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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #51  
Old 11-30-2011, 10:49 AM
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The new 3 series will kill all its competitors in comparison tests.

It'll be again on the C&D 10 best list.

It'll set new sales record for a 3 series.

People will always complain about this or that, but the new 3 stays on the course for BMW. In addition, it's now a big and luxury enough car that a 5 series is almost a moot point.
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  #52  
Old 11-30-2011, 10:52 AM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Originally Posted by SpinZero View Post
Come on, tell us how you REALLY feel.

But seriously, shouldn't you hold back a tad bit just in case this car turns out to be worthy of its name? Because you'd look mighty stupid if F30 ends up being very well received even by most of the enthusiasts.
Look....I wish...I really WISH, that ALL is well with the "Ultimate Driving Machine" in it's ultimate handling form(3 series & M )...but I am a realist.
When the ever lovi'n 3 Series C&D fanboy writers, with their annual "Top Ten" BMW 3 series Love-Fest...go south on the car...yes, I trust something is SERIOUSLY amiss.

I do NOT necessarily need to test drive ...if GUYS who DO IT FOR A LIVING...and have their rep as writers & car enthusiasts on the line, not to mention their JOB and the rep of the Mag they write for...do it for me 1st...and then later, of course, I will test drive for myself and confirm.
It is usually dead on to the reviews, we are not all that different, if our "agenda" is spirited driving & handling!!!

BTW...i have not heard one person say that that hood design looks good...should belong on a car in this "price range"...
...is that the BEST BMW can come up with? It is downright HIDEOUS .
Completely ruins the FRONT of the car, complete FAIL for the hood and front end look!
And while they were at it, the copied the Japanese penchant for "whale nose" bloated hood contour a la Lexus IS-F, among others...BMW's looked special and caused legions to imitate that low sloping hood & front end, in relation to the rear...that made the car look aggressive & fast. GONE with the F-30.

Last edited by 16n69; 11-30-2011 at 10:59 AM.
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  #53  
Old 11-30-2011, 10:57 AM
hyperzulu hyperzulu is offline
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I don't want a 5 series. I'm single with no kids. We are so moronic that we equate bigger with better. How basic is that line of reasoning? You take a sledge hammer to hang up art?
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  #54  
Old 11-30-2011, 11:06 AM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperzulu View Post
I don't want a 5 series. I'm single with no kids. We are so moronic that we equate bigger with better. How basic is that line of reasoning? You take a sledge hammer to hang up art?
I have a 5 series. And it's great! But it's not the main family car in our family so I think I can go a little smaller next time if I want to.
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  #55  
Old 11-30-2011, 11:11 AM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
And while they were at it, the copied the Japanese penchant for "whale nose" bloated hood contour a la Lexus IS-F, among others...BMW's looked special and caused legions to imitate that low sloping hood & front end, in relation to the rear...that made the car look aggressive & fast. GONE with the F-30.
You may not be aware of the recent European Union Pedestrian Safety Legislation, which is affecting the front-end design of all cars sold there.

Some of what you don't like about the new F30 nose is being driven by compliance, which is why you observe it happening with other makes too.
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Last edited by WillInDenver; 11-30-2011 at 01:18 PM.
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  #56  
Old 11-30-2011, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
BTW...i have not heard one person say that that hood design looks good...should belong on a car in this "price range"...
I think the hood design looks good and belongs on a car in this price range.
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  #57  
Old 11-30-2011, 11:29 AM
7or8 7or8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
I do NOT necessarily need to test drive ...if GUYS who DO IT FOR A LIVING...and have their rep as writers & car enthusiasts on the line, not to mention their JOB and the rep of the Mag they write for...do it for me 1st...and then later, of course, I will test drive for myself and confirm.
It is usually dead on to the reviews, we are not all that different, if our "agenda" is spirited driving & handling!!!
Respectfully, this is where you're loosing me. You're coming off as if every review is saying this car has lost it for the 3 series. When in fact most of the reviews are saying this car is an improvement in handling over the e90. Have you not read those reviews?

If all reviewers trash it, then i'm usually pretty sure it'll be crap. If all reviewers praise it then i'm pretty sure it'll be worthy of such praise. But, if some like it and some don't, i'll wait to drive it myself before i form an opinion.

Last edited by 7or8; 11-30-2011 at 11:49 AM.
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  #58  
Old 11-30-2011, 01:14 PM
jackson328xi jackson328xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Alan View Post
I think the hood design looks good and belongs on a car in this price range.
I was just noticing that the cut line for the hood is above the kidneys on the: new 7 new 6 new 5 new 3 and even the new Z4. The ONLY BMWs where it is integrated with the grill are the 1 (old design) and the X3/5/6. That means the only model released in the past 3 years that did not have this design was the X3 (and with an SUV ride heigh its not really in the same group as the others).

Given that, it seems plausible that these new euro safety standards might actually be the reason for the redesign. Also I don't remember it being talked about very much when any of the perviously mentioned cars were released with the change.

Thoughts?
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  #59  
Old 11-30-2011, 01:17 PM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson328xi View Post
I was just noticing that the cut line for the hood is above the kidneys on the: new 7 new 6 new 5 new 3 and even the new Z4. The ONLY BMWs where it is integrated with the grill are the 1 (old design) and the X3/5/6. That means the only model released in the past 3 years that did not have this design was the X3 (and with an SUV ride heigh its not really in the same group as the others).

Given that, it seems plausible that these new euro safety standards might actually be the reason for the redesign. Also I don't remember it being talked about very much when any of the perviously mentioned cars were released with the change.

Thoughts?
The timing seems to line up. IIRC, the new EU rules were announced in 2007, which would have affected design choices as you suggest above.
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  #60  
Old 11-30-2011, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
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Given that, it seems plausible that these new euro safety standards might actually be the reason for the redesign.
I agree. I think that is what is driving the styling change.
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  #61  
Old 11-30-2011, 03:49 PM
jackson328xi jackson328xi is offline
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I have to say I really liked the look of my E92, but if the had to make changes I think they did a pretty good job with it.
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  #62  
Old 11-30-2011, 05:46 PM
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raleedy raleedy is offline
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I have to say I really liked the look of my E92, but if the had to make changes I think they did a pretty good job with it.
Yeah, those extra two doors are a real plus.
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  #63  
Old 11-30-2011, 09:00 PM
pcbrew pcbrew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
The timing seems to line up. IIRC, the new EU rules were announced in 2007, which would have affected design choices as you suggest above.
Link to post in another forum where BMW insider discusses this:
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showth...7#post10704077
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  #64  
Old 11-30-2011, 10:35 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
It depends on how you define "their way."

I don't think there is any dispute that the F30 will lose the kind of steering feedback that are in the previous generation 3s. In fact the point was made that the new F30 made the steering feel more insulated and smooth.

The size of the F30 makes it the largest 3 so far. It will have some impact on the handling.

It is also undisputed that the new turbo 4 will lose the smooth revving at the high RPM band. While it is true it will gain power at a much lower band, it does lose some of the highly regarded characters of the prior generations of the N/A I6s.

Of course one can point out other things the new I4 will gain over the outgoing N52, the better 0-60, and the fuel economy, just to name a few.

But it is reasonable to claim that the "BMW Way" was defined by its unique steering road feel, the smooth high revving nature of the I6, and the relative nimble smaller size.

One may not agree with the above characterization of the BMW 3, but one cannot say such characterization is unreasonable.

As such, if what one considers "the way" the BMW 3s has been following, is now altered, it is a reasonable claim that it had "lost its way."

The new direction may be a good thing for many, not so good for the others.
Well said...this is what I mean ( see my post "Hood Line").
"the "BMW Way" was defined by its unique steering road feel, the smooth high revving nature of the I6, and the relative nimble smaller size."
I posted here, that they have "lost their way"...they(BMW) built this legacy and built the brand on " its unique steering road feel, the smooth high revving nature of the I6, and the relative nimble smaller size."
So now, after years of these great cars...they can sell out and abandon all that...make status quo cars a la Lexus, Infinity, Acura...very competent, comfy, decent driving cars...
...with NO SOUL.
BMW has chosen to follow they conformist lead of these and other brands dedicated to bling bling, comfort & ease, and cars that drive the driver instead of the other way around.
Drivers cars, the "Ultimate Driving Machine"...kiss it goodbye with the F30
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  #65  
Old 11-30-2011, 10:50 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
You may not be aware of the recent European Union Pedestrian Safety Legislation, which is affecting the front-end design of all cars sold there.

Some of what you don't like about the new F30 nose is being driven by compliance, which is why you observe it happening with other makes too.
Porsche, Benz, Audi...?
Only BMW, like they think we are all so "hooked" we will just excuse any moronic design they throw at us.
We have other fine choices.
They got stupid & lazy with that hood design, totally uninspired.
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  #66  
Old 11-30-2011, 11:14 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Originally Posted by 7or8 View Post
Respectfully, this is where you're loosing me. You're coming off as if every review is saying this car has lost it for the 3 series. When in fact most of the reviews are saying this car is an improvement in handling over the e90. Have you not read those reviews?

If all reviewers trash it, then i'm usually pretty sure it'll be crap. If all reviewers praise it then i'm pretty sure it'll be worthy of such praise. But, if some like it and some don't, i'll wait to drive it myself before i form an opinion.
hmmm...let's see, some are citing the Autocar UK review...here is an excerpt "The steering of the 328i is so light and fingertip easy, the accelerator so delicate underfoot, the gearbox so smooth in its machinations, you almost feel like a passenger in the car as it wafts gracefully from one destination to the next. ...
...BAD NEWS, indeed. Steering "so light & fingertip easy"YUCH. NOt very BMW like, eh?
Throttle "so delicate underfoot" ....oh JOY "you almost feel like a passenger in the car as it wafts gracefully from one destination to the next."...LOVELY, just what we want and have come to love from the "Ultimate Driving Machine"...NOT
Once again...confirms BMW has "Lost it's way".
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  #67  
Old 12-01-2011, 04:45 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Alan View Post
I agree. I think that is what is driving the styling change.
Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
The timing seems to line up. IIRC, the new EU rules were announced in 2007, which would have affected design choices as you suggest above.
Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
You may not be aware of the recent European Union Pedestrian Safety Legislation, which is affecting the front-end design of all cars sold there.

Some of what you don't like about the new F30 nose is being driven by compliance, which is why you observe it happening with other makes too.
Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
Porsche, Benz, Audi...?
Only BMW, like they think we are all so "hooked" we will just excuse any moronic design they throw at us.
We have other fine choices.
They got stupid & lazy with that hood design, totally uninspired.

Bingo!
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  #68  
Old 12-01-2011, 05:23 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
Wrong



Wrong



Wrong




Bingo!
If the statements you quote are wrong, can you tell us why with facts instead of one word sentences?
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  #69  
Old 12-01-2011, 05:25 AM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
If the statements you quote are wrong, can you tell us why with facts instead of one word sentences?
I suppose this is the internet; some people have fun arguing against thoughtful, well researched opinion with their own single word drivel. Maybe he'll go away if we ignore him.
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Last edited by WillInDenver; 12-01-2011 at 05:36 AM.
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  #70  
Old 12-01-2011, 08:13 AM
Nedmundo Nedmundo is offline
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BMW is not the only manufacturer whose cars might be losing some feel as they gain in refinement and performance. You should read Autoweek's review of the new Porsche 911. Apparently it greatly outperforms the current car, but filters much more information from the road. This is partly by design, and the reviewers had to recalibrate their expectations about how the car behaves. So, it doesn't feel the same, but it works extremely well. Recent Audis have been criticized for numbness as well. At the other end of the spectrum, you have Acura's second generation TSX, which is larger than the first generation and has vastly superior dynamics, but lost some feel, mostly due to the electrically-assisted steering. The new Civic Si has also become more refined, but apparently lacks the visceral feel of the previous generation. Interestingly, as this happens at brands known for performance, the generally bland Lexus and Toyota are apparently trying to move in the other direction with the new GS350 sedan and RWD sports car designed with Subaru. It will be interesting to see which marques attempt to retain a direct, mechanical feel along with increased refinement. I'm betting on Mazda in the non-premium segment, and I still have faith in Honda/Acura and BMW -- at least they still offer manual transmissions!

As for the F30, I'm concerned about the possibility of numb steering, but I bet it's fantastic otherwise, and I'll reserve judgment until I drive it.
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  #71  
Old 12-01-2011, 09:04 AM
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If you really want road feel buy a cayman.
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  #72  
Old 12-01-2011, 09:23 AM
7or8 7or8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
hmmm...let's see, some are citing the Autocar UK review...here is an excerpt "The steering of the 328i is so light and fingertip easy, the accelerator so delicate underfoot, the gearbox so smooth in its machinations, you almost feel like a passenger in the car as it wafts gracefully from one destination to the next. ...
...BAD NEWS, indeed. Steering "so light & fingertip easy"YUCH. NOt very BMW like, eh?
Throttle "so delicate underfoot" ....oh JOY "you almost feel like a passenger in the car as it wafts gracefully from one destination to the next."...LOVELY, just what we want and have come to love from the "Ultimate Driving Machine"...NOT
Once again...confirms BMW has "Lost it's way".
Talk about taking something out of context. Did you read the Autocar review yourself? If not, here are the two paragraphs:
"The steering of the 328i is so light and fingertip easy, the accelerator so delicate underfoot, the gearbox so smooth in its machinations, you almost feel like a passenger in the car as it wafts gracefully from one destination to the next. The four cylinder engine purrs gently in its low to mid ranges, providing more thrust that you thought possible from such a small petrol engine when installed in a car as big, relatively speaking, as this.

Select Sport and it instantly feels even more alive, not just beneath your backside and feet but at the tips of your fingers as well. And if you're feeling truly in the mood there's a Sport+ setting available in this model as well, which brings yet crisper responses from the steering, gearbox and throttle, and turns the traction control to a fruitier setting for good measure."
The reviewer is saying that the steering is light and fingertip easy in "Comfort Mode", where it was meant to be that way, not in Sport or Sport+ mode.

Once again, you are cherry-picking reviews, and in this case sentences, that fit your argument and ignore the rest. There are more reviews and paragraphs that say the f30 handles better than the e90.

Because of the variety of reviews I choose to be optimistic, and wait to test it myself. It's clear though, that your position and angst, is unsupported at this point.

Last edited by 7or8; 12-01-2011 at 09:36 AM.
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  #73  
Old 12-01-2011, 10:20 AM
SpinZero SpinZero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
hmmm...let's see, some are citing the Autocar UK review...here is an excerpt "The steering of the 328i is so light and fingertip easy, the accelerator so delicate underfoot, the gearbox so smooth in its machinations, you almost feel like a passenger in the car as it wafts gracefully from one destination to the next. ...
...BAD NEWS, indeed. Steering "so light & fingertip easy"YUCH. NOt very BMW like, eh?
Throttle "so delicate underfoot" ....oh JOY "you almost feel like a passenger in the car as it wafts gracefully from one destination to the next."...LOVELY, just what we want and have come to love from the "Ultimate Driving Machine"...NOT
Once again...confirms BMW has "Lost it's way".
God I hope you are no older than 21. For your own sake.
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  #74  
Old 12-01-2011, 11:31 AM
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Weaselboy Weaselboy is offline
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Wrong
I guess this settles it.
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  #75  
Old 12-01-2011, 11:33 AM
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http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/11/28/bm...he-n20-engine/

A very positive review until . . .

Quote:
And finally we arrive at the topic of steering feel in Sport+ mode. Maybe you should take a seat if you're not already sitting. I don't want to be a "Debbie downer" and rain on this lovely day but we've arrived at the weak point of BMW's new 3 series sedan. While in the first two driving modes, Eco Pro and Comfort, the steering is quite lax and uncommunicative; but it can be forgiven because the car is not trying to be sporty in these two settings. In Sport and Sport+ modes, however, I expect the steering to communicate the road surface with clarity and feedback by the boat load unfortunately it fails to do that. To be fair, the steering is nicely weighted in Sport+ mode, and steering inputs are met with precise responses. The steering ratio also feels great but the electronic assist steering in the new 3 series has a minimalist approach to feel and feedback in that it gives you only enough to feel for grip and the limit, and not a hair beyond. Basically, I felt like the steering kept me on a "need to know" basis, and any information beyond what was required to extract maximum performance from the 3 series was withheld in the interests of comfort and efficiency.

During my stint across the mountain pass I came across a section of rain-soaked road, and this is where the lack of steering feel became further evident. Whereas in the dry the steering fed sufficient information to feel for grip, in the rain the grip threshold was lowered such that it was more difficult to feel the tires as they approached their limits of adhesion to the road surface. In short, I found the steering subtracted from the dynamic driving experience and was not confidence inspiring as it should be. No previous generation of 3 series has had so little steering feel, and I lament this fact. That said, if you are not going to push your 328i to its very limits on the racetrack or a twisty mountain back road, this decreased steering feel may not be much to your concern. To my estimation, BMW are betting on this, and reserving telepathic steering feel for the M cars at the (slight) consequence of efficiency. Enter the F10 M5, which still features a hydraulically assisted steering unit, while the civilian F10 5 series also makes use of a more numb electronically assisted rack.
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