Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 6 Series > E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)

E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)
The E63/E64 BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-31-2017, 07:56 PM
Bob in HSV Bob in HSV is offline
Certified Car Nut
Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 19
Mein Auto: 2009 650i Conv, 2016 C7
Many Known BMW Design problems

This will probably upset a lot of people, but no one seems concerned about the problems I hear of on this forum

I have been on the forum for over a year with an E46, now with the E64. I don't understand how most BMW owners put up with the problems identified on these cars. I am an Electrical and Mechanical engineer and I can't understand equipment with built in problems from poor design. In my previous world, a malfunction of equipment had the real possibility of loss of life.

Why are there not more real actions from the forum people against BMW on these issues. Valve seals that degrade after as little as 45K miles? I've probably had over 300 cars over my life. I have never seen these types of design faults.

I love driving the cars. The 650i is a daily driver because my C7 Corvette is on a collector policy and can't be used as a daily driver.

Maybe this will pull out real discussion if I'm not banned from the forum. If so, so be it.
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 01-31-2017, 08:28 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Georgia
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,745
Mein Auto: 2005 645Ci & 2007 750Li
There are many known problems with our cars, but there has not been any major recalls that will help most of us. When BMW has a problem that has caught to much attention, they call it a "Customer Care Package" . Any recall such as this usually only applies to the original owner, or still under warranty. The N62 & N63 V8 engines all have their share of problems, but none of them pose a safety problem that requires attention. BMW values are dropping faster than in the past for reasons like this. Valve seal problems are mainly caused from extended oil change intervals, that cause the seals to fail sooner than later.

I understand where you are coming from, but no one is going to make BMW fix all of their problems.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-01-2017, 07:53 AM
tampamark tampamark is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: tampa fl
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,290
Mein Auto: 650 Sold - '12 Jaguar XK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob in HSV View Post
Maybe this will pull out real discussion if I'm not banned from the forum. If so, so be it.
Prone to dramatic statements? Feel free to start the class action, rally the troops.

I feel your pain and you are very late to the complaint party. This has been discussed, and re-discussed, and parsed, and debated, and discussed, over and over since I have been on this board starting in 2009. People deal with it because they love the cars look and performance and adore the fact that a $90k car can be had for nothing.

Personally when I moved on from my 6 series I did not buy a BMW, partially because I needed a change and partly because I was disappointed with the overall quality, also I knew the new generation of 6'ers were having their own design issues. So here I am departed from the BMW brand, does it matter? They design the car for the first owner not a bottom feeder in the used car market like myself. They are breaking profit records on NEW car sales, after all that is what makes them money. Conversely I am not sure how much a manufacturer owes the consumer in reliability, are they obligated to have a car's seals last 8, 9, 15 years? Seems it would be hard to win if there was a lawsuit.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-01-2017, 08:32 AM
mcdave71 mcdave71 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Middle GA
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 102
Mein Auto: 2008 BMW 650i Convertible
Look at it from the other side, The valve seal problem helped be to be able to afford my '08 650. If there wasn't the expensive problems that I can fix myself, I'd be stuck in my 330
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-01-2017, 12:43 PM
roseng's Avatar
roseng roseng is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Calabasas, CA
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,947
Mein Auto: 2016 528i + 2007 650 Vert
You have to understand, these are cars that sell for around $100,000 new. They are made to last about 100,000 miles. It's that simple.
Maintenance and repair costs will cost much more basic low cost economy car. It always surprises me that people purchase a performance car or for low price and expected to cost the same money as an inexpensive economy car.


These cars are performance machines. If you look at the cost of owning most performance German cars BMW is really is not out of line.


While many members have exceeded 160,000 miles and more, it is rare.
These cars have many high tech features and of course that leads to many high tech failures that are complicated and expensive to fix.

What makes it even worse is that many people rely on the dealer for of their repairs. Unfortunately many dealers have mechanics that are not well trained. They do not repair parts they only replace with new. That means $$$.


My 2007 650i Cabrio has over-the-top complex systems and unreliable electrical system. At the time this was designed it was considered extremely high tech. The systems in this car first came on the market in 2004. Most of these were introduced in the 645i version.
That means design work had begun somewhere before 2001. If you consider that this is 15+ year old technology, that is well dated compared to current generation of technology, it is understandable that the reliability is not great, and repairs are difficult and expensive.


If you look to old performance cars like Porsche, you will see lots of issues with engines and oil leaks, but they do not have any luxury features like our cars to sell the failures seem less.



They still cost $$$ if you do not do the work yourself. Forget luxury cars, I remember what tremendous money I put into my MBG when I was a kid.



Mercedes offers a different level of performance but even greater expense for maintenance and repair than our cars.


If you go to a real super car like a Ferrari you would never consider using it as a daily driver or expecting 100,000 miles or more of a car. Brake jobs are $25K and you are lucky to get 2,500 miles between breakdowns. Then it sits till the parts arrive. One of the members of the M6 board went that rout for 6 months and gave in. It made the M6 seem like it was free to drive.


Yes, the maintenance it crazy expensive. Aston? Maserati? Also big bucks to maintain. That is the class you are in. Old or new.


Yes BMWs are expensive to own and operate, and that is the cost of a car that has better than average performance and styling.


If you can really find a better car, with these features for less money, then you should consider purchasing it.


BTW,
You will not be kicked off of this forum for expressing your opinion. It is an independent group of people not a manufacturer promotion site, and we are here to all help each other. I have had tremendous help from the members and a number of them have actually become friends. I've learned more than I ever thought possible about these cars and I have been able to assist others as well. That is what this forum is for.


If you need help or have questions feel free to ask for assistance, that is why we are all here.


In the meantime, enjoyed your ride.

__________________

I Love LA. It lets me ride in the winter with the top down.
07' E64/Black....14' F10/M-Sport White

Last edited by roseng; 02-01-2017 at 12:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-02-2017, 01:09 PM
Bob in HSV Bob in HSV is offline
Certified Car Nut
Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 19
Mein Auto: 2009 650i Conv, 2016 C7
The reason I am sort of touchy is from the reaction of the Mercedes forum when I was not happy with mu 2000 SL500. I was informed that the lack of reliability was imagined and if I was not pleased, perhaps I should purchase some lesser brand which would be less expensive to fix.

I bought a new 2008 C6 Corvette. Only kept it for 4 years, and it never say the dealership except for oil changes.

I have a 1987 C4 Convertible that I have had since new it only has 130,000 miles and I have changed the water pump once, and the alternator every 40,000. I shipped it to my daughter in Hawaii since I was my late wife's car and my daughter really loved it.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-02-2017, 04:07 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Georgia
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,745
Mein Auto: 2005 645Ci & 2007 750Li
We are not trying to be rude, but this subject is brought up quite often. A lot of people purchase a off lease car, & you do not know how it was taken care of, since it was a leased vehicle. People that lease a car do not really care what happens, because it will not be their problem after the car is turned in. Now some people take care of a car no matter what. BMW only will change the oil under warranty at 15k intervals, & this is what starts the viscous cycle. The new N63 engine oil intervals have been changed due to many failures from the turbos overheating the oil. Maybe they might have learned their lesson, but I kind of doubt it?

Welcome Aboard!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-02-2017, 08:11 PM
tampamark tampamark is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: tampa fl
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,290
Mein Auto: 650 Sold - '12 Jaguar XK
Bob, I get it, I bought my 2006 650 in 2009, so it was 3 years old. A one owner car. It is a spectacularly beautiful car, even now when I see a the previous generation 6 on the road it catches my eye.

Myself and many others on this board have been very vocal about our disappointment with the overall build quality of the car. As I tell friends and have posted before, it was the best car I have ever driven but the worst car I have ever owned. Well, at that time...my Jag is pretty cherry so the BMW no longer owns the best car driven category. They ask me why the worst and I tell them how it had a bunch of issues that were certainly premature, oil leaks, tranny leaks, coolant leaks. All for a car well maintained that was bought with 27k miles and traded at 67k in 6 years. But I have to say that while it had stupid drips and leaks and junky failures it never left me on the side of the road stranded (well, it left my Wife stranded at Bonefish curbside when I was out of town and the alternator crapped out, but that wasn't me! Imagine her consternation having the staff push her car to a parking spot).

And yes, the knock that American cars are junk is completely lost on me, I have had Fords and Chevy's for 20 years as a company car and they have been great cars.

Last edited by tampamark; 02-02-2017 at 08:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:23 AM
645/333's Avatar
645/333 645/333 is online now
Michael
Location: uk
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,542
Mein Auto: BMW 640i SE Convertible
I think all of the comments made by the guys about owning a 6 series are well founded. I owned a 645ci and it was overall the best car I had ever owned (and I have owned a few) , bought second hand with 9k on the clock and I sold it with 75k on the clock some 5 years later. I did not have the major problems others experienced but I did get rid of the car before the dreaded 80k-100k and the coolant pipe issue, which in the UK was incredibly expensive to fix.
In recent yearsI have owned a new Z4 3.0 E89(the worst car i have owned, in part due to BMW themselves) and a Mercedes 350cdi convertible which was also a lovely car, and actually is much more refined with the top down than any BMW.
However I always said I would go back to a 6 series and ordered a brand new one last year, but a 640i convertible, mostly due to this engine is truly bullet proof, were I feel the v8's are fragile still. Am I disappointed with my new 6 , absolutely not it is brilliant, made an error with the seats but that was my fault. I also bought a mini cooper as a run around, what a hoot!!!
Finally in the years I have been on this forum I have been impressed with the support and knowledge of the many members, from those who don't know what a car is (you have to laugh at some of the questions) through to guys with great knowledge and will do whatever they can to help. Not only the best car i have ever had but also by far the best Forum, which is why I come back to help were I can!!!
__________________

Always said I would go back to a 6 series

Last edited by 645/333; 02-03-2017 at 05:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 6 Series > E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms