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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 10-13-2011, 04:31 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Where to get M54 metric sized vacuum tubing at decent prices?

Q1: Where can we get metric-sized vacuum tubing at a decent price? [Note: It's $300 at Realoem nominal prices!]
Q2: If metric vacuum tubing can't be found at a reasonable price, what American-sized vacuum hose would YOU buy as a replacement?

Note: Following advice to 'bring it in and match it up" ... I think I ended up buying the wrong vacuum tubing from O'Reilly Auto Parts (because two different San Jose Autozone stores didn't have any close vacuum hoses and the hardware stores only had generic rubber hoses ... so the best I could find following advice posted here was TWICE the ID of the original hoses at O'Reilly Auto Parts!)
- M54 vacuum hoses ... what diameter ... what brand ... what material ... what length?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chisum View Post
Take a sample of the hose you need to your local auto parts store they will sell you what you need.
This advice 'sounds' good; but the results are wholly dependent on the (almost depleted) stock at the auto parts stores!


Unfortunately, after following that advice, upon closer inspection back at home, the best the auto parts guys at three stores could do by matching was, apparently, unfortunately, about twice the ID of the original hose.



Here is what I finally bought out of the limited sizes available at the three auto parts stores.
  • Thermoid Windshield Washer & Vacuum Tubing, PN P3340, 5/32 inch ID by 5/16 inch OD by 6 feet long, $3.50 + 8.75% tax


The vacuum hose I'm trying to replace is the following in Realoem:
- 04 VACUUM HOSE BLACK 3,3X1,8 11657803732 $16.43
  • I 'assume' the 3,3 is 3.3 mm outside diameter (OD).
  • Likewise, I 'assume' the 1,8 mm is 1.8 mm inside diameter (ID).
Assuming that, and assuming the ID is vastly more important than the OD, the nearest American hose is NOT the 5/32 inch ID one I purchased; it's actually about half that size. Right?



Looking at this chart, would you say the nearest American hose size is somewhere between 1/16 inch ID and 5/64" ID?


Two fundamental questions:

Q1: Where can we get metric-sized vacuum hoses at a decent price (Realoem prices are astoundingly huge ... it would cost upwards of $300 to replace all the vacuum hoses in the M54 engine):
- Might we be able to list, with pics (realoem diagrams ok) of ALL E39 vacuum lines?

Q2: If metric vacuum hoses can't be found at a reasonable price, what American-sized vacuum hose would YOU buy as a replacement?
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Last edited by bluebee; 11-02-2011 at 08:36 PM. Reason: Tubing is a single material (hoses are multiple materials)
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  #2  
Old 10-13-2011, 05:26 PM
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Fudman Fudman is offline
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I got my vacuum hose from Bill Dodge Auto Group, same place as the DISA valve buy. I paid $11 for a few years back. The good thing is they give you about 36" and you only need about 5" to fix the SAP. The rest of the vacuum line is a hard plastic tube.
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  #3  
Old 10-14-2011, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timarnold View Post
Just for clarification's sake, 3,5x1,8 Vacuum Hose means an ID of 3.5mm with a wall thickness of 1.8mm.
That DOES clarify things. I was wrong in the previous posts about the ID (circled in red below).

The corrected ID is circled in orange below!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
I got my vacuum hose from Bill Dodge Auto Group... about $11 ... about 36"
Do you have a picture of that hose in situ?

Is it braided? (In this thread, Doru says the updated part is braided).

It would be nice to see what it looks like because I could find nothing like it in the auto parts stores.

The closest I could find that had cloth inside the rubber was fuel system hose:


It seems, so far, based on this thread:
- M54 vacuum hoses ... what diameter ... what brand ... what material ... what length?

That what we really want is:
  • About 3 feet of 1/8" ID vacuum tubing (3.5mm ID actual spec)
  • Braided seems to be preferred for strength
  • Silicone seems to be suggested for heat resistance
I could not find ANYTHING like that at the local San Jose auto parts stores.

Here is the best I could find locally:


I'll search online - but - I admit ... I'm really out of my realm when it comes to vacuum hoses.

QUESTION: Does anyone know of a good supplier for the following?
  • 3 feet of 1/8" ID silicone-rubber braided vacuum hose

Last edited by bluebee; 10-14-2011 at 10:10 AM.
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  #4  
Old 10-14-2011, 10:31 AM
uncmozo uncmozo is offline
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McMaster-Carr has the hose you are looking for, but it is not braided, at $1.19 per foot. Part # 52315K121, they are an on-line and catalog industrial supply house.
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2011, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncmozo View Post
McMaster-Carr has the hose you are looking for, but it is not braided, at $1.19 per foot. Part # 52315K121, they are an on-line and catalog industrial supply house.
Having never heard of McMaster-Carr, I googled and found that p/n tubing here:



This nice materials PDF was also found in my search:
- Material Selection Guide for Vacuum/Pressure Control Tubing

Here is the "Executive Summary":
Quote:
  • Good - Neoprene
    • Shore 80A Durometer hardness (softer would be better)
    • 30 feet of 1/8" ID 1/16" wall thickness
    • 10 feet of 1/4" ID 1/8" wall thickness
    • Source: McMaster-Carr < http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/106/0075.pdf>
    • Total Tubing Cost $14.10
    • Use heat stabilized Nylon cable ties $0.03 each
    • Source: McMaster-Carr < http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/106/0678.pdf>
  • Better - Silicone tubing
    • Shore 70A Durometer hardness (the widely available 50A is less desirable)
    • 30 feet of 4mm ID 2mm wall thickness
    • 10 feet of 1/4"ID,1/8"wall thickness (appx. 6mm ID, 3mm wall)
    • Source: McMaster-Carr < http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/106/0076.pdf>
    • Total Tubing Cost $35.70
    • Use Tefzel cable ties $0.51 each
    • Source: McMaster-Carr < http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/106/0678.pdf>
  • Best -Viton tubing
    • 30 feet of 1/8" ID 1/8" wall thickness (Shore 60A Durometer hardness, 1/8" (3.2mm) wall is very thick so the softer Viton is easier to stretch over the fittings)
    • 10 feet of 1/4"ID,1/8"wall thickness (Shore 75A Durometer hardness)
    • Source: McMaster-Carr < http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/106/0075.pdf>
    • Total Tubing Cost $306.00
    • Use wide-band spring steel hose clam
This helps with both the WHERE to get the hose and WHAT to get, so I'll bring some of the information over to this WHAT thread:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > M54 vacuum hoses ... what diameter ... what brand ... what material ... what length?
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > Where to get M54 metric sized vacuum hoses at a decent price (or what American size)?
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2011, 05:39 PM
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A PTFE vacuum hose should be an excellent replacement for the OEM (rubber). It should easily withstand the high temp environment and resist degradation.
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  #7  
Old 10-30-2011, 06:49 PM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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The RX7 article you linked suggests using Viton tubing with 1/8" walls. The catalog number for that is 5119K48. $11 per foot.

The walls on the 52315K121 tubes are only 1/32" thick and the catalog says the compatible fittings are compression fittings.

Using Viton is a good idea because it is resistant to oil.
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  #8  
Old 10-30-2011, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
A PTFE vacuum hose should be an excellent replacement for the OEM (rubber).
Are these our choices, in order, for engine vacuum hose material?
  1. Viton
  2. PTFE
  3. Silicone
  4. Neoprene
This table is from the referenced PDF:


Are these our best choices for suppliers (for three-foot lengths)?
Note: This list & description is from the referenced PDF:
    McMaster-Car

      McMaster-Carr is the place to buy metric and/or English Viton hose by the foot. They will sell to anyone with a credit card. McMaster-Carr has silicone tubing by the foot. They have silicone tubing with Shore 70A Durometer hardness in English and Metric sizes. If you are getting silicone tubing, 70A is better than 50A. 50A is the most widely available and is just too soft. If your supplier doesn't know what the Durometer hardness rating is for the silicone tubing he is%2
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Last edited by bluebee; 11-02-2011 at 08:58 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-31-2011, 02:49 AM
Chisum Chisum is online now
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Part #4 is an assembly made of plastic tubing and vacuum hose. I had to replace it on my car after the plastic got so brittle it crumbled. I got the part from the dealer for $15.

Chisum
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  #10  
Old 10-31-2011, 04:56 AM
granlund granlund is offline
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I recently bought the Thermoid 5/32"x6' for this valve. Fits and works fine so far. We'll see how it stands up to engine heat for prolonged time.
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  #11  
Old 10-31-2011, 09:06 AM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Are these our choices, in order, for engine vacuum hose material?
  1. Viton
  2. PTFE
  3. Silicone
  4. Neoprene
I think Fudman was referring to Viton when he wrote PTFE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
The walls of the BMW OEM tubing appear to be 1.8mm, which is halfway between 1/64" and 5/64". Since 1/8" is 8/64", that's a lot thicker (relatively).

I wonder ... Does the thickness really matter for our purpose?

Does it matter that the 52315K121 tubing is half as thin?

Are we using compression fittings?
As best I can tell the 52315K121 tubing is both hard and thin-walled. That's why you need to use compression fittings with it. I assume that it's also somewhat stiff.

I don't have any experience evaluating the specifications for the tubing, but it seems to me that a more flexible hose with a thicker wall would work better. Something that can bend tightly and stretch enough to use with the barb connectors on our cars. Maybe 1/8" Viton 60A hose with 1/16" thick walls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I'd say we only need about three feet, in total (would you agree?).
Yes. Note McMaster sells in certain lengths.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Is oil our bigger enemy? Or heat?
Heat is more of an issue for vacuum hoses. Silicone hoses degrade when exposed to oil, so Viton would be a better choice if the hose is going to get covered with oil.

Viton is probably overkill for the application, but it would appear to be durable.
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  #12  
Old 10-31-2011, 11:29 AM
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Belmetric (on the Internet) also carries a large selection of different types of metric hose.
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  #13  
Old 10-31-2011, 12:26 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
As best I can tell the 52315K121 tubing is both hard and thin-walled. That's why you need to use compression fittings with it.
While I understand our 'barbed fittings', I don't understand what a compression fitting is.

Googling didn't help all that much ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
a more flexible hose with a thicker wall would work better. Something that can bend tightly and stretch enough to use with the barb connectors on our cars. Maybe 1/8" Viton 60A hose with 1/16" thick walls.
I still wonder (openly, aloud, without prior conviction), whether to recommend ordering 3 feet of 1/8" Viton or Silicone or PEFT (i.e., Teflon) or Neoprene for our purposes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
Heat is more of an issue for vacuum hoses.
I agree.

That favors, I think, PTFE, Viton, & Silicone over Neoprene.

Given Viton is expensive, that would favor PTFE & Silicone in the penultimate cut.

The question is how to choose between the two (PTFE & Silicone)?

It's weird, but I can't find Silicone in the McMaster-Carr tubing choices. Can you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
it would appear to be durable.
I'm going to have to better understand the 'durability' indexes (Shore A measurements) in order to help with the selection of the right hoses to order.

All I know right now is the higher the number, the harder the hose.

This is what (I think) we need, in the final analysis:
  • Recommended hoses:
    • Material = ? (Viton, PTFE, Silicone, or Neoprene, or ?)
    • Length = 3 feet (confirmed)
    • ID = 1/8" (confirmed)
    • Thickness = between 1/16" & 5/64" (does thickness matter?)
    • Hardness = Shore 60A is good (50A is too soft, 75A is hard, but OK)
    • Supplier = McMaster-Carr (confirmed, or equivalent)
    • Part Number = ? (depends on material chosen)
      • Norprene,61A (soft), -75F to +275F, PN: 51075K22, barbed fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/16" thick, $0.72/ft (minimum length = 10 feet) ~= $7
      • PTFE, 50D-65D (hard), -450F to +500F, PN: 52315K121, compression fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/32" thick, $1.19/ft (minimum length = 10 feet) ~= $12
      • Gum rubbber, 45A (very soft), -70F to +180F, PN: 5543K41, barbed fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/8" thick, $2.21/ft (minimum length = 10 feet) ~= $22
      • Viton, 60A (soft), -15F to +400F, PN: 5119K48, barbed fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/8" thick, $11/ft (minimum length = 2 feet & 5 feet) ~= $44
      • Silicone,
Here is a McMaster-Carr tubing calculator.
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Last edited by bluebee; 10-31-2011 at 01:00 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-01-2011, 06:01 PM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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Sorry, I wasn't clear.

The hard, thin-walled tubing 52315K121 is inappropriate for our use because it is supposed to be used with compression fittings. We definitely don't want tubing that is so stiff that it will not stretch over the barbed fittings.

When I wrote that Viton tubing would be more durable, I meant that Viton tubing would last longer because it is unaffected by heat and oil.

I ordered and received 5' of the 5119K41 Viton tubing 1/8" ID, 1/4" OD 1/16" wall Shore 60A. It is about as flexible as silicone tubing. I replaced the piece of tubing from the SAP valve to the hard plastic pipe under the oxygen sensor connector. This tubing is a good tight fit for that application that is listed as 3.3mm. Maybe a little tight on the hard tubing, but that's probably good. It also fits well on the lower part of the "F" connector that goes to the FPR, which is listed as 3.5mm tubing.

Looks to me as though 1/8" tubing will work for both 3.3mm and 3.5mm if it is flexible enough.

I'll replace all the 3.3mm and 3.5mm tubing I can find with the Viton tubing and let you know how much tubing I used.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
52315K121 is inappropriate for our use because it is supposed to be used with compression fittings.
I was wondering about the need for compression fittings with that PTFE tubing. Moving forward, I'll remove PN 52315K121 tubing from our short list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
I ordered and received 5' of the 5119K41 Viton tubing 1/8" ID, 1/4" OD 1/16" wall Shore 60A.
This is good information.

Adding it to the short list, we get (in price order for at least 3' of tubing):
  • $7 ===> Norprene,61A (soft), -75F to +275F, PN: 51075K22, barbed fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/16" thick, $0.72/ft (minimum length = 10 feet)
  • $21 ==> Viton, Shore 60A (soft), -15F to +400F, PN: 5119K41, 1/8" ID, 1/16" thick, $4.19/ft, available length >= 3' = 5 feet)
  • $22 ==> Gum rubber, 45A (very soft), -70F to +180F, PN: 5543K41, barbed fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/8" thick, $2.21/ft (minimum length = 10 feet)
  • $55 ===> Viton, Shore 60A (soft), -15F to +400F, PN: 5119K48, barbed fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/8" thick, $11/ft, available length >= 3' = 5 feet)
  • $?? ===> Silicone, ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
This tubing is a good tight fit for that application that is listed as 3.3mm. It also fits well on the lower part of the "F" connector that goes to the FPR, which is listed as 3.5mm
This is GREAT empirical data! Just what we need (thanks for adding value!).

One caveat: Since Realoem is wrong on these diagrams in lots of places, I'm not so confident that the 3.3 mm and 3.5 mm are actually correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
1/8" tubing will work for both 3.3mm and 3.5mm if it is flexible enough
Personally, I suspect that the two different values are misprints in the diagrams. I don't know that. I just see a lot of other mistakes, so, I wonder if these values are correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
I'll replace all the 3.3mm and 3.5mm tubing I can find with the Viton tubing and let you know how much tubing I used.
Please do!

At the moment, we're assuming 3 feet of hose plus at least two endcaps (i.e., the CCV vacuum port, and the manifold vacuum port next to the sucking jet pump).

Knowing exactly how much hose is required would add value to the tribal database that others, for years on end, will benefit from!

In fact, people are already asking that question:
- What size is this hose?, by ill_kuma
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Last edited by bluebee; 11-01-2011 at 11:48 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-02-2011, 06:13 PM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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I finished replacing the vacuum tubing between the SAP electric valve and the SAP Valve and the tubing between the lower nipple of the "F" connector and the hard tubing that goes to the FPR. That was all of the vacuum tubing I could find on the topside of my 2001 530i M54.

I used the 1/8" Viton ID tubing with 1/8" thick walls. It was a tight fit on the hard plastic tubes, but workable. I don't think you'd want anything stiffer unless it was just a little larger inside.

I started with 5 feet of tubing, and I had 2.5 feet of tubing left over. I also a short piece where I measured wrong.

It was difficult to remove the old tubing off. I had to cut it off the hard plastic tubing. I found it easiest to split the tubing with a knife and peel it off. The tubing going to the electric valve was hard to reach. You have to work blind. Also, I found that the hard plastic tubing that runs from the SAP valve along the valve cover was curved around the back. It was not two pieces of hard plastic tubing connected with flexible tubing as the diagram seems to show.

The old tubing was intact, but snapped when I tried to pull it off. It was functional, but deteriorating.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:07 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
That was all of the vacuum tubing I could find on the topside of my 2001 530i M54
Thank you for reporting back to the team to help the rest of us learn!

How did you get to the back of the engine? Was that easy or hard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
1/8" Viton ID tubing with 1/8" thick walls. It was a tight fit on the hard plastic tubes, but workable. I don't think you'd want anything stiffer unless it was just a little larger inside.
This is great to know.
a) The Viton 1/8 by 1/8 works ... and ...
b) It's about as hard as you want to go (Shore 60A)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
I started with 5 feet of tubing, and I had 2.5 feet of tubing left over.
Looks like three feet is a good length to specify (even though you can't get 3 feet at McMaster-Carr ... you have to get either 2 feet or 5 feet).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
I found it easiest to split the tubing with a knife and peel it off.
Good hint. I did mine in the Autozone parking lot with the screwdriver in the trunk toolkit and it was a disaster. The knife split is a better idea.

Here is my ruination of the end of my F-valve 1/8" hose:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
The tubing going to the electric valve was hard to reach. You have to work blind.
Did you remove the engine cover or the cabin air filter intakes? That's what I plan on doing to get access to that area when I do mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
the hard plastic tubing that runs from the SAP valve along the valve cover was curved around the back
Oh oh. Yet another error in the diagrams!
- Engine => Vacuum control => AIR PUMP F VACUUM CONTROL
The diagram shows it as a straight piece!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
The old tubing was intact, but snapped when I tried to pull it off. It was functional, but deteriorating.
Given the realoem nominal price for that curved pipe, we may need to find a good supplier for it too!

My plastic tubing was the same way. About a half inch or so broke off inside the SAP valve hose on the passenger side of the engine.

You can see the broken snippet of vacuum pipe inside the vacuum tubing at the left in my picture below:

Last edited by bluebee; 11-03-2011 at 07:40 AM. Reason: Clarified the description.
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  #18  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:12 AM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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How did you get to the back of the engine? Was that easy or hard?
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Did you remove the engine cover or the cabin air filter intakes? That's what I plan on doing to get access to that area when I do mine.
To access the tubing connected to the electrically operated vacuum valve, I removed the left part of the engine cover, the left cabin filter housing and the left cabin air duct. You still can't see the valve, but you might be able to wedge a small mirror on there so you can see what you're doing. I just worked blind.

On my car, there's a hose with a rubber mount that slides over a bracket attached to the intake manifold. I removed that hose from the bracket for better access.

The electric valve was oriented differently than the diagram. It is actually rotated 180 degrees in the vertical plane so that the tube that connects the electric valve to the intake manifold is actually on the right side and the tube that connects to the SAP valve is on the left side. A word of caution - I had to cut the tubing off the electric valve without being able to see the knife. I positioned the knife carefully, made certain that I wouldn't damage anything if the knife slipped, kept my other hand out of the area when I cut the tubing, and I cut slowly and carefully.

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Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
This is great to know.
a) The Viton 1/8 by 1/8 works ... and ...
b) It's about as hard as you want to go (Shore 60A)
Well, you could use a stiffer tubing if you can find a closer fit. In other words, the tubing has to be flexible enough to stretch over the fittings and hard plastic tube. The 1/8" Viton tubing I used was just flexible enough to fit over the 3.3mm hard plastic tubing. I don't think Viton tubing with thicker walls would work.

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Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Looks like three feet is a good length to specify (even though you can't get 3 feet at McMaster-Carr ... you have to get either 2 feet or 5 feet).
A little extra is a good idea. As a practical point, replace the "hard to get to" tubing first. If you run short of tubing for some reason, you don't have to remove components to get to finish the job later. And, of course, replace one piece at a time so you don't confuse the routing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Oh oh. Yet another error in the diagrams!
- Engine => Vacuum control => AIR PUMP F VACUUM CONTROL
The diagram shows it as a straight piece!


Given the realoem nominal price for that curved pipe, we may need to find a good supplier for it too!

My plastic tubing was the same way. About a half inch or so broke off inside the SAP valve on the passenger side of the engine.

You can see it inside the hose at the left in my picture below:
That piece might be worth buying from the dealer. It runs along the valve cover under the wiring connectors for the oxygen sensors. So it needs to be thin and heat resistant. But you could run flexible tubing all the way from the electric valve to the SAP valve if you want. Or you could buy just straight tubing and use flexible tubing at the curves as the diagram shows.
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Old 11-03-2011, 07:48 AM
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To access the tubing connected to the electrically operated vacuum valve, I removed the left part of the engine cover, the left cabin filter housing and the left cabin air duct.
Left as in driver's side? Or left as in passenger side?

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Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
The electric valve was oriented differently than the diagram.
Good to know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
replace the "hard to get to" tubing first.
After what you said about the blind knife, that makes sense!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
But you could run flexible tubing all the way from the electric valve to the SAP valve if you want.
Having never seen a picture or diagram that shows this properly, may I ask HOW the rigid curved vacuum pipe can connect to the electrical valve WITHOUT a stretch of tubing in between?

It's HARD plastic so it could only connect to the electrical valve in back of the engine via a rubber fitting or a compression fitting, right?

In the realoem diagram, I see what looks like a slight bulb at the end of the electrical valve fitting. Does it press fit over that and therefor the hard plastic 'distends' a bit? If so, that may be the cause of vacuum leaks.

Q: How does the vacuum pipe connect to the electrical valve?

NOTE:
- Pipe = rigid, single material
- Tubing = flexible, single material
- Hose = flexible, multiple material
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Old 11-03-2011, 08:28 AM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Left as in driver's side? Or left as in passenger side?
Driver's side. By convention, if you stand behind the car and look to the front, the left side is the same as you left side.


[QUOTE=bluebee;6418439]Having never seen a picture or diagram that shows this properly, may I ask HOW the rigid curved vacuum pipe can connect to the electrical valve WITHOUT a stretch of tubing in between?

It's HARD plastic so it could only connect to the electrical valve in back of the engine via a rubber fitting or a compression fitting, right?[QUOTE]

Right, the soft tubing is the connector between the hard tubing and the components. That's why the hard tubing OD is the same size as the soft tubing ID.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
In the realoem diagram, I see what looks like a slight bulb at the end of the electrical valve fitting. Does it press fit over that and therefor the hard plastic 'distends' a bit? If so, that may be the cause of vacuum leaks.

Q: How does the vacuum pipe connect to the electrical valve?

NOTE:
- Pipe = rigid, single material
- Tubing = flexible, single material
- Hose = flexible, multiple material
That bulb you see in the diagram is is a "barb" which stretches the soft tubing a bit and makes it more secure. If you have a hard pipe that you need to connect to a barbed fitting, you use soft tubing as the connector.

So for this particular situation, the SAP valve is conned to the hard pipe with a short piece of tubing. the hard pipe runs on the right side of the head toward the back of the engine. Then it turns toward the left side of the engine and continues toward the electric valve. The hard pipe is connected to a short piece of tubing that goes under the valve to the fitting which is pointing straight down. The other fitting of the valve is attached to a vacuum fitting on the back of the intake manifold with a short piece of tubing, a check valve, and another short piece of tubing.
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:42 AM
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SAP valve ... a short piece of tubing ... hard pipe ...Then it turns toward the left side of the engine and continues toward the electric valve... a short piece of tubing...to the fitting which is pointing straight down.
I think I got it. See annotation below.
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:53 AM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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I replaced the parts in red with 1/8" flexible tubing. The yellow parts are 3.3mm hard pipe. I colored the 7mm end cap in blue to avoid confusion.
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Old 11-03-2011, 01:06 PM
wegotseven wegotseven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Having never heard of McMaster-Carr, I googled and found that p/n tubing here:



This nice materials PDF was also found in my search:
- Material Selection Guide for Vacuum/Pressure Control Tubing

Here is the "Executive Summary":
This helps with both the WHERE to get the hose and WHAT to get, so I'll bring some of the information over to this WHAT thread:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > M54 vacuum hoses ... what diameter ... what brand ... what material ... what length?
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > Where to get M54 metric sized vacuum hoses at a decent price (or what American size)?
I ordered that one above but it doesn't fit into SAP.... the hole is too small. what should I do or what shoud I get?? any help??

Last edited by wegotseven; 11-03-2011 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 11-03-2011, 01:29 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
I replaced the parts in red with 1/8" flexible tubing. The yellow parts are 3.3mm hard pipe. I colored the 7mm end cap in blue to avoid confusion.
EXCELLENT Annotations! No further questions, your honor!

You are justly in the ranks of those who add real value to the team by making things clear as day!

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Old 11-04-2011, 05:36 PM
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Based on suggestions in this E46 thread:
- E46 (1999 - 2006) > M54 engine vacuum tubing - what size, what material, what length, what supplier, etc.

We can add ECS Tuning to the list of suppliers for OEM & Silicone tubing (but they don't carry the necessary vacuum endcaps).

The web
lookup for ECS Tuning is fraught with problems, so allow me to simply point to the various hoses that may be of interest for the M54 engine:

$11.66/meter, manufacturer Genuine BMW, Mfg Part# 11727545323, ECS Tuning part number ES#26814, Vacuum Hose (3.5mm ID x 1.8mm thick x 1 meter long)


$13.30, 11657803732 > ES#26414, length & size not listed

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