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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 11-02-2011, 09:40 AM
hollandog hollandog is offline
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I've been lurking in the F10 forum with concerns for the EPS issue.

The folks there said the x-drive model still uses hydraulic steering. The RWD F10 uses EPS.
I hope the F30 will be the same also.

I'm planning to switch to the new F30 when my G37's lease is up mainly for BMW's steering feedback and feel.
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  #27  
Old 11-02-2011, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
What are you going to get instead? All the cars in this class will eventually have electronic steering and 4 cylinder engines. Audi has had turbo 4's for a very long time and the next C series Mercedes certainly will have EPS. The new E series has it.

CAFE standards are driving all of this.
Golf r
Same $ 190kw 4wd much better look
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  #28  
Old 11-02-2011, 12:48 PM
LS2 MN6 LS2 MN6 is offline
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Germans (culturally) love Technology. This is why things like iDrive, COMMAND, and MMI are being driven by BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Audi.

Expect more tech in your car. When I told my German Uncle that people in the US didn't like iDrive his response was "Why? It's clearly superior technology." The same is true of EPS which has been on European cars for the past 7 years (2004 was the begining of major EPS usage in BMW's).

I'm going to bet that the xDrive doesn't have a hydraulic unit, unless it has Active Steering. The only reason to not put EPS in a AWD car is if you can't fit the motor on the steering rack because the front differential gets in the way. Active Steering right now is the exception as I think there is only one model of ZF EPS that uses both EPS and Active Steering. Although I expect this to change.

Whatever doesn't have EPS now, will have it by 2015. HPS is dead.
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  #29  
Old 11-02-2011, 12:58 PM
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Inline Sixer Inline Sixer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
What are you going to get instead? All the cars in this class will eventually have electronic steering and 4 cylinder engines. Audi has had turbo 4's for a very long time and the next C series Mercedes certainly will have EPS. The new E series has it.

CAFE standards are driving all of this.
Porsche Cayman.
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  #30  
Old 11-02-2011, 01:30 PM
hollandog hollandog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS2 MN6 View Post
Germans (culturally) love Technology. This is why things like iDrive, COMMAND, and MMI are being driven by BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Audi.

Expect more tech in your car. When I told my German Uncle that people in the US didn't like iDrive his response was "Why? It's clearly superior technology." The same is true of EPS which has been on European cars for the past 7 years (2004 was the begining of major EPS usage in BMW's).

I'm going to bet that the xDrive doesn't have a hydraulic unit, unless it has Active Steering. The only reason to not put EPS in a AWD car is if you can't fit the motor on the steering rack because the front differential gets in the way. Active Steering right now is the exception as I think there is only one model of ZF EPS that uses both EPS and Active Steering. Although I expect this to change.

Whatever doesn't have EPS now, will have it by 2015. HPS is dead.
I see people over the F10 forum much prefer the xDrive with the hydraulic unit than the RWD EPS.
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  #31  
Old 11-02-2011, 02:00 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by SilverX3 View Post
Golf r
Same $ 190kw 4wd much better look
Nice car but a step down in luxury from BMW, Mercedes and Audi. I looked at a GTI when I shopped for my last car. It was a bit too small for me with a baby, mostly lacking storage space.
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  #32  
Old 11-02-2011, 02:01 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by Inline Sixer View Post
Porsche Cayman.
Apples and oranges. Hell of a nice car but it's a sports car vs a family sedan.
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  #33  
Old 11-02-2011, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by LS2 MN6 View Post
is if you can't fit the motor on the steering rack because the front differential gets in the way. Active Steering right now is the exception as I think there is only one model of ZF EPS that uses both EPS and Active Steering. Although I expect this to change.

Whatever doesn't have EPS now, will have it by 2015. HPS is dead.
if that's the case I hand on to my HPS cars with true manual box
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  #34  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:16 PM
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Inline Sixer Inline Sixer is offline
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Apples and oranges. Hell of a nice car but it's a sports car vs a family sedan.
Yup. Us family guy enthusiasts are doomed.
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  #35  
Old 11-02-2011, 05:24 PM
LS2 MN6 LS2 MN6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollandog View Post
I see people over the F10 forum much prefer the xDrive with the hydraulic unit than the RWD EPS.
If that's the case it's one driven 100% by packaging. Expect that to be rectified by the refresh.

The only reason I say HPS is dead is that the companies that supply most high end HPS units (TRW and ZF) are shutting down HPS assembly lines as products go into retirement and replacing them with EPS lines. Neither of these companies is bidding out new HPS work, unless it's ultra low volume and/or uses existing products (basically no one is going to invest in new HPS equipment, but if you want to keep running the existing lines, be our guest).

As much as I personally dislike a lot of things about EPS, it's the future so we better hope that the companies get it right sooner rather than later!

Last edited by LS2 MN6; 11-02-2011 at 05:27 PM.
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  #36  
Old 11-03-2011, 08:00 AM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Originally Posted by PhilH View Post
The new 6 Series' steering is getting bad reviews too. This one really hit home with me when I read it.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
It's TRUE...the "rogue faction" are in fact "undercover agents" from Lexus...who's mission is to sabotage BMW in EVERY way, design, performance, and reliability. They have been infiltrating BMW over the last few years in every dept. of the company. Game over.
The "project leader" for the new M3 is the "Donnie Brasco" of the automotive industry...special agent Blow Piston from Lexus. The IS-F will only benefit form the M3's demise

Last edited by 16n69; 11-03-2011 at 08:22 AM.
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  #37  
Old 11-03-2011, 01:08 PM
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Regarding the F10 5-Series EPS, I drove a German-market 525d back-to-back with my U.S. 335i in Munich. The steering was a huge letdown compared to my E92's. Light, numb and devoid of feel. Ironically the E60 was never praised much for its steering feel either.

As for the F30, I definitely say wait and see. BMW's own MINI has EPS which has gotten a lot of critical acclaim for its steering feel and response. I'm going to think positive and assume that the engineers in Munich are aware that the current E9x has among the best steering feel of any car on the road today (under say $80K of course). I think they would feel the same disappointment as the enthusiast community to not retain that crown.
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  #38  
Old 11-03-2011, 04:04 PM
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[QUOTE=jwac;6419123]Regarding the F10 5-Series EPS, I drove a German-market 525d back-to-back with my U.S. 335i in Munich. The steering was a huge letdown compared to my E92's. Light, numb and devoid of feel. Ironically the E60 was never praised much for its steering feel either.

QUOTE]

+1

I drove one just last week and felt like driving a Toyota
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  #39  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwac View Post
Regarding the F10 5-Series EPS, I drove a German-market 525d back-to-back with my U.S. 335i in Munich. The steering was a huge letdown compared to my E92's. Light, numb and devoid of feel. Ironically the E60 was never praised much for its steering feel either.
I would have to disagree. I have the E90 and F10 and earlier compared their steering feel together with my E46. The F10's steering is not far off. It's easy to be influenced by the more recent mag reviews. The earlier reviews did not criticize the F10's steering. The weakness of the F10 is more of its suspension not being tight/stiff enough.
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  #40  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:44 PM
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I'd argue the S4 has a better steering/driving feel. It uses the servotronic steering from the M3. But it starts at $46k. The 3 series definitely had an edge in low speed situations, but the S4 is far more taught at 70 and above.

The 3 was punitive in parking lots. The S4 is hefty where it counts - at the speeds its meant to be driven at. It's also got the sport/comfort/dynamic setting, accessible via a button rather than a computer menu (in the M3).

Last edited by westwest888; 11-03-2011 at 09:46 PM.
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  #41  
Old 11-03-2011, 11:31 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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I'd argue the S4 has a better steering/driving feel.
You can argue but you are wrong.
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  #42  
Old 11-04-2011, 08:28 AM
hollandog hollandog is offline
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Originally Posted by LS2 MN6 View Post
If that's the case it's one driven 100% by packaging. Expect that to be rectified by the refresh.

The only reason I say HPS is dead is that the companies that supply most high end HPS units (TRW and ZF) are shutting down HPS assembly lines as products go into retirement and replacing them with EPS lines. Neither of these companies is bidding out new HPS work, unless it's ultra low volume and/or uses existing products (basically no one is going to invest in new HPS equipment, but if you want to keep running the existing lines, be our guest).

As much as I personally dislike a lot of things about EPS, it's the future so we better hope that the companies get it right sooner rather than later!
I get your point.

I just got my latest copy of Car and Driver and they reviewed the 2013 M5.
They stated in the review that the new M5 still uses HPS.
The xDrive is also using HPS.
Only the RWD F10 is equipped with EPS.

I hope this will stay the same for the F30.
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  #43  
Old 11-04-2011, 08:42 AM
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The new 5 Series got the overwhelmingly panned electronic steering, so I'm pretty sure the new 3 Series will get it too.

My rule is forget what the critics say in the auto magazines. Just get out there and test drive one yourself next February. You may just like it.
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Last edited by hpowders; 11-04-2011 at 08:44 AM.
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  #44  
Old 11-04-2011, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
I would have to disagree. I have the E90 and F10 and earlier compared their steering feel together with my E46. The F10's steering is not far off. It's easy to be influenced by the more recent mag reviews.
Matter of opinion. If anything I felt the reviews exaggerated the F10's numb steering. I've also driven the 535i and 550i for about 45 minutes each at a dealer event. To me it's a night and day difference with the E9x.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westwest888 View Post
I'd argue the S4 has a better steering/driving feel. It uses the servotronic steering from the M3.
I attended an Audi event where I got to drive the S5 6MT around the track at Infineon Raceway. Yes the steering feel was quite good - I was surprised and impressed considering all the other Audis I drove that day - but I don't think it was any better than a regular 'ol 335i's, much less an M3. I'd be driving an S5 right now if the residual values weren't so beyond terrible.
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  #45  
Old 11-04-2011, 04:00 PM
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I think part of the problem with the F10 is it's significantly heavier and has a longer wheelbase than the e60, so that alone will affect the steering feel somewhat. The EPS probably numbed it a bit more. The F30 will have a slightly longer wheelbase than the e90 but will actually be a little lighter, so not sure how that will equate, I'm leaving an open mind that it might work out pretty well.
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  #46  
Old 11-06-2011, 01:14 AM
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This is the new demographic for BMWs, people with money, who like heated leather seats, Zagat restaurants in the NAV, and automatic transmissions
It's people with money and those who want to project that they do. The enthusiast community on e90 and bimmerfest is the 1-3%.
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  #47  
Old 11-06-2011, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jwac View Post
I attended an Audi event where I got to drive the S5 6MT around the track at Infineon Raceway. Yes the steering feel was quite good - I was surprised and impressed considering all the other Audis I drove that day - but I don't think it was any better than a regular 'ol 335i's, much less an M3. I'd be driving an S5 right now if the residual values weren't so beyond terrible.
I feel like the leasing company calculated the residuals wrong because it's hard to find a used S5 for under $50k right now. But if you can't afford to do anything except lease, I guess you're stuck with whatever the bean counters tell you.

The early S5's didn't have the sports differential and steering combo they put on the S4. I think it may have started with the 2011 models.

I noticed the 2013 S5 (LCI refresh) was being advertised with some sort of new electromechanical steering like BMW is pushing. TBD if it's better or worse. They cited the same reason - fuel economy. This was a european model though.
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  #48  
Old 11-06-2011, 11:01 PM
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I feel like the leasing company calculated the residuals wrong because it's hard to find a used S5 for under $50k right now.
I doubt it's a mistake, I've been watching them since the car debuted in 2008 and they've always been that low. It's a simply choice by Audi Financial Services to charge the customer more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by westwest888 View Post
But if you can't afford to do anything except lease, I guess you're stuck with whatever the bean counters tell you.
It's a business decision since I keep my cars for 2 years, not a matter of affordability. I'm not going to pay M3 money for a car that is competitively matched with a 335i/is.
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  #49  
Old 11-07-2011, 09:13 AM
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hpowders hpowders is offline
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Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
It's people with money and those who want to project that they do. The enthusiast community on e90 and bimmerfest is the 1-3%.
Show me the stats that prove 1-3%. I assumed it would be less.
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  #50  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:17 AM
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Check out f25 x3 threads
look like eps has quality issues
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