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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

View Poll Results: 335i v 328i
328i 55 54.46%
335i 46 45.54%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 12-06-2011, 07:44 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
The fact of the matter is you can't dispute the laws of physics. And I'll refer you to my first post.

The fact, whether appreciated by the majority of individuals, is the the inline six cylinder design is inherently balanced and the inline four cylinder is not, cannot and never will be a naturally balanced design. That sounds to me more like the characteristics of the album with the inline six matching more closely the characteristics of the CD.
Apparently you missed the point of the analogy.

Last edited by sunny5280; 12-06-2011 at 07:45 PM.
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  #27  
Old 12-06-2011, 07:46 PM
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History tends to repeat itself and the 335 has quite a history.
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  #28  
Old 12-06-2011, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Apparently you missed the point of the analogy.
Or I didn't think the analogy worked. Going from the vinyl album to the CD was a move forward. I do not see replacing the inline six, which is at the very core of who BMW is as a company, as a move forward no matter the HP & TQ.
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  #29  
Old 12-07-2011, 05:40 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Or I didn't think the analogy worked. Going from the vinyl album to the CD was a move forward. I do not see replacing the inline six, which is at the very core of who BMW is as a company, as a move forward no matter the HP & TQ.
Not according to audiophiles. They, like you, will bring out all kinds of cool sounding descriptions (such as "buttery smooth") and technical theory to "prove" the superiority of the LP. Meanwhile the rest of the world is enjoying the benefits of the CD even if, technically, the LP is better in one or two areas.
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  #30  
Old 12-07-2011, 08:45 AM
7or8 7or8 is offline
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We're in a transition period. Eventually 4 cylinders turbos will be everywhere. Then 4 cylinder turbo hybrids. Then on from there. Soon will come the day that 4cyl turbo's and accompanying mechanics are perfected to the point that no one misses an inline 6. And we'll all get better gas mileage to boot. Got to start somewhere, at some time. Many of us will probably, in our lifetime, see the move to something else like hydrogen.. who knows. The future of cars could be great.

I just find it sad that as a human race we push back so hard on anything that may help the environment if it inconveniences us even a little. I mean, we can't even put up wind farms cause "it messes up my window view." Sad.
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  #31  
Old 12-07-2011, 09:40 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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I just find it sad that as a human race we push back so hard on anything that may help the environment if it inconveniences us even a little. I mean, we can't even put up wind farms cause "it messes up my window view." Sad.
I can only speak for myself but I don't like the idea of someone else deciding what is right and then pushing that agenda off on others. While I am not against helping the environment (and do my part where I can) I'm sick of the green movement.
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  #32  
Old 12-07-2011, 11:11 AM
jackson328xi jackson328xi is offline
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
I can only speak for myself but I don't like the idea of someone else deciding what is right and then pushing that agenda off on others. While I am not against helping the environment (and do my part where I can) I'm sick of the green movement.
We should tax fuel to make it reflect the real cost of burning it. Account for the externality of pollution etc and give people the freedom to choose what they want to do. If the real cost of burning a gallon of gas is $8 (or whatever) when you factor in environmental impacts fine. Charge $8 and let us make up our own minds about how much we want to use at that point.

On that note, I would venture to guess that it is more environmentally friendly to buy 1 335i and keep it for the entire several year life cycle than it would be to buy/lease 2 or 3 328s over the same period. It takes a lot of energy to build these cars.
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  #33  
Old 12-07-2011, 11:28 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson328xi View Post
We should tax fuel to make it reflect the real cost of burning it. Account for the externality of pollution etc and give people the freedom to choose what they want to do. If the real cost of burning a gallon of gas is $8 (or whatever) when you factor in environmental impacts fine. Charge $8 and let us make up our own minds about how much we want to use at that point.
This is just another example of someone deciding what is "right" and attempting to push it on others.
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  #34  
Old 12-07-2011, 12:40 PM
7or8 7or8 is offline
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This is just another example of someone deciding what is "right" and attempting to push it on others.
Every law in existence is an example of someone deciding what is right and pushing it on others.
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  #35  
Old 12-07-2011, 12:44 PM
jackson328xi jackson328xi is offline
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
This is just another example of someone deciding what is "right" and attempting to push it on others.
The real cost of burning a gallon of gas is not an opinion up for debate. Even if we are not capable of finding the perfect number, the fact is out there for us to find.

As a consumer I would rather know how much my choices are going to cost me before I make them. You can't maximize your utility given limited resources if you don't have all of the information.

If you live in a heavily polluted city like I do, you understand what I am talking about. When I can't see the mountains on the other side of the valley, and there are abnormally high rates of respiratory illness, the cost becomes very real.

I agree with you that the "green movement" has good intentions, but leaves a lot to be desired in actual solutions.
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  #36  
Old 12-07-2011, 06:07 PM
4susan2 4susan2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
The fact of the matter is you can't dispute the laws of physics. And I'll refer you to my first post.

The fact, whether appreciated by the majority of individuals, is the the inline six cylinder design is inherently balanced and the inline four cylinder is not, cannot and never will be a naturally balanced design. That sounds to me more like the characteristics of the album with the inline six matching more closely the characteristics of the CD.
point taken- they used to demonstrate Benelli 6 cylinder motorcycles by staring it, putting a cigarette vertically on the tank, and running the engine to redline without the cigarette falling over. An inline six is naturally balanced, and that is a beautiful thing.
that being said, I'm more interested in a '3' with the DI turbo 4.
It's not just the price ( although that is a consideration) but the efficience, the total weight and the weight distribution for a smaller motor makes it very attractive. I believe that the 328 is going to be a better handling car than the 335, and nearly as fast... maybe even more tractable in daily dtiving
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  #37  
Old 12-07-2011, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 4susan2 View Post
point taken- they used to demonstrate Benelli 6 cylinder motorcycles by staring it, putting a cigarette vertically on the tank, and running the engine to redline without the cigarette falling over. An inline six is naturally balanced, and that is a beautiful thing.
that being said, I'm more interested in a '3' with the DI turbo 4.
It's not just the price ( although that is a consideration) but the efficience, the total weight and the weight distribution for a smaller motor makes it very attractive. I believe that the 328 is going to be a better handling car than the 335, and nearly as fast... maybe even more tractable in daily dtiving
+1 totally agree with all of this. The 328 is going to be a blast to drive
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  #38  
Old 12-08-2011, 05:12 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by 7or8 View Post
Every law in existence is an example of someone deciding what is right and pushing it on others.
Different context.
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  #39  
Old 12-08-2011, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
I can only speak for myself but I don't like the idea of someone else deciding what is right and then pushing that agenda off on others. While I am not against helping the environment (and do my part where I can) I'm sick of the green movement.
+1,000.
The "Green Movement" is such Bulls%$t
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  #40  
Old 12-08-2011, 09:39 PM
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  #41  
Old 12-09-2011, 10:32 AM
jackson328xi jackson328xi is offline
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Looks like the 335 votes are catching up with the 328.

Do you guys think that the N55 will have fewer issues than the N20 over time? The turbos are tuned to a lower pressure on the N55 (or am I wrong here?) and BMW has had a lot longer to perfect the turbo six with the N54/55. When the 335 first came out people were worried about the long term reliability of it vs the NA engines. I wonder if the tables have turned on this and the 335 will now be more viable for long term owners.
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  #42  
Old 12-10-2011, 07:36 AM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson328xi View Post
Looks like the 335 votes are catching up with the 328.

Do you guys think that the N55 will have fewer issues than the N20 over time? The turbos are tuned to a lower pressure on the N55 (or am I wrong here?) and BMW has had a lot longer to perfect the turbo six with the N54/55. When the 335 first came out people were worried about the long term reliability of it vs the NA engines. I wonder if the tables have turned on this and the 335 will now be more viable for long term owners.
For sure...the N20 looks like it may be problematic in this area.
But that's what BMW likes. Sells more cars in a shorter time ( or keeps you leasing)...and generates nice revenue for dealers service dept. after warranty
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  #43  
Old 12-10-2011, 07:53 AM
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For sure...the N20 looks like it may be problematic in this area.
But that's what BMW likes. Sells more cars in a shorter time ( or keeps you leasing)...and generates nice revenue for dealers service dept. after warranty
I like to feel more thrust under my rear, and don't think a 4 banger can do me?
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  #44  
Old 12-10-2011, 04:53 PM
jackson328xi jackson328xi is offline
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Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
For sure...the N20 looks like it may be problematic in this area.
But that's what BMW likes. Sells more cars in a shorter time ( or keeps you leasing)...and generates nice revenue for dealers service dept. after warranty
Sounds about right sadly. Makes it much more difficult to go for a BMW knowing the development checklist includes :

[X] will break in 3-5 years and be inexplicably expensive to repair.

I wish the business plan was simply "build the absolute best, most rewarding car you can and sales will be there".

On that note I believe the Porsche 911 (I want to say the 996) was just reported to have the fewest repair issues per unit compared to other used cars.

Last edited by jackson328xi; 12-10-2011 at 04:56 PM.
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  #45  
Old 12-10-2011, 05:03 PM
kck7 kck7 is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson328xi View Post
Looks like the 335 votes are catching up with the 328.

Do you guys think that the N55 will have fewer issues than the N20 over time? The turbos are tuned to a lower pressure on the N55 (or am I wrong here?) and BMW has had a lot longer to perfect the turbo six with the N54/55. When the 335 first came out people were worried about the long term reliability of it vs the NA engines. I wonder if the tables have turned on this and the 335 will now be more viable for long term owners.
This sounds logical. I would never buy a first-year engine/car/technology, having paid for doing so in the past. This N20 may be the Second Coming but atm it needs to prove itself and that ain't gonna happen overnight.
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  #46  
Old 12-10-2011, 05:21 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
For sure...the N20 looks like it may be problematic in this area.
But that's what BMW likes. Sells more cars in a shorter time ( or keeps you leasing)...and generates nice revenue for dealers service dept. after warranty
And you know this how?
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  #47  
Old 12-10-2011, 05:25 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson328xi View Post
Sounds about right sadly. Makes it much more difficult to go for a BMW knowing the development checklist includes :

[X] will break in 3-5 years and be inexplicably expensive to repair.

I wish the business plan was simply "build the absolute best, most rewarding car you can and sales will be there".

On that note I believe the Porsche 911 (I want to say the 996) was just reported to have the fewest repair issues per unit compared to other used cars.
You are not living in the real world. BMW has to consider cost as they are competing in a competitive market. And BMW does build rewarding cars. A lot of high tech materials and technology go into a 3 series. It's a very high quality car. Drive a loaded Ford Fusion as a comparison. Darn nice car but it's built to a price point and everything about it shows this.
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  #48  
Old 12-10-2011, 11:47 PM
jackson328xi jackson328xi is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
You are not living in the real world. BMW has to consider cost as they are competing in a competitive market. And BMW does build rewarding cars. A lot of high tech materials and technology go into a 3 series. It's a very high quality car. Drive a loaded Ford Fusion as a comparison. Darn nice car but it's built to a price point and everything about it shows this.
I completely agree with you about considering cost, and that BMW's are very rewarding to drive and own.

I think I am trying to say that there is clearly a higher level of reliability that can be achieved. Japanese companies can build a more reliable car for half the price (and half the fun). On the other hand, Porsche can build a more reliable car (for twice the price) that is far more performance oriented and rewarding to drive than a 3 series. I don't feel like those other companies know something the BMW engineers don't. I think it is a business model to keep the service department profitable.

Clearly I still think the trade off is worth it or I would not drive one. I suppose I should copy this to the F30 wish list.
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  #49  
Old 12-11-2011, 07:55 AM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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And you know this how?
Experience, intelligence...wake up & smell the coffee
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  #50  
Old 12-11-2011, 08:10 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson328xi View Post
I completely agree with you about considering cost, and that BMW's are very rewarding to drive and own.

I think I am trying to say that there is clearly a higher level of reliability that can be achieved. Japanese companies can build a more reliable car for half the price (and half the fun). On the other hand, Porsche can build a more reliable car (for twice the price) that is far more performance oriented and rewarding to drive than a 3 series. I don't feel like those other companies know something the BMW engineers don't. I think it is a business model to keep the service department profitable.

Clearly I still think the trade off is worth it or I would not drive one. I suppose I should copy this to the F30 wish list.
I agree with this 100%.
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