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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 12-01-2011, 02:44 PM
Quacker Quacker is offline
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Mein Auto: 2012 535i xDrive
Buy Back Advice Needed

Hi everyone!

I am so green when it comes to this that I don't even know what it's called when I ask them to take the car back and give me another. Advice from those that have been through the process would be greatly appreciated!

Without getting into a long discussion about what has gone wrong with this car, I can say that I believe that I've got a right to ask for a buy back since I have less than 6K mi and took delivery early march of this year. The car has been in the shop more than two accumulated weeks for at least two serious issues and several others. In fact, it's in there right now for what looks like a major issue. But on the matter of just who to contact to start the process and what to ask for - I'm clueless.

So:

What is this process really called?

Who do I need to speak with to start and finish it?

What can I expect?

What should I watch out for?

Can I negotiate for different option packages?

If the new car is ordered (likely), what can I get to drive until it arrives?

What about the existing financing in the mean time?

These are just a few of the many questions that are keeping me up at night. Your help will be truly valued.

Thanks,
Quacker
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2011, 05:57 PM
moe4ever moe4ever is offline
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Search for Lemon law, I dont have any experience with this, but there are a few threads that will point you in the right direction, goodluck.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2011, 06:04 PM
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chuck92116 chuck92116 is offline
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Here in California, you would not qualify for lemon law nor a courtesy buy back based on what you said thus far.

Our lemon law states any single repair in which the car has been in the shop more than 30 days or the same items failed and need to be repaired 3 or more times.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but it is not that bad.

However, if you have a laundry list of issues/failures that have occured on a regular basis over the past 9 months, you may be able to convince BMW to buy back the car and get you in another.

However, this is between you and BMWNA and not the dealer. You would need to write a letter to them certified mail. Having an attorney draw up the letter may help. But like I said, I don't believe your car qualifies as a lemon at this point.

BMW does not want to lemon a car unless they have to. Lemon means the lemon issue goes on the car's record and cannot be sold again by a dealer. It follows the car forever.

A courtesy buyback is where BMW wants to help a frustrated customer by buying the car back without lemoning the car. They can fix whatever is wrong and sell it again as a CPO. THis happens for example when someone buys a car and a repair is required but the part is not avaiable for more than 30 days. It is not really a lemon because it is more of a parts delay issue.

With courtesy buyback (do a search on the forum), BMW will buy back the car minus a deduction for mileage and they will provide good pricing on a replacement vehicle of your choosing. You may have to choose an in stock car, not sure on this.

If BMW has the exact car/equipment on the lot, they can even swap cars with you and change the VIN on your finance/lease paperwork without missing a beat on your payments. This is known as an "Equity Trade."

Remember the best thing for both parties is a courtesy buyback. Not a lemon. One takes days to a few weeks the other months of anguish.

BMW will do everything to make your car right first and foremost. Maybe the dealer is missing the mark on service and exacerbating the situation.

One thing you might do, is go over to the "ask a dealer" section and post the same question. They may have some more pointers for you.

A while back I had a 645ci. I had several issues wrong over a short period of time. I did not lemon or even suggest a buyback although I could have I suppose. What fixed everything was the BMW area rep coming by and checking up on the dealer/work being done. He found several issues with what was being done and got everything fixed. He even went above and beyond by replacing parts out of good will.

This is just a few things they did extra, The driver and passenger doors were scuffed a little from wear and tear. Both interior door panels were replaced free of charge. The car got a complete detail free of charge. Full tank of gas. New floor mats, and and iPOD adapter. About $2k in freebies.

So give BMW a chance to correct a frustrating situation. They do whatever they can to please a customer.
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Last edited by chuck92116; 12-01-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2011, 06:09 PM
tadtaggert tadtaggert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92116 View Post
However, this is between you and BMWNA and not the dealer. You would need to write a letter to them certified mail. Having an attorney draw up the letter may help. But like I said, I don't believe your car qualifies as a lemon at this point.
Contacting BMW NA is a good idea, even if you don't qualify for a buy back they can escalate issues, prod the dealer, bring in specialists.
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2011, 09:50 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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BMW bought back my F10 after I qualified for the lemon law. I first contacted BMW NA who opened a case. After a few weeks and many phone calls with no progress I tired and got a tip here to go via my dealer. I booked a meeting with the service manager and brought all documentation of the issues and the timeline. The service manager agreed immediately that it was unacceptable and promised to talk to the regional BMW representative. Three days later the dealer GM called me and offered a full price buyback and a very attractive offer on any new BMW. I could take one from his lot or any car in the country that could be released or order a car through normal delivery or euro delivery. However I would have to give up my car immediately and they would not give me a car to use if I ordered. If I decided to take a car that either was shipped from another dealer or from their lot I could use a loaner if I decided quickly. I have a feeling that these deals differs from case to case. They told me that my customer history with them made it an easy decision. I guess I've been a good customer with a quarter million or so spent on BMWs...

I've now put almost 13k miles on my new car and almost a year with absolutely zero issues, nada. I hope I don't jinx it now but this car feels solid and of very high quality as all new cars should. I have no complaints above how BMW handled the situation from start to end. With a good dealer they can be a class act.

Note. I did not pursue the lemon law at all, after I gave up on BMW NA I did everything through the dealer.

Last edited by solstice; 12-01-2011 at 10:04 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-01-2011, 10:45 PM
Raddius Raddius is offline
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My E60 buy back started with a certified letter to BMW NA. I mailed it on a Friday and by the following Monday I had spoken with a rep and had the buyback approved. He did mention I was lucky because the person that makes the decisions for my region is on the ball and good at responding quickly. It took the remainder of the week to finish the paperwork on both our ends. Another week or so after that to arrange and meet with the company that actually inspects and takes delivery of the vehicle. My process was incredibly smooth and quick and one of the reasons I chose another BMW.

Good luck to ya!
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2011, 06:37 AM
Quacker Quacker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddius View Post
My E60 buy back started with a certified letter to BMW NA. I mailed it on a Friday and by the following Monday I had spoken with a rep and had the buyback approved. He did mention I was lucky because the person that makes the decisions for my region is on the ball and good at responding quickly. It took the remainder of the week to finish the paperwork on both our ends. Another week or so after that to arrange and meet with the company that actually inspects and takes delivery of the vehicle. My process was incredibly smooth and quick and one of the reasons I chose another BMW.

Good luck to ya!
solstice seems to have crossed the lemon law threshold when he made the move. How about you? I don't think I'm quite that far downstream because no single issue was worked on for 3 or 4 service visits. It's just the cumulative effect of all the stuff that has gone on.

Would you have qualified for a lemon?
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2011, 07:36 AM
Raddius Raddius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacker View Post
solstice seems to have crossed the lemon law threshold when he made the move. How about you? I don't think I'm quite that far downstream because no single issue was worked on for 3 or 4 service visits. It's just the cumulative effect of all the stuff that has gone on.

Would you have qualified for a lemon?
Well, this can be all how you decide to look at it. I didn't have any single piece fixed the number of times required to meet the CA lemon law, but what I did was lump the separate items that were repaired/replaced under the same overall system, the fuel system. So 3 visits for 2 HPFP replacements + 1 recall replacement (not sure how this counted but I included it anyway), 1 visit for a low pressure fuel sensor, and one visit for all 6 injectors and spark plugs may not satisfy the lemon law as they are all technically different parts, but by writing it up so those were all failed attempts to fix the fuel system I think may have helped. I also mentioned the long crank was returning making the impending service visit my 3rd repair replacement and 4th HPFP overall.

It probably didn't hurt that the '08 E60 was well known for it's HPFP problems.

Keep in mind the way BMW probably sees it is it's much easier to do a buy back before the car has been declared a lemon. It's much easier to resell a car without that awesome yellow lemon sticker on the door sill.
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  #9  
Old 12-02-2011, 08:17 AM
radarguy radarguy is offline
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Quacker - First you have to have a reasonable leg to stand on. Even if you don't expect to lemon the car you should know what the alternatives are. See how close you come to meeting your lemon laws. Each state is different. In CT it is two failed attempts to fix safety related issues and four for other issues. Or 30 days out of service for multiple issues. If you qualify then plan on doing it in case you don't get satisfaction from BMW NA.

Second discuss it with your sales person and mention buy back or lemon. The CA should put you in touch with the right person in the dealership. Probably the sales manager or service manager or most likely both. It's good to have the people at the dealership aware of your situation and your dissatisfaction because BMW NA will contact the service manager. Have all of your paperwork handy and provide a nice package for the service manager so he knows how to respond when BMW NA calls.

Third write to BMW NA using the address in your warranty book. Forget email or phone because they do not connect you with the people that can respond to your problem. Certified mail is best. As stated by others, BMW NA is interested in keeping you as a satisfied customer and is especially interested in avoiding a lemon situation.
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  #10  
Old 12-02-2011, 08:59 AM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
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Mein Auto: 535iX M Sport; 328i Wagon
You may want to PM ard, who spends most his time on the E70 X5 forum. I know he has been through the process successfully, and may be able to offer you some advice.

AFAIK (and I have never gone the ****back route) the customer has to sign a non-disclosure agreement, so there may be limits to what can be disclosed in a public forum. What I do know for a fact is that, 9 times out of 10, a 'Fester who starts out ranting and raving about the God-awful problems comes away very, very happy with how BMW resolved the issue. Solstice is a great example. Hopefully, you will be as well served. Good Luck!
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  #11  
Old 12-05-2011, 12:37 PM
WineCountry WineCountry is offline
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Went through the buyback process with BMW back in 2006 for a 2004 550 that had tons of issues and spent forever in the dealer. They wouldn't lemon it because it just kept barely missing the requirements for a lemon, and we let too much time go by after we bought the car. Due to the overwhelming amount of problems and stress it caused, BMW took it back for high-market value and offered a deal on a custom order 2007 replacement. We dealt directly with the dealer, they had a rep that dealt specifically with this kind of problem and acted as the middle-man with BMW NA. Not sure who took the hit worst, our dealer or the company. Regardless, it was nice that they dealt with it promptly (and we didn't have to get an attorney) , however we STILL had to buy a new car, whether we wanted to or not. So that was the downside. Sorry, I probably didn't help you, but just giving my 2 cents on what happened with us.
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