Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)

E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #126  
Old 12-21-2011, 04:05 PM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
hello x26: the SA still hasn't call back yet I am wondering what took so long? I doubt I am getting my car back tonite and that gets me really anxious
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 12-21-2011, 04:35 PM
x26's Avatar
x26 x26 is offline
*** Team America ***
Location: "Kingdom of Heaven"
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 183
Mein Auto: 335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by terri_atl View Post
hello x26: the SA still hasn't call back yet I am wondering what took so long? I doubt I am getting my car back tonite and that gets me really anxious
Tell that DeadBeat Dealer to Fix your F##@&&%ing Car!!!

Don't let them Dupe You!!

What's the Name of the Dealer so we can all send them a "Bag of Coal" for Christmas!!
__________________

Last edited by x26; 12-21-2011 at 04:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 12-21-2011, 05:13 PM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
Global Imports. Please don't send them any "coal" before they fix my car. I wonder if they are trying to stall this matter until I will "surrender" & say I will pay for the battery. I won't be able to sleep well tonite, wondering what they doing to my car.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 12-21-2011, 05:18 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,718
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by terri_atl View Post
Hi yikes, Sunny, Ctuna and all..

I have dropped my car this morning for another round of checkup.. The SA just called and said the #1 cause is Terminal 15 was on (according to the diagnostic test). He said basically that is like leaving the keyfob in the car. I told him that's totally an error then cos I live on the 9th floor, the car parked on the 5th. I locked my car every time I parked and of cos the keyfob goes with me home on the 9th. He said he understood what I was saying, but if they submit the test to BMW, BMW will not pay for the new battery. I said that was the same diagnosis the last time, Terminal 15 was on. But that time no one wanted to explain about #1 Cause, ie terminal 15 was on but all blamed it on my "unfavorable driving pattern". So I told him I should not be paying the battery cos now he was telling me the cause of this irrational battery pattern was due to "Terminal 15"? He said he would talk to his Manager. That was more than an hour ago when he called, he hasn't call back. So I am wondering even if the battery is replaced, the problem, ie the faulty Terminal 15 , still needs to be fixed. Seems like their solution is just to replace battery.
He said it was "like leaving the keyfob in the car". Does this mean he performed the test with the keyfob outside of the car and obtained this result? From what I've been able to research Terminal 15 on is essentially "Leaving the key on". Is it his conclusion you've been leaving the key on?

This may be of some help:

http://www.justanswer.com/bmw/1fqya-...atic-mode.html

Most importantly a way to diagnosis is to see if the calibration sequence is repeated once the key is "removed" from the car and the alloted time passed (15 seconds). I would recommend you put the key in, turn the car on, and see if the headlight calibration sequence occurs. Then remove the key, wait 15 (or 30) seconds, then turn the car back on. If the car performs the calibration sequence again then the car recognized the key was removed. If not then that would indicate a problem. At least that's the way I'm reading it. And, of course, this may not be a definitive test.

While I'm no expert it stands to reason if the keyfob is not in the car and the diagnosis comes back with an error indicating a condition as if the keyfob is in the car then there is a problem with the car that needs to be fixed. And until it is fixed a replacement battery will be subject to the same issue and end up in the same condition as your current battery.

Does you car have Comfort Access?

As for the unfavorable driving conditions I assumed you explained to him you have been taking the car out for long drives on the weekends?

Last edited by sunny5280; 12-21-2011 at 05:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 12-21-2011, 05:39 PM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
Sunny!!!! Yes I told him the car has been out many days a week on the highways at least 30mins. Thanks to someone in this forum, I actually learned how to test the voltage on the car battery when car is idle or when it is moving using whatever is on the car. I even logged down that info for the past 5 days. I have also given a list of dates which have the "Increased Battery Discharge" warning. Btw, after having the car out 5 out of 7 days last week, 2 days ago I have the "Battery Charged Level Low" popped up.

The SA did say it is like having "the key inside the car" which you know how can it be possible when I live in a highrise condo where I park on the 5th floor and live on the 9th floor. The parking deck is 3rd-7th. There is no way anyone can say my keyfob is in the car or near the car. After I explained to him, he said he understood what I was saying but if they are to submit the report to BMW, BMW is not going to pay for the battery. I am not sure why he just said battery, I hope he meant they will also fix the problem and get that battery replaced. But that doesn't mean I have to pay for the battery when actually this whole episode stemming from November could be all caused by "terminal 15". I don't know exactly how they run the test, he just said they run diagnostics and no matter how they test, the cause was "terminal 15 was on".

Guess I am not getting my car back since it is already after 7pm. I miss my car. I have gotten a loaner, it's just different and really uncomfortable.

Oh, and my car does have comfort access.
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:02 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,718
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by terri_atl View Post
Sunny!!!! Yes I told him the car has been out many days a week on the highways at least 30mins. Thanks to someone in this forum, I actually learned how to test the voltage on the car battery when car is idle or when it is moving using whatever is on the car. I even logged down that info for the past 5 days. I have also given a list of dates which have the "Increased Battery Discharge" warning. Btw, after having the car out 5 out of 7 days last week, 2 days ago I have the "Battery Charged Level Low" popped up.

The SA did say it is like having "the key inside the car" which you know how can it be possible when I live in a highrise condo where I park on the 5th floor and live on the 9th floor. The parking deck is 3rd-7th. There is no way anyone can say my keyfob is in the car or near the car. After I explained to him, he said he understood what I was saying but if they are to submit the report to BMW, BMW is not going to pay for the battery. I am not sure why he just said battery, I hope he meant they will also fix the problem and get that battery replaced. But that doesn't mean I have to pay for the battery when actually this whole episode stemming from November could be all caused by "terminal 15". I don't know exactly how they run the test, he just said they run diagnostics and no matter how they test, the cause was "terminal 15 was on".

Guess I am not getting my car back since it is already after 7pm. I miss my car. I have gotten a loaner, it's just different and really uncomfortable.

Oh, and my car does have comfort access.
I take your not getting the car back as a good thing...at least for the moment. I suspect the service department is attempting to look further into the problem.

With that said if the #1 diagnosis is "Terminal 15 On" and the key is not in the car then there is a problem with the car and it needs to be fixed. Unless it's his position you are leaving the key in the car.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:12 PM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
sunny: I hope you are right about that part, ie they are looking into the problem. I don't think any logical person will believe I will leave my key in my car when it is a non private garage. I don't think he believes the key was really in the car from the last conversation, ie why he said if they submit the report, BMW is not going to pay for the battery. He sounded like he was in a difficult position. But it is not fair to make me pay when clearly there is a problem and it's just one of those faults ie not in any typical situation.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:29 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,718
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by terri_atl View Post
sunny: I hope you are right about that part, ie they are looking into the problem. I don't think any logical person will believe I will leave my key in my car when it is a non private garage. I don't think he believes the key was really in the car from the last conversation, ie why he said if they submit the report, BMW is not going to pay for the battery. He sounded like he was in a difficult position. But it is not fair to make me pay when clearly there is a problem and it's just one of those faults ie not in any typical situation.
I don't think he's in a difficult position. It's his job to properly diagnosis and fix the problem. If the car doesn't shut down because it cannot detect the key has been removed from the vehicle despite the fact it has then it's broken. Given the information we have it's the only rational explanation.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:56 PM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
Sunny: I have a feeling he was supposed to ask me to pay for the battery. I have heard dealer has to fork out the battery if it is not covered by BMW. I am sure Global Imports or any dealer will try not to pay if possible. So perhaps usually when "terminal 15 was on", this fault may just applied to people who have their own garage., just thankfully at this time, I have none.

I have read from the warranty booklet on the Battery Care, it states "if car is driven short distances of less than 10 miles over a prolonged period of time, without an occasional drive at highway speeds, the engine's charging system will not maintain the battery." Clearly, I have been taking care of the battery and I have not abused the battery based on BMW's standard. So my warranty of the battery should not be voided. Btw, I have also read up, it does not state anywhere in the Service & Warranty Information that battery is not covered under the warranty. Regardless, even though say someone has own private garage and my same issue happens to them, BMW should still cover it unless the owner repeatedly does the placing keyfob in the car after getting battery replaced before.

Totally agree something is broken
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 12-21-2011, 07:56 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,718
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by terri_atl View Post
Sunny: I have a feeling he was supposed to ask me to pay for the battery. I have heard dealer has to fork out the battery if it is not covered by BMW. I am sure Global Imports or any dealer will try not to pay if possible. So perhaps usually when "terminal 15 was on", this fault may just applied to people who have their own garage., just thankfully at this time, I have none.

I have read from the warranty booklet on the Battery Care, it states "if car is driven short distances of less than 10 miles over a prolonged period of time, without an occasional drive at highway speeds, the engine's charging system will not maintain the battery." Clearly, I have been taking care of the battery and I have not abused the battery based on BMW's standard. So my warranty of the battery should not be voided. Btw, I have also read up, it does not state anywhere in the Service & Warranty Information that battery is not covered under the warranty. Regardless, even though say someone has own private garage and my same issue happens to them, BMW should still cover it unless the owner repeatedly does the placing keyfob in the car after getting battery replaced before.

Totally agree something is broken
If the #1 cause of the battery discharge is the "Terminal 15 On" issue then you, nor the dealer, should have to cover the cost of a new battery. The "Terminal 15 On" issue likely resulted in damage to the battery and therefore should be covered as part of the repair.
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 12-21-2011, 09:04 PM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
Not sure, the SA did say if they submit the report, BMW is not going to pay for the battery
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 12-22-2011, 12:19 PM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
Ok this is sounding crazy! My SA finally called, he said he has spoken to his Manager and the most they can do is not charge any labor cost. Battery? $258!! I said I have looked up the warranty booklet that came with the car, battery is under warranty. Told him I got the car for less than a year and something is broken. He said unfortunately for that particular fault, BMW will not cover the battery. Told the SA it is not fair cos the reason of this whole episode is "key in the car or leaving the radio on every time" which is what this "Terminal 15 was on". The SA said he agreed with me (ie not fair for me cos there is no way I would have do that in a condo bldg), I have also asked battery aside if they are going to fix the problem since the car is not sleeping. He said no cos they don't find any problem. This is really confusing me. Anyway, I said Global Imports should do a courtesy swap, he said he would talk to the manager again.
__________________

2011 328i Convertible | Black Sapphire Metallic | Black Dakota Leather | Bamboo Anthracite Wood Trim| Sports | Premium | Comfort Access | Heated Seats | Navigation | Harmon Kardon | iPod/USB

Last edited by terri_atl; 12-23-2011 at 02:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 12-22-2011, 01:18 PM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
Deleted.

Another update: The SA called this morning, said the battery replacement is what they will recommend me. There is still abit life in the battery. Same position $258 for battery, no labor cost

Told him I will drive over and talk to the manager.

Last edited by terri_atl; 12-23-2011 at 07:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 12-23-2011, 05:53 PM
XXX555 XXX555 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S. Florida
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 270
Mein Auto: 2012 M3 cab
high battery discharge here today with low battery, twice in over two years....
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 12-23-2011, 07:19 PM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX555 View Post
high battery discharge here today with low battery, twice in over two years....
hi xxx555, my case it is 3 times within 9 months, or is it 4 times? Got it brand new in March. So this whole $0 maintenance & 4 years warranty is just marketing gimmick cos clearly battery is covered warranty, but oh wait cos of one or more particular reason, BMW won't pay for it

So given no choice, I have actually agreed to replace the battery

What about you? have you sent your car in and what reason or diagnostic the service center told you?
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 12-23-2011, 07:26 PM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
Latest update: Spoke to Service Director and prepared to call it a lemon. Even show him my key ring with elevator key fob, car fob and condo door key. There is no way anyone can accuse me of leaving my car fob in the car, leaving the car unlocked or leaving the radio to drain the car. I am no homeless and don't live inside my car.

But there is just no way to get a courtesy swap or make them honor the warranty for battery. Agreed to pay $258 for the battery but I want the BMW engineer who comes into that service center twice a month to check on this car and I want to meet him. He is scheduled to come in the first week of January 2012. No one in the service center can explain to me why the power is on when clearly I turn off everything n lock my car every time.
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 12-23-2011, 08:59 PM
Lufthansa Lufthansa is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Arizona
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 779
Mein Auto: 2010 E92; '07Lexus GS350
As an aside, I have the BMW alarm system, and it appears that when I lock my car by any means, the alarm is activated, thereby obviously putting a drain on the battery. Is there a way of locking my car and NOT activating the alarm (such as when I park it in my driveway after washing it)? I have Comfort Access, if that means anything.

Thanks for any enlightenment.
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:47 PM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lufthansa View Post
As an aside, I have the BMW alarm system, and it appears that when I lock my car by any means, the alarm is activated, thereby obviously putting a drain on the battery. Is there a way of locking my car and NOT activating the alarm (such as when I park it in my driveway after washing it)? I have Comfort Access, if that means anything.

Thanks for any enlightenment.
Hi Lufthansa, oh my.. thank goodness I don't have the BMW alarm system even though I have the "indicator" thing under the mirror (Don't ask me why). If I have, they going to say "aha, look! you have the alarm draining the battery"

But logically that's the whole purpose of having an alarm, you lock the door, alarm is activated. I have comfort access too. I am bad in analyzing this whole battery draining thing. Hopefully someone has some enlightenment for you I am eager to learn something too.
__________________

2011 328i Convertible | Black Sapphire Metallic | Black Dakota Leather | Bamboo Anthracite Wood Trim| Sports | Premium | Comfort Access | Heated Seats | Navigation | Harmon Kardon | iPod/USB
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 12-24-2011, 10:02 PM
Bimmer4life Bimmer4life is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: FL
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 406
Mein Auto: 2011 335i
Issue Seems Common Among Owners

My car is a 2011 about 1 yr old now, a few weeks ago I got the Increased Battery Discharge message on my navi. I have comfort access w/ alarm. I have not left the key fob inside, nor the lights or the ignition on. The message went away once I drove it the next day on the highway for 30 mins. A few weeks later I got the same message again, I know for sure I am not leaving anything on. I wonder if the alarm is draining the battery.

I called my SA and he said the increased battery discharge he has heard other owners having the same issue. I've also had issues with my alarm disarming when I lightly touch my door handle, key fob in my pocket, alarm is going off, I'm looking stupid and I have to reach in my pocket to disarm the alarm and then I am getting random messages appear that a door is open when I am driving and I know for certain there is no door open on my car. So something is going on electrically with my car so I have an appoint next week.

I also have slight turbo lag in D mode from 0-20 mph that is noticable. So we will see what they say.
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 12-24-2011, 11:19 PM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer4life View Post
My car is a 2011 about 1 yr old now, a few weeks ago I got the Increased Battery Discharge message on my navi. I have comfort access w/ alarm. I have not left the key fob inside, nor the lights or the ignition on. The message went away once I drove it the next day on the highway for 30 mins. A few weeks later I got the same message again, I know for sure I am not leaving anything on. I wonder if the alarm is draining the battery.

I called my SA and he said the increased battery discharge he has heard other owners having the same issue. I've also had issues with my alarm disarming when I lightly touch my door handle, key fob in my pocket, alarm is going off, I'm looking stupid and I have to reach in my pocket to disarm the alarm and then I am getting random messages appear that a door is open when I am driving and I know for certain there is no door open on my car. So something is going on electrically with my car so I have an appoint next week.

I also have slight turbo lag in D mode from 0-20 mph that is noticable. So we will see what they say.
It doesn't help when I run my car a few times a week with 30mins each trip. In the end I have a "Battery Charged Level Low". At least your SA acknowledged about the issue. Mine and my service center initially want to pin on my low miles in the car. Now they just say ignition off, power on.

I will update here in case anyone is interested in knowing. I find it awful when they simply assume "Terminal 15 was on" is based on owner's leaving keyfob in car or leaving the radio on night after night. I don't live inside the car but 4 concrete floors above where the car parked and actually the other side 4 floors up.

Merry X'mas to you and everyone here
__________________

2011 328i Convertible | Black Sapphire Metallic | Black Dakota Leather | Bamboo Anthracite Wood Trim| Sports | Premium | Comfort Access | Heated Seats | Navigation | Harmon Kardon | iPod/USB
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 12-25-2011, 09:54 AM
Lufthansa Lufthansa is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Arizona
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 779
Mein Auto: 2010 E92; '07Lexus GS350
Terri.

I'll be very interested in knowing how your situation turns out. Thank you for your posts so far.
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 12-25-2011, 11:14 AM
terri_atl terri_atl is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 340
Mein Auto: 2011 328i Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lufthansa View Post
Terri.

I'll be very interested in knowing how your situation turns out. Thank you for your posts so far.
Hi hi Will definitely post something back when I meet with the BMW engineer in January
__________________

2011 328i Convertible | Black Sapphire Metallic | Black Dakota Leather | Bamboo Anthracite Wood Trim| Sports | Premium | Comfort Access | Heated Seats | Navigation | Harmon Kardon | iPod/USB
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 12-29-2011, 04:32 PM
dkotanto dkotanto is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 543
Mein Auto: 2006 BMW 530i sport
You should have called BMW NA and complained. The battery, if that is what they recommended to be replaced in their final diagnosis, is covered under the warranty and should be replaced for free. Period.
__________________
2007 530 xi
2004 X3 3.0i
2006 530i
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 12-29-2011, 05:19 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,718
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by terri_atl View Post
Latest update: Spoke to Service Director and prepared to call it a lemon. Even show him my key ring with elevator key fob, car fob and condo door key. There is no way anyone can accuse me of leaving my car fob in the car, leaving the car unlocked or leaving the radio to drain the car. I am no homeless and don't live inside my car.

But there is just no way to get a courtesy swap or make them honor the warranty for battery. Agreed to pay $258 for the battery but I want the BMW engineer who comes into that service center twice a month to check on this car and I want to meet him. He is scheduled to come in the first week of January 2012. No one in the service center can explain to me why the power is on when clearly I turn off everything n lock my car every time.
I would not agree to pay for a new battery. There is a problem with the car that damaged it. The short driving distances aren't the problem. Insist they fix the underlying problem.
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 12-29-2011, 05:27 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,718
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lufthansa View Post
As an aside, I have the BMW alarm system, and it appears that when I lock my car by any means, the alarm is activated, thereby obviously putting a drain on the battery. Is there a way of locking my car and NOT activating the alarm (such as when I park it in my driveway after washing it)? I have Comfort Access, if that means anything.

Thanks for any enlightenment.
All my X5's have had the factory alarm. I've never had an increased battery discharge problem with any of them despite short driving distances.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms