Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)

E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-24-2014, 04:55 PM
MEC11 MEC11 is offline
Registered User
Location: Arkansas
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1
Mein Auto: 2007 E90 335i
N54 Head Gasket Blown

Hey folks, Just had my water pump replaced under 3rd party warranty company. Problem is they wont cover the blown head gasket and possible head/block damage caused by the WP. My son and I have torn down lots of BMW motors but not this one. Are there any videos out there to educate us on the ins-and-outs?
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 10-24-2014, 05:18 PM
aleks001 aleks001 is offline
Aleks
Location: Brisbane, Australia
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 644
Mein Auto: 2006 BMW 325i
Oh mate this is a nightmare of a job, but then again I guess what your level of experience is. I would sell my car if this needed doing. Anyway here is some link to hopefully help you, I doubt you will find much DIY articles for this:

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...0nmogeWmW1ApAQ

http://translate.google.ca/translate...ed=0CFYQ7gEwAw
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-25-2014, 08:28 AM
need4speed's Avatar
need4speed need4speed is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: South Carolina
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,522
Mein Auto: 09 335Cabrio zsp/11 335d
nightmare +1
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-25-2014, 09:23 AM
CALWATERBOY DUE's Avatar
CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is online now
Reregistered User
Location: Fog City, California
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,950
Mein Auto: 09 E93 335i somewhat mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEC11 View Post
Hey folks, Just had my water pump replaced under 3rd party warranty company. Problem is they wont cover the blown head gasket and possible head/block damage caused by the WP. My son and I have torn down lots of BMW motors but not this one. Are there any videos out there to educate us on the ins-and-outs?

Click image for larger version

Name:	Head Gasket.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	15.6 KB
ID:	471820


Head gasket, you say?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-25-2014, 04:37 PM
SCOALE SCOALE is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: California/North Carolina
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 187
Mein Auto: 13 335is & 10 535 msport
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEC11 View Post
Hey folks, Just had my water pump replaced under 3rd party warranty company. Problem is they wont cover the blown head gasket and possible head/block damage caused by the WP. My son and I have torn down lots of BMW motors but not this one. Are there any videos out there to educate us on the ins-and-outs?
Were you unable to immediately pull over when the car started over-heating?
__________________

2013 335is AW/SB, 2010 535 Msport SG/Blk, 2005 330zhp (retired)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-25-2014, 05:02 PM
DSXMachina's Avatar
DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
Bimmerdex 7.4!
Location: New Hampshire
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 11,121
Mein Auto: 335i E92 TiAg 6MT ED
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOALE View Post
Were you unable to immediately pull over when the car started over-heating?
That question is called salt in the wound my man.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-25-2014, 07:56 PM
jigray3 jigray3 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Richmond, VA
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 159
Mein Auto: e39, e93
Very odd that warranty company won't cover damage caused by failure of covered component. Check the language of the document, and if not explicit, you might want legal help.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-25-2014, 09:56 PM
taylerdo's Avatar
taylerdo taylerdo is offline
Officially Something ...
Location: Rust Belt
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 141
Mein Auto: 2011 328xi Sedan, AT, N51
^^^^^

Just out of curiosity, how much does this legal help cost ?

Thanks.

Don
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-26-2014, 12:54 PM
jigray3 jigray3 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Richmond, VA
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 159
Mein Auto: e39, e93
Quote:
Originally Posted by taylerdo View Post
^^^^^

Just out of curiosity, how much does this legal help cost ?

Thanks.

Don
Depends on the language on the warranty, and the fight in the warranty company. It is unethical, but sometimes warranty companies deny a warranty as their first play in the negotiation, and hope the warranty holder doesn't fight back. Most act in good faith, but don't count on it. I suggest you read the document, and see if you believe you have an argument. If so, and the warranty company won't provide reasonable explanation for their action, letting a lawyer look the doc over and fire off a letter to the warranty company should only cost a few hundred dollars.

There also may be free assistance for the state attorney generals office, consumer affairs departments, insurance examiner's office, etc. If there is fraud being committed by the warranty company, these offices will not look kindly on it if it's in their purview. And occasionally, the agreement may exclude things they are not allowed to under state law.

Bottom line is this is a repair that can cost thousands of dollars, particularly if it's more than just the gasket. Best to explore every option to insure you get the benefits you paid for.

Last edited by jigray3; 10-26-2014 at 01:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-27-2014, 05:33 AM
Watchme Watchme is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 558
Mein Auto: 2011 328i E90
Quote:
Originally Posted by jigray3 View Post
Depends on the language on the warranty, and the fight in the warranty company. It is unethical, but sometimes warranty companies deny a warranty as their first play in the negotiation, and hope the warranty holder doesn't fight back. Most act in good faith, but don't count on it. I suggest you read the document, and see if you believe you have an argument. If so, and the warranty company won't provide reasonable explanation for their action, letting a lawyer look the doc over and fire off a letter to the warranty company should only cost a few hundred dollars.

There also may be free assistance for the state attorney generals office, consumer affairs departments, insurance examiner's office, etc. If there is fraud being committed by the warranty company, these offices will not look kindly on it if it's in their purview. And occasionally, the agreement may exclude things they are not allowed to under state law.

Bottom line is this is a repair that can cost thousands of dollars, particularly if it's more than just the gasket. Best to explore every option to insure you get the benefits you paid for.
Very good advice, Mr. Incredible's day job, anyone? He has to deny claims to be a well-performing employee.
__________________
2011 328i X-Drive Sedan N51 AT; Black / Black.
Premium, Value, Hi-Fi stereo, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-27-2014, 06:41 AM
David1's Avatar
David1 David1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Great Lakes
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,073
Mein Auto: 07 X3 and 335i
Very hard to blow a head gasket on any newer BMW. If the motor gets to hot, the ECU will not let you drive the car and limps it or just lets you move the vehical at idle. How do they know? What did they test?
__________________
2009 335i Coupe - LBM - Black Dakota/Glacier aluminum - 6spd | Nav | M-Sport | Premium | Logic7 | Heated Seats | CA |BMW Performance Suspension/M3 control arms|
2009 X5 3.0 - AW- Black Dakota/Bamboo | Premium |Tech | Cold Weather | Ipod | Rear Climate |
07 X3 - Sold
07 335 coupe - sold
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-27-2014, 07:48 AM
jigray3 jigray3 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Richmond, VA
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 159
Mein Auto: e39, e93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchme View Post
Very good advice, Mr. Incredible's day job, anyone? He has to deny claims to be a well-performing employee.
Who, me? Nope, just been around the block a few times.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-27-2014, 08:05 AM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ/Philly
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,469
Mein Auto: '06 AW 330xi
http://workshop-manuals.com/bmw/3_se...er_head_(n54)/
__________________

| LCI Msport Conversion | Exotic Tuning Front Lip | H&R Coilovers | M3 Subframe Bushings | Custom Polyurethane Shore A90 Tension Strut Bushings | E93 M3 23.6mm Rear Sway Bar | Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar | Custom Heim Joint Rear Control Arms | Apex ARC-8 | Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec | Modified Dinan Cold Air Intake | aFe Oiled Drop-in Filter | Custom Hand-Made LED Angel Eyes | Alpine MRP-M500 | Custom LED Reverse Lights | OEM Blacklines | BMW Performance Trunk Spoiler |
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-06-2015, 08:24 AM
Yellow13 Yellow13 is offline
Registered User
Location: Arkansas
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: BMW e46 325i ZSP
Hello, I am Mec11's son.

It has been on ongoing fight with the warranty company since the claim was submitted. (Route 66) They replaced the water pump without hesitation. However, at the certified shop, the owner inspected the cylinders via borescope. He said that 2 of the cylinders were "steamed". All three of us (shop owner, my father and myself) also put water back into the system and upon further inspection found that there was oil sitting in the expansion tank. We pulled the cap and sure enough, emulsified: milky substance on the oil cap. Therefore we know that the headgasket is done. We are praying that the block is straight along with the head and that the block does not have any cracked or collapsed water jackets. We do not think so due to the water mix with oil. (pressure would force oil into water but not exchange).
We are in January 2015 now and the water pump failure took place back in October 2014. The car still sits in our driveway and has yet to be fixed. If I or my father touch it, we both know the warranty company would void it.

The question is...Why didn't the DME shut the engine off after the failure? These cars do have a very sophisticated limp mode that will allow you to continue to drive with the water pump not operating but, not very far. My dad told me and the shop and the warranty company that as soon as the red light came up on the cluster when he pulled into his parking spot at work, the car shut down. Perhaps the temp was high enough that when the DME shut the car down the residual temp lifted the gasket?

Currently, the State insurance department is conducting an Area Market Study to investigate if this has happened to anyone else in the State. The case after being handed to The Better Business Bureau, is now on its way to the state legal office.

My dad called BMW of Little Rock yesterday and spoke with the service adviser and informed him (without the knowledge of the situation) that the repair cost would be ~$4,300 labor + parts cost. So ~$5,000-ish. All of the indy shops would rather replace the engine than to replace the headgasket. So, for now, its looking like we will wait for the lawyers to fight to the death and see how this turns out. The last thing my dad wants to do is give up and get rid of the car.

Has anyone else experienced or dealt or even heard things about the warranty company Route 66?

Thanks for reading! We will let you know how this plays out in the future! I'll share my E30/S62 build thread when I am done with it!

Last edited by Yellow13; 01-06-2015 at 08:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-06-2015, 09:46 AM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ/Philly
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,469
Mein Auto: '06 AW 330xi
Let's step back a bit.

When your pump failed and your car warned you the engine was overheating, how long did you drive for?

Milkly coolant is not always a sign of a blown head gasket. Frequent short distance driving can cause milky coolant. A bad PCV system can cause milky coolant as well.

I suggest you have a compression/leak down test performed.
__________________

| LCI Msport Conversion | Exotic Tuning Front Lip | H&R Coilovers | M3 Subframe Bushings | Custom Polyurethane Shore A90 Tension Strut Bushings | E93 M3 23.6mm Rear Sway Bar | Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar | Custom Heim Joint Rear Control Arms | Apex ARC-8 | Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec | Modified Dinan Cold Air Intake | aFe Oiled Drop-in Filter | Custom Hand-Made LED Angel Eyes | Alpine MRP-M500 | Custom LED Reverse Lights | OEM Blacklines | BMW Performance Trunk Spoiler |
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-06-2015, 09:57 AM
galahad05's Avatar
galahad05 galahad05 is offline
Better with Butter
Location: Long Island, NY
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,455
Mein Auto: 335i sedan 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdriller9 View Post
Let's step back a bit.

When your pump failed and your car warned you the engine was overheating, how long did you drive for?

Milkly coolant is not always a sign of a blown head gasket. Frequent short distance driving can cause milky coolant. A bad PCV system can cause milky coolant as well.

I suggest you have a compression/leak down test performed.
Heck, even a leaking oil filter housing gasket can cause the milky coolant.
__________________
Don't resent growing old. Many are denied the privilege.
-- Irish Proverb

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-06-2015, 10:05 AM
galahad05's Avatar
galahad05 galahad05 is offline
Better with Butter
Location: Long Island, NY
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,455
Mein Auto: 335i sedan 6MT
Step one should be a compression test to MAKE SURE that you have a blown head gasket. There are too many other ways to get cross-contamination to say for sure that you have the blown gasket.
__________________
Don't resent growing old. Many are denied the privilege.
-- Irish Proverb

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-06-2015, 10:08 AM
Yellow13 Yellow13 is offline
Registered User
Location: Arkansas
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: BMW e46 325i ZSP
No signs of oil leak on anything prior. I would inspect the car at least once every week if not every other week.

I was not present for the event. From what my dad tells me, the yellow limp mode light came on about a half mile before his parking spot, pulled into his spot, cluster popped up the red limp mode light and shut off.

As for the coolant, it wasn't all that milky. The oil was sitting on top of the water and when I stirred it to see if it would dilute back into the water, it just floated back to the top.

It was rather odd.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-06-2015, 10:36 AM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ/Philly
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,469
Mein Auto: '06 AW 330xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow13 View Post
No signs of oil leak on anything prior. I would inspect the car at least once every week if not every other week.

I was not present for the event. From what my dad tells me, the yellow limp mode light came on about a half mile before his parking spot, pulled into his spot, cluster popped up the red limp mode light and shut off.

As for the coolant, it wasn't all that milky. The oil was sitting on top of the water and when I stirred it to see if it would dilute back into the water, it just floated back to the top.

It was rather odd.
If the car wasn't driven for an extended period after getting the red warning, I HIGHLY doubt the head gasket is blown.

The red warning means the engine is ABOUT to overheat and cause damage. It does not indicate that the motor has already overheated.

As mentioned, it's very difficult to overheat the motors in newer cars.

I am not surprised the warranty company is denying your head gasket claim.
__________________

| LCI Msport Conversion | Exotic Tuning Front Lip | H&R Coilovers | M3 Subframe Bushings | Custom Polyurethane Shore A90 Tension Strut Bushings | E93 M3 23.6mm Rear Sway Bar | Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar | Custom Heim Joint Rear Control Arms | Apex ARC-8 | Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec | Modified Dinan Cold Air Intake | aFe Oiled Drop-in Filter | Custom Hand-Made LED Angel Eyes | Alpine MRP-M500 | Custom LED Reverse Lights | OEM Blacklines | BMW Performance Trunk Spoiler |

Last edited by fdriller9; 01-06-2015 at 10:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-06-2015, 10:54 AM
Yellow13 Yellow13 is offline
Registered User
Location: Arkansas
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: BMW e46 325i ZSP
I am open minded. Explain your thoughts coolant/oil exchange without a blown headgasket. I am in no way forming an argument, I just want to hear other people's thoughts.

I see someone mentioned through the PCV system, how so?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-06-2015, 11:02 AM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ/Philly
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,469
Mein Auto: '06 AW 330xi
Frequent short distance driving does not allow the motor to reach operating temps. When this happens, moisture in the oil does not get burned off and starts to form condensation in the valve cover and other parts of the motor. Milky coolant is caused by oil mixing with water, not coolant/antifreeze. When the condensation does not burn off, it starts mixing with the oil and causes milky coolant. This is common on city driven cars and is often misdiagnosed as a blown head gasket. A long drive will return the oil back to normal.

One of the jobs of the PCV system is collect and expel moisture from the engine. A bad PCV valve, which is not uncommon on the N54 motor, can block the air flow and prevent the PCV system from doing its job. This can result is milky oil. You can upgrade the PCV valve with RBs solution.

Your oil filter housing is cooled via coolant. The OFHG gasket can fail and allow coolant and oil to mix. This is rare though. Any other component that with oil and coolant paths sharing a gasket can fail in the same way.
__________________

| LCI Msport Conversion | Exotic Tuning Front Lip | H&R Coilovers | M3 Subframe Bushings | Custom Polyurethane Shore A90 Tension Strut Bushings | E93 M3 23.6mm Rear Sway Bar | Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar | Custom Heim Joint Rear Control Arms | Apex ARC-8 | Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec | Modified Dinan Cold Air Intake | aFe Oiled Drop-in Filter | Custom Hand-Made LED Angel Eyes | Alpine MRP-M500 | Custom LED Reverse Lights | OEM Blacklines | BMW Performance Trunk Spoiler |
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-06-2015, 11:15 AM
Yellow13 Yellow13 is offline
Registered User
Location: Arkansas
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: BMW e46 325i ZSP
I should have known that dealing with E46/E39s all of the time.

That is a pretty reasonable theory. However, the car is driven approximately 75 miles round trip each day. So that would rule out the short driving scenario.

BUT....the water pump was replaced after the "event" so could it be possible that only now, the PCV system is failing? When the car was backed off of the tow truck from the shop, it idled fine, no issues, no tell-tale "white sweet smoke". Its possible that it was not idling long enough though. But, the expansion tank contains oil and the cap is milky. Wish it had a dipstick...

When I plug into the car, (BavTech) it reads the oil quality is "2". Is that a percentage, or rating to 10 or 5 or what?
Beleive me, I know my way around BMWs quite well but the N54 engine is a-whole-nother world to me that I know only the basics on. I thought it would be more simple than the S54, S62, S65, and S85...nope. That might be because of the lack of FI on them though.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-06-2015, 11:16 AM
Yellow13 Yellow13 is offline
Registered User
Location: Arkansas
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: BMW e46 325i ZSP
Are there any major indicators that point out the PCV is at fault or faulty?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-06-2015, 11:24 AM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ/Philly
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,469
Mein Auto: '06 AW 330xi
Excessive white smoke out the exhaust, yellow or white film in intake system, excessive oil consumption
__________________

| LCI Msport Conversion | Exotic Tuning Front Lip | H&R Coilovers | M3 Subframe Bushings | Custom Polyurethane Shore A90 Tension Strut Bushings | E93 M3 23.6mm Rear Sway Bar | Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar | Custom Heim Joint Rear Control Arms | Apex ARC-8 | Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec | Modified Dinan Cold Air Intake | aFe Oiled Drop-in Filter | Custom Hand-Made LED Angel Eyes | Alpine MRP-M500 | Custom LED Reverse Lights | OEM Blacklines | BMW Performance Trunk Spoiler |
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-06-2015, 12:07 PM
Yellow13 Yellow13 is offline
Registered User
Location: Arkansas
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: BMW e46 325i ZSP
This film, is it like a coating on the intake boots? We aren't driving the car right now because of the warranty company. We do not want to risk voiding it. Hmm...I might try to start it and see if I can get any coolant exhaust smells. Do you how long the car needs to idle before expelling this smoke? I really don't want to drive it or run it any longer than needed. If there is something very messed up with it, I do not want to make it any worse. ...risky risky.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2007 335i sedan, e90, n54


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms