2011 M3 sedan or 2012 S6

Thoughts?

Huge difference in these cars. One is a 4500lb cruiser; the other a sports car. Edmunds hates it. It took almost 6 seconds to go 0-60 ...

Audi usually gets high marks for interior design, so I'd expect that to be a win in this comparison.

With the cars that far apart in their capabilities - one comfy, awd with a big engine, the other somewhat high strung and firm, I'm not so sure the comparison is about the cars. I'd say you'll need to prioritize and value what each offers, and what you want/need from a car. THEN choose cars that fit.

>>Edmunds hates it. It took almost 6 seconds to go 0-60 ...<<

Lol, as someone who just turned 50 and has been a car nut since I was around 11 (when emissions standards and high gas prices were just starting to choke performance), I never thought I'd ever see a sub-6 second 0-60 time considered to be "slow." Does anyone remember when the original Saab turbo was considered to be pretty quick because it broke the 10-second barrier?

Originally Posted by mgcyr

Thoughts?

I agree with the others thoughts. I notice you indicated 'sedan'. That would be the last M3 sedan production year with the V8. So potentially pretty rare if you are looking at keeping it long term.

As usual a test drive would be in order. But I can tell you as an ex owner of a 535 xDrive (as is indicated in your signature) - the M3 blows the doors off it from a performance perspective.

Of course both the M3 and 535 are in different categories and both do their job very well in their own categories.

I would suspect the S6 would drive more like the 535x - which is more cruiser like.

One advantage the S6 or 535 xDrive for that matter would be winter driving. The M3 is pretty good with proper winter boots and where I am from in the GTA we don't really see that many snow storms.

However I see you are in Montreal which is a different story.

I agree. I'm having a tough time reconciling between awesome performance and mediocre interior (M3) and awesome interior and what I expect to be really good performance (S6).
I don't think there are any reviews out yet on the 2012 S6. Acceleration will be way better than 6 seconds.

http://www.edmunds.com/audi/s6/2011/...dan#fullreview

0-60 = 5.7

They go on to point out that it's barely quicker than the A6 3.0T.

Apparently there's a new, faster and more efficient version coming out in fall 2012 as a 2013 model ...

Although, they say it will GAIN 130lbs over the already giant 4500lb current version:

http://www.edmunds.com/audi/s6/2013/...dan#fullreview

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

http://www.edmunds.com/audi/s6/2011/...dan#fullreview

0-60 = 5.7

They go on to point out that it's barely quicker than the A6 3.0T.

Apparently there's a new, faster and more efficient version coming out in fall 2012 as a 2013 model ...

Although, they say it will GAIN 130lbs over the already giant 4500lb current version:

http://www.edmunds.com/audi/s6/2013/...dan#fullreview

I guess I'm talking about the 2013 in that case. My dealer led me to believe that it would be a 2012 model year (or maybe I simply assumed that). Either way, I would be looking at the twin turbo V8, and not the V10.

Originally Posted by mgcyr

I guess I'm talking about the 2013 in that case. My dealer led me to believe that it would be a 2012 model year (or maybe I simply assumed that). Either way, I would be looking at the twin turbo V8, and not the V10.

Probably talking $20k more than a similarly equipped M3. It's really more of an M5 comparison ...

Wait, didn't I just read that the A7 3.0 (not the S7) hits 60 in 4.9? How can the S6 be significantly slower off the line?

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

http://www.edmunds.com/audi/s6/2011/...dan#fullreview

0-60 = 5.7

They go on to point out that it's barely quicker than the A6 3.0T.

Apparently there's a new, faster and more efficient version coming out in fall 2012 as a 2013 model ...

Although, they say it will GAIN 130lbs over the already giant 4500lb current version:

http://www.edmunds.com/audi/s6/2013/...dan#fullreview

Originally Posted by rdollie

Wait, didn't I just read that the A7 3.0 (not the S7) hits 60 in 4.9? How can the S6 be significantly slower off the line?

Why would they build a 4500lb, all wheel drive tank and put their "S" designation on it at all?

Oh, wait, never mind.

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

Probably talking $20k more than a similarly equipped M3. It's really more of an M5 comparison ...

This is a concern. I don't find it worth more than the 550i. I would find the 550i and S6 comperable. I am not willing to pay $100,000 for an S6. It should be priced somewhere between a 550i and a CLS550. I'm frustrated that they have not yet released Canadian pricing. Any more than that and Audi is insane.

Originally Posted by mgcyr

This is a concern. I don't find it worth more than the 550i. I would find the 550i and S6 comperable. I am not willing to pay $100,000 for an S6. It should be priced somewhere between a 550i and a CLS550. I'm frustrated that they have not yet released Canadian pricing. Any more than that and Audi is insane.

Well the current version is almost $80k ... Its be more than a little surprised if the next version isn't more ...

Mercedes C63 AMG. 0-60 in 3.7.

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

Mercedes C63 AMG. 0-60 in 3.7.

I see the M3 won in the C&D Jan 2012 issue by fixing the results. Of course $66.1K vs $81K made a big difference. Watch out, all 911s. Don't look my way at the lights.

back to the OP, the sedan depreciates a lot more than the coupe. whole bunch for sale in cars.com

Originally Posted by Dave 330i

back to the OP, the sedan depreciates a lot more than the coupe. whole bunch for sale in cars.com

BS ...

Here's the LeaseCompare residuals for 2011 M3s ...

2011 BMW M3 Coupe Lease
24 Month – Residual 64% of MSRP – .00175 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 58% of MSRP – .00175 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 38% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 31% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate
2011 BMW M3 Sedan Lease
24 Month – Residual 64% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 58% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 38% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 30% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate

2011 BMW M3 Convertible Lease
24 Month – Residual 67% of MSRP – .00090 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00090 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 38% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 31% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate

Originally Posted by mgcyr

Thoughts?

That seems like an odd comparison. An S6 is much larger and has a different feel.

However, I have a 2009 M3 sedan and my brother in law has a 2011 S4, which I do feel are comparable cars. They are almost the same price.

The S4 looks fantastic, inside and out. The M3 _may_ look as good on the outside, but on the inside, there's no comparison. Also, the S4 is a low-end torque beast, similar to the 335. If you like accelerating fast from stop lights and around town, you'd definitely appreciate the S4 engine.

I still prefer my M3 (but not nearly as much as I expected I would), mainly because there is a certain lightness/quickness that the M3 has in handling that the S4 can't replicate and I love the 8400 redline...

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

BS ...

Here's the LeaseCompare residuals for 2011 M3s ...

2011 BMW M3 Coupe Lease
24 Month – Residual 64% of MSRP – .00175 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 58% of MSRP – .00175 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 38% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 31% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate
2011 BMW M3 Sedan Lease
24 Month – Residual 64% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 58% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 38% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 30% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate

2011 BMW M3 Convertible Lease
24 Month – Residual 67% of MSRP – .00090 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00090 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 38% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 31% of MSRP – .00200 Base Rate

It seems like BMW lease is making a lot of money from you in a lease, here is what the public thinks in cars.com for a "good" conditioned 2008 M3.

Sedans $40K-$45K
Coupes $44K-$56K

Yes, the Coupe costs more initially, but not that much more to make the difference in resale prices.

Originally Posted by Dave 330i

It seems like BMW lease is making a lot of money from you in a lease, here is what the public thinks in cars.com for a "good" conditioned 2008 M3. The sedan is so "popular" that BMW has decided it will not have a F30 M3.

Sedans $40K-$45K
Coupes $44K-$56K

Yes, the Coupe costs more initially, but not that much more to make the difference in resale prices.

So BMW makes much more money on the coupe leases. Interesting.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Bimmer

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

Well the current version is almost $80k ... Its be more than a little surprised if the next version isn't more ...

True, however, I should have mentioned that I am in Canadan and pricing here ihas been screwed up since foregn exchange rates have come close to par.
In 2010, and S6 was $100,000 CAD. I'm expecting Audi to correct this for 2013. Here, base price for an M3 is about $73,000.
I am expecting the S6 to be about $85,000. If this is the case, I'm okay with it, but if they try and stick a $100,000 price tag on it, I'll skip it.

I took out the incorrect statement "there will be no F30 M3 sedan" (there will be a sedan). Apparently, Kurt_OH got a hold of it before I was able to correct my mistake.

Originally Posted by Dave 330i

I took out the incorrect statement "there will be no F30 M3 sedan" (there will be a sedan). Apparently, Kurt_OH got a hold of it before I was able to correct my mistake.

LOL

Didn't mean to memorialize your (unnoticed by me) mistake. Besides, until they make one, it's not proven to be an error.

Btw, do you have any numbers on the production of M3 by year and body style?

I'd like to know how many of each are produced.

Thanks!

Kurt

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

LOL

Didn't mean to memorialize your (unnoticed by me) mistake. Besides, until they make one, it's not proven to be an error.

Btw, do you have any numbers on the production of M3 by year and body style?

I'd like to know how many of each are produced.

Thanks!

Kurt

I'm sure that information is available if one does a search.

Originally Posted by Dave 330i

I'm sure that information is available if one does a search.

I wasn't able to find it, and figured you had it handy seeing as you were so sure the sedan was gone due to poor sales ...

If you don't, what WERE you basing it on?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Bimmer

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

I wasn't able to find it, and figured you had it handy seeing as you were so sure the sedan was gone due to poor sales ...

If you don't, what WERE you basing it on?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Bimmer

Didn't I correct that mistake? There will be F30 M3 sedan. What are you trying to do? Convince yourself that the sedan is popular? Only you can make that decision, so buzz off. If it bothers you so much, go find the answer yourself.

Originally Posted by Dave 330i

What are you trying to do? Convince yourself that the sedan is popular?

Around here in central Ohio, I rarely see an E9x M3, so it seems to me NONE of them are "popular". I see more 911s and Jags, for example.

I'm trying to discuss with you, the information YOU used to draw the conclusion that you posted. YES, you retracted your comment that the next M3 won't have a sedan version. But you DID post it, and when you did, you clearly intended to communicate that the sedan was not a good selling version.

I'm simply asking you, upon what information did you claim it wasn't a good selling version, and I'm further requesting that you share your source of information. As I stated - I'd like to know the sales of each version, and clearly you have some information on that topic, or you wouldn't have posted that it wasn't selling - or at least I hoped you wouldn't.

So, which is it? Did you make it up, or do you have a source that shows how many of each version E9x M3 have been sold? Also, what's with all the aggression? Can't you just share the info?

Of course, you DID also CLAIM the sedan depreciates way more, without providing any info (used prices don't help, without the corresponding new prices), AND claim the C&D results were "fixed". Where DO you get this stuff?