Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 10-27-2011, 06:02 AM
PsychDoc1 PsychDoc1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,055
Mein Auto: 535xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunsBMW View Post
Did you guys know that some company or manufactures send money to consumer reports to rate thier product higher then others. I heard that on 60 minutes one day
Care to prove that? I just googled "Consumer Reports corrupt" and came up with zilch.

CU may be off base about a lot of things but I've never thought of them as anything but above board.

To make a claim like that without any form of proof is simply not fair.
__________________
Prior
Acura TL, Lexus ES (2), Volvo S70 GLT, Volvo 850 Turbo, Lexus LS, M-B 300E, BMW 735i, Audi 5000
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-27-2011, 06:30 AM
w5lx's Avatar
w5lx w5lx is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: North Texas
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 975
Mein Auto: 2008 528i/2007 328i Coupe
From the Car Show Pro weekly newsletter published today:

"Car Pro Show Family,

Many of you have asked me about the new Consumer Reports reliability survey that came out a couple of days ago. If you listen to the Car Pro Show often, I always tell you that Consumer Reports loves to grab controversial headlines and that if they say something about cars, it's probably wrong."
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-27-2011, 06:35 AM
Stevej2001 Stevej2001 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: California
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 420
Mein Auto: '11 535i
Quote:
Originally Posted by AggieKnight View Post
Keep in mind how they do the ratings - any problem gets a tick in the negative reliability bubble. BMWs (and Mercs and Audis) are complicated machines so they are more likely to have minor issues.

I'm not sure CR is structured to differentiate between minor annoyances and "the car left me on the side of the road".

I find CR good for appliances and TVs, but not really useful for cars.
As I recall, there's no differentiation between minor annoyances and total failures. Just did you have to get your (transmission, brakes, steering) repaired in the past year?
__________________
Steve Jacobs

2011 535i imperial blue/beige/sp, premium 1 and 2, ventilated seats, top view camera
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-27-2011, 06:58 AM
ksoze ksoze is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 607
Mein Auto: 2011 E93 M3
Although I also find many CR reviews somewhat suspect or not what I see in the real world for some items I am knowledgeable about, if they had instead given the 550iX Car of the Year, I suspect there would be a lot of touting of that here. It's human nature.

As far as CR's non-partisan charter, they are at least pretending not be influenced by the manufacturers via their policy on ads, etc. A car magazine issue with 20 Ford ads that then gives Ford car of the year always leaves a bad taste...
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-27-2011, 07:01 AM
planet's Avatar
planet planet is offline
Explore the space!
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 490
Mein Auto: On order: F10 535i
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
What if you were a dishwasher or coffee machine enthusiast, would feel the same way?
/me raises hand.

I'm a bit of a coffee and espresso person. Their reviews of coffee machines are not for people who like good coffee and espresso.
__________________
F10 '11 (August 2011 build) 535i Titanium Silver on Oyster/Black Dakota, Antracite wood. Sport w/SAT,
DHP, IAS, Premium 1 & 2, HUD, Convenience, Driver Assist, Vent Seats, 4-zone, Folding Seats, Apps.

Retired: E46 '02 330i Steel Blue on Black. Oct '01 - Jul '04.
BMW CCA, Golden Gate Chapter
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 10-27-2011, 07:53 AM
GunsBMW's Avatar
GunsBMW GunsBMW is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Meridian Ms
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 371
Mein Auto: 2011 535i M sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychDoc1 View Post
Care to prove that? I just googled "Consumer Reports corrupt" and came up with zilch.

CU may be off base about a lot of things but I've never thought of them as anything but above board.

To make a claim like that without any form of proof is simply not fair.
I was just BSing and and see who I can get a rise out of. But at this day and age and the way the economy is going, I wouldnt doubt it
__________________
2011 535i Space Grey M sport/ Black Nappa with Aluminum Hexagon trim/Premium 2 package/Cold Weather/Premium Audio/Nav/BMW Apps
Retired: 2009 528i sport/premium package
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-27-2011, 09:42 AM
L1Trauma L1Trauma is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New Orleans
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 159
Mein Auto: '11 550i -> '15 M3
You'd know they were corrupted if their quotes/blurbs started showing up in ads all over the place.

My issue is that the survey is measuring the preferences of different types of car buyers; ie, I notice the tiny rattle my old M3 made from day 1 that BMW could never find, but a Honda Civic buyer may not ever notice minor issues. I don't know how they control for this, if at all.

I'm happy to see some pretense at objectivity, however; the problem with subjective reviews is the bias inherent in them can make their conclusions almost totally worthless. I find nothing more humorous than reading reviews of wine and audio equipment for the sheer amount of sh*t being shoveled. For example, the human tongue can differentiate 3-4 flavors untrained, and maybe 5-6 trained. Wine blurbs almost always list 7+ flavors. And audio reviews? hehehehehe... how's the soundstage on that HDMI cable? $2000 for a 1 mm RCA interconnect brings out the warmth in the French horns....

It's funny how Porsche can be so high in some quality surveys and so low in this CR reliability survey... would love to see the data that drives them.
__________________
-- Dave BMWCCA# 321955
2011 550i AW/Black Nappa M-Sport w/anthracite wood, Premium pkg 2, dynamic handling pkg, conv pkg, active vent. seat pkg, split rear seat, IAS, side/top Cameras, active cruise, 4zone climate, HUD, BMW Apps, ED 7/11
Mods: V1 hardwire, Huper Optik 45%, MORR 19" VS8.2 Sig Black w/PSSs, OEM CF spoiler, CF fender markers, OEM trunk mat OMG

Last edited by L1Trauma; 10-27-2011 at 09:43 AM. Reason: clarity
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:44 AM
swajames swajames is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 992
Mein Auto: Jaguar F-Type V8 S
In fairness, CR is the only publication which actually (and anonymously) buys the cars it reviews, directly from dealers, in the way that we would buy them. It is also the only auto publication that owns its own test track. Two of their three highest rated cars from their test drives are the BMW 135i 6MT and the 911 Carrera S 6MT - they are not just recommending appliances. Either way, and in that spirit, that the 550 might have not have had the best performance in the BMW range doesn't of course make it a bad car, it's all relative and the car will have performed better, no doubt, than the higher scoring models from some others. Still, data like this is informative but not authoritative, and it won't surprise anyone to see that a new model in its first year has some tething issues.

CR's results do carry a reasonable amount of weight for the reasons noted. There is less of an agenda with CR than with most other organizations who do accept advertising dollars. CR does not. Interestingly, in the link provided in the OP, CR themselves caution against jumping to conclusions based on limited data, and they addressed many of the common accusations leveled against them, i.e. that not all models are strong in an otherwise strong brand, and also that the range from the worst performing car to the highest performing car for a given manufacturer taken in isolation can be distortive (the best performing Jeep, for example, might perform worse than the lowest scoring car from another manufacturer). Either way, some folks here are, I feel, shooting the messenger and for a number of reasons I don't feel that's really justified.

As for the question raised as to why Porsche dropped in these rankings, it's a statistical quirk. There was only enough data for CR to rate two models, the 911 and the new Cayenne. The 911 scored very highly and is a recommended pick, the new Cayenne scored less well and it alone had enough issues and reports to trash the rating. Take the Cayenne off the table and Porsche would have retained its place in the table, with it the score dropped.
__________________
2014 Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Range Rover HSE Lux, Orkney Gray, Sand interior
Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible, Midnight Blue, 6-Speed
BMW 550i, BMW 545i

Last edited by swajames; 10-27-2011 at 11:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:48 AM
dunderhi's Avatar
dunderhi dunderhi is online now
0-60 in 4 secs or less!
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,706
Mein Auto: '13 X5M, 650xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
As for the question raised as to why Porsche dropped in these rankings, it's a statistical quirk. There was only enough data for CR to rate two models, the 911 and the new Cayenne. The 911 scored very highly and is a recommended pick, the new Cayenne scored less well and it alone had enough issues and reports to trash the rating. Take the Cayenne off the table and Porsche would have retained its place in the table, with it the score dropped.
Where's the statistical quirk? The number selling Porsche model is near the bottom of the reliability rankings. Just because a lower volume model received a Recommend rating doesn't mean Porsche deserves to be near the top. The ratings reflect problems per car per manufacturer and not problems per the highest rated car per manufacturer.
__________________


2013 X5M ........ 2013 650xi ...... 2011 550xi (ret) 2011 335d (ret)
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-28-2011, 04:32 AM
BobRBob's Avatar
BobRBob BobRBob is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 585
Mein Auto: 2011 528i
It's not their intentions or integrity or the process they follow that's the problem.
It's the conclusions they reach and the resulting product recommendation.
__________________
Current BMW
2011 BMW 528i
Cashmere Silver/Black Dakota
Ash wood trim
Sport Package
Premium Package
Nav
Premium Sound/Sirius
Comfort Seats



Prior BMWs
2001 530i Sport (deceased)
Cosmos Black

Other
2005 Subaru Outback 2.5XT
1977 Corvette 383 Stroker
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-28-2011, 12:08 PM
swajames swajames is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 992
Mein Auto: Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Where's the statistical quirk? The number selling Porsche model is near the bottom of the reliability rankings. Just because a lower volume model received a Recommend rating doesn't mean Porsche deserves to be near the top. The ratings reflect problems per car per manufacturer and not problems per the highest rated car per manufacturer.
The rather obvious point is that with just two models in the sample size, the impact of one model's scores is much greater and can have a disproportionate impact, positively or negatively. With so many BMW's featuring in the sample, the 550i as the lowest scoring BMW will have had a lesser impact on BMW's overall score than the Cayenne (as the lowest scoring Porsche) will have had on Porsche's overall rating.
__________________
2014 Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Range Rover HSE Lux, Orkney Gray, Sand interior
Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible, Midnight Blue, 6-Speed
BMW 550i, BMW 545i

Last edited by swajames; 10-28-2011 at 12:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-28-2011, 04:09 PM
Financeman Financeman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Wichita, Ks
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 254
Mein Auto: 2003 530IA
What we don't know is the reason behind the poor ratings for the 550i.....we really can't validate the statistics used to arrive at the conclusions. That said, we know of a number of participants on this forum who have been disappointed in their 550s...tire problems and oil usage problems are really fairly widespread. Such issues don't make the vehicle bad......but could certainly result in a much lower score than others by CR. Many new cars are nearly problem free for two or three years......apparently this is not the case for the new 550i (or the 535i). The bad thing....negative ratings by any publication, especially CR, can impact resale....and lease residuals. What are the residuals on a new 5 series compared to residuals several years ago....are they improving or worsening?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-28-2011, 04:21 PM
dalekressin's Avatar
dalekressin dalekressin is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Oshkosh Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,006
Mein Auto: 2010 M3
CR has not met my needs well either.
Value is not only determined on price and it seems the price weighs very heavy in their analysis.
__________________
94 530i sold (That was difficult for me)
01 530i >144,500+ miles SOLD
06 330XI winter's especially fun drive (SOLD)
10 M3 Sedan (sweet)
13 Nissan GT-R Black Edition
14 Porsche Cayenne Platinum Diesel

BMWCCA 4215
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-28-2011, 09:54 PM
pharding pharding is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Somewhere
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,019
Mein Auto: 11 550i
I really enjoy my 550i and I do not value Consumer Reports when it comes to automobiles. However my transmission or drive train literally just stopped working without warning today while I going 30 mph on a busy suburban Chicago Street. The engine would not engage the transmission. I blocked traffic until a good Samaritan pushed me out of the way manually. It was loaded on a flat bed tow truck and taken to the dealer. The dealer believes that an electronic module died suddenly. They are working with BMW on it. It came at the worst possible time. I feel lucky that I wasn't in the middle of nowhere. This is my fourth 5er and this was my first technical issue other faulty door seals in 2007 so I can't complain. I was surprised that the drive train without warning just suddenly stopped working.
__________________
04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-29-2011, 05:52 AM
SteVTEC's Avatar
SteVTEC SteVTEC is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: DC Burbs
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 991
Mein Auto: '11 E93/335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
I really enjoy my 550i and I do not value Consumer Reports when it comes to automobiles. However my transmission or drive train literally just stopped working without warning today while I going 30 mph on a busy suburban Chicago Street. The engine would not engage the transmission. I blocked traffic until a good Samaritan pushed me out of the way manually. It was loaded on a flat bed tow truck and taken to the dealer. The dealer believes that an electronic module died suddenly. They are working with BMW on it. It came at the worst possible time. I feel lucky that I wasn't in the middle of nowhere. This is my fourth 5er and this was my first technical issue other faulty door seals in 2007 so I can't complain. I was surprised that the drive train without warning just suddenly stopped working.
Funny. I read this thread yesterday with the usual amount of eye rolling, and then just for kicks looked up the 550i in CR to see what the issues were. Lo and behold it was in the "electronics" column, which I believe includes engine control modules and those sorts of things. I don't necessarily agree with Consumer Report's overall ratings for vehicles either because there's too many individual/subjective things about cars, but their reliability data has always been top notch and very accurate.
__________________
Steve
2012 E70 X5d (IT'S HERE!) Deep Sea Blue / Sand Beige, Premium, 3rd Row, Multi-Contour
2011 E93 335i Deep Sea Blue / Oyster, Step, Premium, Convenience (PDC & CA), and that's it


more pics here
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 10-29-2011, 06:11 AM
BZATWORK's Avatar
BZATWORK BZATWORK is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Out West
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 266
Mein Auto: 2011 550i XDrive
How did CR miss dinging the 2011 535? If I had a dime for every time someone complained/inquired about "engine lag" - I'd have enough dimes to buy another BMW. The proof is not in the forum chatter. I saw one issue in the forums about the 550 having "engine sputter" issues - but that's all, folks. Either CR found one hacked off 550 owner or strange things are afoot at CR.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-29-2011, 06:29 AM
Highmodulus's Avatar
Highmodulus Highmodulus is offline
MSport is Best Sport
Location: Virginia
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 196
Mein Auto: 2011 M3 Coupe, Comp, 6mt
Problem with CR is their elderly readership. The average age is skewed hard towards "I love 60 minutes" and "Why did they cancel Matlock". Hence the primary reason Ford took a hit on MyFordTouch- old people to dumb too figure it out.

Also their is a institutional bias towards Toyota products among the editors which means poor products get the hand wave for a few years.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 10-29-2011, 06:31 AM
bmwarchitect bmwarchitect is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: upstate new york
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 564
Mein Auto: 03 BMW X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by alewifebp View Post
I used to subscribe, but I cancelled about a year or two ago. Wasn't really getting the benefit. Never took their car reviews seriously. TV reviews are much better done by other places. And the reliability rankings are a mixed bag. As someone else mentioned, no matter how small the problem is, the "buckets" that they put things in to are very wide and somewhat vague. Like anything, you need to look at data from multiple sources and make the best decision based on those inputs. I don't buy German cars and hope for a perfect reliability experience.
Best place for a TV review is at a TV repair shop.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10-29-2011, 11:25 AM
pharding pharding is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Somewhere
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,019
Mein Auto: 11 550i
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
I really enjoy my 550i and I do not value Consumer Reports when it comes to automobiles. However my transmission or drive train literally just stopped working without warning today while I going 30 mph on a busy suburban Chicago Street. The engine would not engage the transmission. I blocked traffic until a good Samaritan pushed me out of the way manually. It was loaded on a flat bed tow truck and taken to the dealer. The dealer believes that an electronic module died suddenly. They are working with BMW on it. It came at the worst possible time. I feel lucky that I wasn't in the middle of nowhere. This is my fourth 5er and this was my first technical issue other faulty door seals in 2007 so I can't complain. I was surprised that the drive train without warning just suddenly stopped working.
I just got back from the dealership. My drive train has a communication failure. They get even get the car to tell their computer what happened. It appears that an electronic component failed. I slowed to a stop and the car would go forward or backward at all. What I don't appreciate is that with this apparent electronic failure the car was not driveable immediately. They are consulting with BMW NA.
__________________
04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 10-30-2011, 02:18 AM
SteVTEC's Avatar
SteVTEC SteVTEC is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: DC Burbs
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 991
Mein Auto: '11 E93/335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by BZATWORK View Post
How did CR miss dinging the 2011 535? If I had a dime for every time someone complained/inquired about "engine lag" - I'd have enough dimes to buy another BMW. The proof is not in the forum chatter. I saw one issue in the forums about the 550 having "engine sputter" issues - but that's all, folks. Either CR found one hacked off 550 owner or strange things are afoot at CR.
I'm pretty sure my N55 powered E93 has the same exact engine lag that F10 people are complaining about, and no that's not something that would ever make it into a CR survey. Unlike what 90% of the ignoramuses claim, yes CR does actually differentiate between major and minor issues, and only want people to report major ones and list some criteria for that in their surveys. You can read about this all right in the CR Reliability FAQ, which is why I have to laugh when I see people make such ridiculous claims that are actually addressed right in their own FAQ. No, sorry, CR did not find "one" hacked off 550 owner, they had to have found more than a few. Per section 2 of their FAQ, they typically get at least 200-400 survey returns for each model/engine variant, with a minimum of 100. So they got survey returns from at least 100 2011 550i owners. How many 550i owners are on this forum? I doubt it's anywhere close to 100.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Highmodulus View Post
Problem with CR is their elderly readership. The average age is skewed hard towards "I love 60 minutes" and "Why did they cancel Matlock". Hence the primary reason Ford took a hit on MyFordTouch- old people to dumb too figure it out.

Also their is a institutional bias towards Toyota products among the editors which means poor products get the hand wave for a few years.
I sure hope it felt good for you to say that, because of course it's complete nonsense.

Let's just take a look at their top rated sedan for each sub-category:

Family sedan: Nissan Altima
Upscale sedan: Hyundai Genesis 3.8
Compact sports sedan: Infiniti G37
Luxury Sedan: Lexus LS 460L
Small cars (auto): Hyundai Elantra
Small cars (man): Mazda 3
Subcompact: Honda Fit
Fuel efficient hatchback: Volkswagen Golf TDI
Sporty car: BMW 1-series

Yeah that's some institutional bias towards Toyota there.

There isn't a shred of proof to support your claim about the supposed advanced age of CR readers, because it simply isn't true. And if you want to claim that CR has an institutional bias towards anything, you could credibly claim that it's towards reliable cars with good safety features. In the 1980's, the Japanese were the ones that proved that you could build cars with almost appliance like reliability. Everything out of Detroit back then was pure garbage, and while the Germans/Europeans made some decent cars, they were never all that reliable either. So of course Hondas and Toyotas were top-rated at CR for decades, because it's taken everybody else that long to catch up. Look at their ratings today beyond the sedan class also and you'll see plenty of different manufacturers at or near the top. It's hardly "just Toyotas" anymore and hasn't been for a long time. Wake up.
__________________
Steve
2012 E70 X5d (IT'S HERE!) Deep Sea Blue / Sand Beige, Premium, 3rd Row, Multi-Contour
2011 E93 335i Deep Sea Blue / Oyster, Step, Premium, Convenience (PDC & CA), and that's it


more pics here
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 10-30-2011, 06:34 AM
Highmodulus's Avatar
Highmodulus Highmodulus is offline
MSport is Best Sport
Location: Virginia
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 196
Mein Auto: 2011 M3 Coupe, Comp, 6mt
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
I'm pretty sure my N55 powered E93 has the same exact engine lag that F10 people are complaining about, and no that's not something that would ever make it into a CR survey. Unlike what 90% of the ignoramuses claim, yes CR does actually differentiate between major and minor issues, and only want people to report major ones and list some criteria for that in their surveys. You can read about this all right in the CR Reliability FAQ, which is why I have to laugh when I see people make such ridiculous claims that are actually addressed right in their own FAQ. No, sorry, CR did not find "one" hacked off 550 owner, they had to have found more than a few. Per section 2 of their FAQ, they typically get at least 200-400 survey returns for each model/engine variant, with a minimum of 100. So they got survey returns from at least 100 2011 550i owners. How many 550i owners are on this forum? I doubt it's anywhere close to 100.




I sure hope it felt good for you to say that, because of course it's complete nonsense.

Let's just take a look at their top rated sedan for each sub-category:

Family sedan: Nissan Altima
Upscale sedan: Hyundai Genesis 3.8
Compact sports sedan: Infiniti G37
Luxury Sedan: Lexus LS 460L
Small cars (auto): Hyundai Elantra
Small cars (man): Mazda 3
Subcompact: Honda Fit
Fuel efficient hatchback: Volkswagen Golf TDI
Sporty car: BMW 1-series

Yeah that's some institutional bias towards Toyota there.

There isn't a shred of proof to support your claim about the supposed advanced age of CR readers, because it simply isn't true. And if you want to claim that CR has an institutional bias towards anything, you could credibly claim that it's towards reliable cars with good safety features. In the 1980's, the Japanese were the ones that proved that you could build cars with almost appliance like reliability. Everything out of Detroit back then was pure garbage, and while the Germans/Europeans made some decent cars, they were never all that reliable either. So of course Hondas and Toyotas were top-rated at CR for decades, because it's taken everybody else that long to catch up. Look at their ratings today beyond the sedan class also and you'll see plenty of different manufacturers at or near the top. It's hardly "just Toyotas" anymore and hasn't been for a long time. Wake up.
Actually- the subscriber numbers and badly skewed age of the subscribers of an expensive magazine which to replicated for free on the Internet are widely know and hardly inclusive to the CR. As a former subscriber I gave up on them when the reviews were no longer the quality efforts of the past, and were worse than the more widely available free reviews on the net.

And where exactly do you think the widespread recognition for CR blind spot on Toyotas and Honda came from? A favorite trick was they would refuse to project first year reliability- except they would for Toyota (and always excellent)- as an FJ Cruiser buyer how that worked for him, or anyone who lived through the blizzard of recalls from them lately.

So my only "wake up" is one year's ranking and your opinion are not proof, but your attitude was of one thing- your place on my ignore list.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 10-30-2011, 07:48 AM
BZATWORK's Avatar
BZATWORK BZATWORK is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Out West
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 266
Mein Auto: 2011 550i XDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
I'm pretty sure my N55 powered E93 has the same exact engine lag that F10 people are complaining about, and no that's not something that would ever make it into a CR survey. Unlike what 90% of the ignoramuses claim, yes CR does actually differentiate between major and minor issues, and only want people to report major ones and list some criteria for that in their surveys. You can read about this all right in the CR Reliability FAQ, which is why I have to laugh when I see people make such ridiculous claims that are actually addressed right in their own FAQ. No, sorry, CR did not find "one" hacked off 550 owner, they had to have found more than a few. Per section 2 of their FAQ, they typically get at least 200-400 survey returns for each model/engine variant, with a minimum of 100. So they got survey returns from at least 100 2011 550i owners. How many 550i owners are on this forum? I doubt it's anywhere close to 100.




I sure hope it felt good for you to say that, because of course it's complete nonsense.

Let's just take a look at their top rated sedan for each sub-category:

Family sedan: Nissan Altima
Upscale sedan: Hyundai Genesis 3.8
Compact sports sedan: Infiniti G37
Luxury Sedan: Lexus LS 460L
Small cars (auto): Hyundai Elantra
Small cars (man): Mazda 3
Subcompact: Honda Fit
Fuel efficient hatchback: Volkswagen Golf TDI
Sporty car: BMW 1-series

Yeah that's some institutional bias towards Toyota there.

There isn't a shred of proof to support your claim about the supposed advanced age of CR readers, because it simply isn't true. And if you want to claim that CR has an institutional bias towards anything, you could credibly claim that it's towards reliable cars with good safety features. In the 1980's, the Japanese were the ones that proved that you could build cars with almost appliance like reliability. Everything out of Detroit back then was pure garbage, and while the Germans/Europeans made some decent cars, they were never all that reliable either. So of course Hondas and Toyotas were top-rated at CR for decades, because it's taken everybody else that long to catch up. Look at their ratings today beyond the sedan class also and you'll see plenty of different manufacturers at or near the top. It's hardly "just Toyotas" anymore and hasn't been for a long time. Wake up.

Dear somewhat malevolent CR defender:

Two things:

First, a question - does CR in the FAQ (or anywhere else) disclose the reasoning behind its listing/ranking of an automobile model? By this question, I don't mean the methodology of its survey/study. Instead, I mean what were the specific problems that consumers complained about when responding to the survey (e.g., engine troubles, transmission issues, etc.). If they don't, then it would seem about as productive as someone calling 911 to report a crime and not providing a location/description of the crime. If it does, then please provide the location so I might educate myself as to the basis behind CR's "fair and balanced" perspective.

Speaking of suspect reporting news networks, I printed out a CR review of the 5 series line (with the assistance of a subscriber) and found the review to be high level and more akin to a run down of published stats than anything informative. I suppose this sort of "reporting" could have value when comparison shopping (i.e., one location, all the published stats for luxury sedans). It didn't, however, inspire me to subscribe.

I look forward to reviewing your measured response.
__________________
2011 550i Xdrive Dinan Stages 1 and 2 - oh yeah!
2009 X5 3.0 - adios
2007 X5 3.0 - buh-bye
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 10-30-2011, 08:19 AM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Netherlands
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,047
Mein Auto: F11 530D
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunsBMW View Post
Did you guys know that some company or manufactures send money to consumer reports to rate thier product higher then others. I heard that on 60 minutes one day
Yes that is something intervering with the outcome of these ratings. But how can we be sure, that on a board like this, there are no posters with commercial interests in other vehicles than BMW's? And so giving biased opinions in discussions.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 10-31-2011, 03:23 PM
07X3platinum's Avatar
07X3platinum 07X3platinum is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Chicago
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 356
Mein Auto: 2012 E550 Sedan
Just so you know, the 8-cylinder 2011 550 (along with other models) was just recalled by BMW.

Read the article.
__________________
1999 Z3 Coupe
2007 X3
2010 528i
2011 328i Convert
2012 E550 4Matic
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 10-31-2011, 03:43 PM
BZATWORK's Avatar
BZATWORK BZATWORK is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Out West
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 266
Mein Auto: 2011 550i XDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by 07X3platinum View Post
Just so you know, the 8-cylinder 2011 550 (along with other models) was just recalled by BMW.

Read the article.
Thanks for the heads up. That sucks! I called my dealer - the parts to address the issue aren't in yet. They say it will be a few weeks. Ouch!
__________________
2011 550i Xdrive Dinan Stages 1 and 2 - oh yeah!
2009 X5 3.0 - adios
2007 X5 3.0 - buh-bye
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms