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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 05-25-2015, 01:49 PM
BMWFIEND707 BMWFIEND707 is offline
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Intermittent Misfire Cylinder 3 - 2 shops can't diagnose help

My 2008 335i 109k miles is having intermittent misfiring on cylinder 3.
i swapped coils from cyl 2 to 3 and cleared codes. Misfire stayed with cylinder 3. Again cleared codes swapped spark plugs, still misfire cylinder 3.

so i take to local indy shop and tell them everything I've done. even when i took to indy shop one tech took car for a spin with no prob, second tech drives and quotes "misfiring like a dog".
They throw an hour at it doing same as i did, swap coils, plugs, did compression test, electrical test on injector, all to tell me i need injector cleaner and it will clear. BS

so i decide to take to dealer. (i know FML) they spend hour and tell me i need all new coils and spark plugs. service writer said tech put a test pack of coils on there and it smoothed out perfectly. I got a quote for like 800 for new coils plugs and labor.

My question is why when i and an indy shop swapped plugs and coils it was not conclusive?
also service writer from bmw said they left a test coil in cylinder 3 (on purpose or not i don't know)
after getting back from dealer it ran perfectly for about 100 miles. Then CEL comes on i scan misfire cyl 3... drive back home 100 miles with it misfiring HARD. day later CEL is on but intermittent misfiring. half day is fine rest random misfires. i wake up this morning drive to work no CEL and no misfires.
any ideas? suggestions? please and thanks!
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  #2  
Old 05-25-2015, 02:46 PM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is online now
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The dealer will keep throwing parts at the issue and stick you with the bill.

When was the last time a carbon cleaning was done?

What was the condition of the plugs when they were removed? Was there any oil on them?
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  #3  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:46 PM
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Folgen Sie Mir Folgen Sie Mir is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdriller9 View Post
The dealer will keep throwing parts at the issue and stick you with the bill.
+1

I find it hard to believe the dealer put a set of coils in & drove it around. Then took them out?? Did they charge you for this? Now they want $800 for P&L?

I swapped mine out in a couple hours while watching the kids & it only being my first time. Parts were around $300 + or -
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Old 05-25-2015, 03:47 PM
BMWFIEND707 BMWFIEND707 is offline
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hey fdriller thanks for reply
never had carbon build up cleaned
cyl 3 sparlk plug had oil, cyl 2 plug i swapped looked little ashy
but my valve cover gasket is also leaking so there was some oil in the plug well so not sure if it was from residual i didn't clean or from actual plug

would carbon build up cause intermittent misfires? why only cyl 3?
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  #5  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:51 PM
BMWFIEND707 BMWFIEND707 is offline
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hey folgen thanks for reply
i paid 120 for hour of diag
and yea round 800 for P+L
don't think they drove around but said idle was very smooth
but idle is smooth half the day then starts misfiring so i dont know
i looked into getting new coils and plugs it was around 400 and i can easily do that job i just don't want to buy all those parts if its not the culprit ya know?
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  #6  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:55 PM
BMWFIEND707 BMWFIEND707 is offline
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My plugs do look a little worn and I'm going to replace those anyways for reg maintenance and peace of mind
but i don't see how it would be misfiring only on one cyl because of plugs and not all cyls
especially since i swapped plugs from cyls that aren't misfiring and code stayed with 3
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Old 05-25-2015, 04:32 PM
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new coil packs

new spark plugs

then blast the head later
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  #8  
Old 05-25-2015, 04:34 PM
BMWFIEND707 BMWFIEND707 is offline
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just ordered plugs should be here in few days will update when they arrive. if plugs don't fix ill buy set of coils and will again update. thanks everyone for all the replies and help =]
Another quick question - i thought the CPU would turn off the injector in a cylinder that is misfiring. Dealership told me I'm dumping raw gas into exhaust and can kill cats, o2 sensors etc
does the injector actually turn off? i need to keep driving it to work and back, am i going to do more damage to engine driving it with misfire?
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  #9  
Old 05-25-2015, 04:49 PM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWFIEND707 View Post
hey fdriller thanks for reply
never had carbon build up cleaned
cyl 3 sparlk plug had oil, cyl 2 plug i swapped looked little ashy
but my valve cover gasket is also leaking so there was some oil in the plug well so not sure if it was from residual i didn't clean or from actual plug

would carbon build up cause intermittent misfires? why only cyl 3?
Your issue is most likely a bad valve cover gasket. The spark plug seals are also part of the gasket. Well they are replaced with the VCG.

If you've never had the motor walnut shell blasted, it's also due for this service.

Either of these can cause the intermittent misfire.
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Last edited by fdriller9; 05-25-2015 at 04:52 PM.
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  #10  
Old 05-25-2015, 05:15 PM
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CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWFIEND707 View Post
My 2008 335i 109k miles is having intermittent misfiring on cylinder 3

Whelp, you've addressed coils & plugs.

They haven't swapped injectors with a good cyl? If you replace, HERE

BUT....if you've seriously gone 100k mi w/o intake valve blastin, do THIS before anything; get back to us.
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  #11  
Old 05-25-2015, 05:26 PM
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Why are we letting the injector off the hook so easily? Fdriller, your response with similar symptoms on similar vintage 335i's has pointed to the injectors. What's different here? (Not that I'm discounting carboned up intakes, just asking.) OP, any chance you can give me STFT and LTFT when the code is set?

Last edited by DSXMachina; 05-25-2015 at 05:28 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2015, 05:34 PM
BMWFIEND707 BMWFIEND707 is offline
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i know the valve cover gasket and plug seals are a problem but i don't think its THE misfiring problem. I've known about gasket leak for a while was running fine for 20k, and even when i completely clean oil with cleaner and establish perfect connection it has good days and bad

and i thought they would have swapped injectors to rule out , instead dealer said injectors are fine but will need replacing soon for its not the cause of this misfire but gave me like 2k estimate for job in future...

I've diagnosed and replaced many of my buddies coils and plugs - but every time i do it its very clear because code follows

fdriller and calwaterboy i think your on it. it makes most sense why nothing i do can make the cylinder misfire move if its carbon build up. there is a bit of oil residue in my charge pipe
only problem is no one in my near area does walnut blasting.. i think the closest area that does is bay area 4 hours south =[
what is the average cost of walnut blast?

waterboy - i only have a mac no PC, is it still possible to find software comparable with mac? otherwise i would have tried swapping an injector

plan of attack i think is new plugs (on the way) if not then new coils (as far as i know never been replaced), if that still doesn't work then ill drive down south and get walnut blast, if it still doesn't work ill go to injectors. and if for some reason that doesn't fix I'm selling and going for 335d =P
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Old 05-25-2015, 05:34 PM
BMWFIEND707 BMWFIEND707 is offline
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i know the valve cover gasket and plug seals are a problem but i don't think its THE misfiring problem. I've known about gasket leak for a while was running fine for 20k, and even when i completely clean oil with cleaner and establish perfect connection it has good days and bad

and i thought they would have swapped injectors to rule out , instead dealer said injectors are fine but will need replacing soon for its not the cause of this misfire but gave me like 2k estimate for job in future...

I've diagnosed and replaced many of my buddies coils and plugs - but every time i do it its very clear because code follows

fdriller and calwaterboy i think your on it. it makes most sense why nothing i do can make the cylinder misfire move if its carbon build up. there is a bit of oil residue in my charge pipe
only problem is no one in my near area does walnut blasting.. i think the closest area that does is bay area 4 hours south =[
what is the average cost of walnut blast?

waterboy - i only have a mac no PC, is it still possible to find software comparable with mac? otherwise i would have tried swapping an injector

plan of attack i think is new plugs (on the way) if not then new coils (as far as i know never been replaced), if that still doesn't work then ill drive down south and get walnut blast, if it still doesn't work ill go to injectors. and if for some reason that doesn't fix I'm selling and going for 335d =P
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Old 05-25-2015, 06:12 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWFIEND707 View Post
i know the valve cover gasket and plug seals are a problem but i don't think its THE misfiring problem. I've known about gasket leak for a while was running fine for 20k, and even when i completely clean oil with cleaner and establish perfect connection it has good days and bad

and i thought they would have swapped injectors to rule out , instead dealer said injectors are fine but will need replacing soon for its not the cause of this misfire but gave me like 2k estimate for job in future...

I've diagnosed and replaced many of my buddies coils and plugs - but every time i do it its very clear because code follows

fdriller and calwaterboy i think your on it. it makes most sense why nothing i do can make the cylinder misfire move if its carbon build up. there is a bit of oil residue in my charge pipe
only problem is no one in my near area does walnut blasting.. i think the closest area that does is bay area 4 hours south =[
what is the average cost of walnut blast?

waterboy - i only have a mac no PC, is it still possible to find software comparable with mac? otherwise i would have tried swapping an injector

plan of attack i think is new plugs (on the way) if not then new coils (as far as i know never been replaced), if that still doesn't work then ill drive down south and get walnut blast, if it still doesn't work ill go to injectors. and if for some reason that doesn't fix I'm selling and going for 335d =P
If you will tell me LTFT and STFT at the time of the code setting I will tell you what your problem is.
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Old 05-25-2015, 07:20 PM
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Folgen Sie Mir Folgen Sie Mir is online now
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Tell me what LTFT & STFT mean first....lol
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Old 05-25-2015, 07:21 PM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is online now
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Why are we letting the injector off the hook so easily? Fdriller, your response with similar symptoms on similar vintage 335i's has pointed to the injectors. What's different here? (Not that I'm discounting carboned up intakes, just asking.) OP, any chance you can give me STFT and LTFT when the code is set?
I thought I read in his original post that injectors were swapped. I guess I skimmed too quickly.

It could very well be a bad injector but the leaking valve cover isn't good either
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:04 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by BMWFIEND707 View Post
waterboy - i only have a mac no PC, is it still possible to find software comparable with mac? otherwise i would have tried swapping an injector

You mean registering the injectors - if swapping two already installed, try w/o registration for the test.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:19 PM
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sptt144 sptt144 is offline
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Had misfiring on Cylinder 3. Saw all of the leaking oil in and around the #3 plug hole and all over the coil boot. Cleaned it, drove it, and it quickly came back. Changed out my valve cover, coil, and plug and problem went away for me. I got walnut blast after that and noticed much smoother power, idling and faster starting. That was about 25K miles ago. Just changed out a misfiring coil #1 and noticed very light oil starting to leak through in the #3/4 area again! Coil and plug were still dry however.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Folgen Sie Mir View Post
Tell me what LTFT & STFT mean first....lol
Long term fuel trim, short term fuel trim. All cars report this information and knowing it is it is key to a proper diagnosis. LTFT tells me if the problem is truly intermittent, and STFT tells me whether the mixture was leaned or enrichened, and by how much, at the time of the code setting. That information results from the B1S1 and B2S2 reporting exhaust oxygen levels, and the computer reacting by attempting adjustments to make everything perfect.
There is a lot of other data I'd like but fuel trim is the mechanic's equivalent of temperature and pulse.
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Old 05-25-2015, 11:51 PM
BMWFIEND707 BMWFIEND707 is offline
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DSX thanks for info and reply - may be stupid question but how do i get the LTFM & STFT? i have just standard obdII reader nothing fancy

sptt - i forgot to put valve cover gasket on there. Thats deff something ill do when i get plugs especially since its like a 30 dollar part. It for sure needs to be done
damn after 20k it started again? i know our engines run high pressure from double snails, do you think some seeping is normal?

waterboy - i thought the injectors were coded to individual cylinders thus unable to swap like coils. So what your saying is i can swap the injectors without coding and if its a faulty injector the code will follow?

oh important side note i was driving to day with no CEL (second day in a row), drove like normal maybe tiny stutter every 20 secs during idle but other than that 0 problems. but i scanned anyways i got a pending code for o2 sensor bank 1 i believe. again does the ECM shut off injectors to failing cylinders or does that just confirm a leaking injector sending raw fuel into exhaust possibly killing o2 sensor?

love the info and help from this thread you all rock
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Old 05-26-2015, 03:49 AM
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CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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Originally Posted by BMWFIEND707 View Post
waterboy - i thought the injectors were coded to individual cylinders thus unable to swap like coils. So what your saying is i can swap the injectors without coding and if its a faulty injector the code will follow?

Yes that's it - recoding not necessary for the very short term test - swap 'em back after.

Check THIS if problem injector detected.

.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY DUE; 05-26-2015 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 05-26-2015, 08:49 AM
Krynos Krynos is offline
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I had a similar problem.

Took it to the dealer. They inspected and recommended carbon cleaning.

After the walnut blasting they were still not happy with the result so they changed the coils and injectors under BMW's emissions warrantee (bear in mind that my car is an '09, but only has just passed 40K miles). At the same time being as I was due spark plugs in 5k miles they offered to change them for the price of parts only.

Runs like new now.
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Old 05-27-2015, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BMWFIEND707 View Post
hey fdriller thanks for reply
never had carbon build up cleaned
cyl 3 sparlk plug had oil, cyl 2 plug i swapped looked little ashy
but my valve cover gasket is also leaking so there was some oil in the plug well so not sure if it was from residual i didn't clean or from actual plug

would carbon build up cause intermittent misfires? why only cyl 3?
Like I said before...the VCG leaks right into cylinder #3 when it leaks. Mine was wet and replacing the VCG, coil, and plug solved it. If I didn't check it myself and tell them, they would have kept throwing coils and plugs at it too.
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