BMW Navigation .... sucks?

Originally Posted by BobRBob

Yogi, regarding address entry, have you tried voice entry? It works like a charm every time. Easiest address entry of any system I've used.
I've noticed as well that the system frequently goes off the rails just as you are approaching the end of a trip. With the destination literally in sight, the system will instruct you to make a left turn instead of a right...

As for the dreaded "If possible, make a legal U turn...", who the hell knows.

OK, good to know. I did not have a chance to try it thanks to Google maps Send to Car thingy.

But in all honesty, I have yet to be mislead anywhere in the GTA (that's Toronto area for our bros down south) and I sometimes travel to 4-5 unknown locations in the West end in a day. My worst observation is not knowing the difference between collectors and express on 401 and constantly telling me to veer right instead of just shutting up and letting me drive straight LOL. And sometimes taking me through the city rather than doing 5km more but directing me to a highway.

Originally Posted by chuck92116

I usually send addresses from google maps, or my contacts and it works like a charm.

+1 Not as user friendly as the Japanese cars I've owned but gets me where I wanna go.

I only got the nav because BMW was giving it away for free with the Nav Credit promo. I've used it a couple of times just to test it with my google maps on the phone, and it's been pretty much the same. Sometimes the exit or the local roads it tells me is different, but the time that it calculates and the total miles have always been pretty much identical between the two systems. The Send to Car option from the desktop is totally awesome though! And yes, the voice entry of the address works remarkably well also.

I think the Nav works fine if you know how to use it.

With so many people routed to the wrong places and not mentioning that they took the car to the dealer and reproduced the issue is suspicious. If you have this issue, would you not want it resolved?

I don't think BMW will ever have a Nav system that does not yield complaints as forums tend to attract a crowd of spoiled whiners and complainers. I suspect if you ask their wives, they would agree.

I was reviewing the 5 series threads and all the various comments made me laugh.

1. Whining about suspension
2. Whining about steering
3. Whining about seats
4. Whining about iPhone cradles
5. Whining about BMW Apps
6. Whining about tires/wheels (even though there are warning plastered everywhere that these are not designed for bad roads, yet people are inisistent on having a BMW where it does not belong. But go ahead, whine about that too.
7. Whining about the nav

See the pattern, the issue to me is not BMW. Some people are just never happy. I am not sure why they continue to buy products they don't like. Perhaps a chemical imbalance.

Originally Posted by sdbrandon

I think the Nav works fine if you know how to use it.

With so many people routed to the wrong places and not mentioning that they took the car to the dealer and reproduced the issue is suspicious. If you have this issue, would you not want it resolved?

I don't think BMW will ever have a Nav system that does not yield complaints as forums tend to attract a crowd of spoiled whiners and complainers. I suspect if you ask their wives, they would agree.

I was reviewing the 5 series threads and all the various comments made me laugh.

1. Whining about suspension
2. Whining about steering
3. Whining about seats
4. Whining about iPhone cradles
5. Whining about BMW Apps
6. Whining about tires/wheels (even though there are warning plastered everywhere that these are not designed for bad roads, yet people are inisistent on having a BMW where it does not belong. But go ahead, whine about that too.
7. Whining about the nav

+10

Originally Posted by sdbrandon

See the pattern, the issue to me is not BMW. Some people are just never happy. I am not sure why they continue to buy products they don't like. Perhaps a chemical imbalance.

It's the internet, what did you expect?

I have one more complaint.

BMW needs to add the Bimmberfest App to Connected Drive so we can complain wile driving.

Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Originally Posted by sdbrandon

6. Whining about tires/wheels (even though there are warning plastered everywhere that these are not designed for bad roads, yet people are inisistent on having a BMW where it does not belong. But go ahead, whine about that too.
7. Whining about the nav

So I guess it's too much to as that a $55k+ vehicle have a nav that at least equals what you can readily find in a $100 stand-alone Garmin and wheels/tires that don't bubble on any normal USA urban area roadway.

You're a real genius, aren't you?

I've found quirks in all nav systems, not just BMW's, but the new database combined with the new nav software has consistently had trouble with common sense routing.

I've not made simultaneous side-by-side comparisons but given that I have the opportunity to drive a new and different car every week in addition to the BMW and MB, I have more of an opportunity to observe these things than most.

For example, from Bayside New York to Midtown Manhattan, the BMW wants the route to be via the Throgs Neck Bridge, across the Cross Bronx Expressway, and then down the FDR.

Not only would no one ever think of taking that (longer and more time-consuming) route but no other car (including CCC-based BMW nav systems with the older db) has proposed it as well.

In discussing this with BMW, the manager I spoke with suggested that it might be a combination of the db and the hardware. I haven't had time to really push this as I simply ignore silly routing when I am aware of it but it is there.

On the other hand, I've seen equally silly routings on other cars so it just may be a question of the technology still being far from perfect at this point in time.

How do you transfer from Computer Google Map to in car Navigation? From a non-geek.
Gail

Originally Posted by ggoodloe

How do you transfer from Computer Google Map to in car Navigation? From a non-geek.
Gail

Use the Send to Car function on the web site (right mouse click etc.).

Originally Posted by ggoodloe

How do you transfer from Computer Google Map to in car Navigation? From a non-geek.
Gail

On the computer, after you find directions, click on the button that shows a link (next to the printer icon). then click on send. then select to car. then in the car, you need to go to connected drive, messages, and it should be in there.

one time it happened that the message wasn't pushed to the car by the time i got to it, and i couldn't figure out how to force a synch with the service. but the other times, the message was always there when i turned on the car.

Originally Posted by awesomeo3000

On the computer, after you find directions,

Actually, that's not quite right: there is no reason why you would be getting directions on Google since the system clearly isn't sending directions. Simply enter the address on Google Maps (not directions) and proceed from there.

Going back to the thread's original topic, I just drove a Lexus HS250h (I am spending a week with this car) and I was on the Upper West Side, close to the GW Bridge.

Because of traffic, I couldn't turn so the navi "suggested" I cross the GWB into NJ and come back.

I declined to follow this advice - but it was pretty funny to look at the map and see the routing.

I have found there to be only 2 issues with the navigation in my region:
1) It has some wrong addresses in the POI.
2) It has incorrect speed assumptions for main roads and side roads, versus highway, and consequently uses highway and side roads too much relative to main roads.

I solve option 1 by calling BMW assist every time I need to enter a POI into my navigation and have them send an address to the nav. This works beautifully and is much better than fumbling trying to look for a POI or enter an address into iDrive. In fact with BMW Assist support I love using the nav.

I haven't solved issue 2. Is there anyway to program your speed by type of road on the BMW navigation?

Originally Posted by JSpira

Actually, that's not quite right: there is no reason why you would be getting directions on Google since the system clearly isn't sending directions. Simply enter the address on Google Maps (not directions) and proceed from there.

That is true. You are basically sending the address only to your car, not the entire directions. So this just makes the entry of your destination easier, but does not solve any issues with the actual directions bmw may come up with.

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot

I solve option 1 by calling BMW assist every time I need to enter a POI into my navigation and have them send an address to the nav. This works beautifully and is much better than fumbling trying to look for a POI or enter an address into iDrive. In fact with BMW Assist support I love using the nav.

This works well except when you really need to get in the car and know which direction you are heading in without waiting to speak with BMW Assist and have the address "looked up" and then downloaded. In such cases, I find it much faster to use Send to Car.

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot

I haven't solved issue 2. Is there anyway to program your speed by type of road on the BMW navigation?

No, but keep in mind the system is typically using actual traffic reports and Inrix predictive data in addition to posted speeds and road type when calculating arrival time.

I would bet that the problem is the Tele Atlas database, which replaced the excellent Navteq database when the CCC was replaced with the CIC. Which I find ironic as the cost of CIC map updates went up almost 100%. When my own personal experience tells me that BMW switched over to Tele Atlas just because it was a cheaper supplier.

I can see how cheaper it is compared with my 4-year old RNS-510 Nav OEM system in my VW CC that uses Navteq maps. Navteq include even tollbooths and controlled access communities in their data, something tha it is completely missing from my 2012 M3 iDrive.

Originally Posted by JSpira

I've found quirks in all nav systems, not just BMW's, but the new database combined with the new nav software has consistently had trouble with common sense routing.

I've not made simultaneous side-by-side comparisons but given that I have the opportunity to drive a new and different car every week in addition to the BMW and MB, I have more of an opportunity to observe these things than most.

For example, from Bayside New York to Midtown Manhattan, the BMW wants the route to be via the Throgs Neck Bridge, across the Cross Bronx Expressway, and then down the FDR.

Not only would no one ever think of taking that (longer and more time-consuming) route but no other car (including CCC-based BMW nav systems with the older db) has proposed it as well.

In discussing this with BMW, the manager I spoke with suggested that it might be a combination of the db and the hardware. I haven't had time to really push this as I simply ignore silly routing when I am aware of it but it is there.

On the other hand, I've seen equally silly routings on other cars so it just may be a question of the technology still being far from perfect at this point in time.

Originally Posted by Technic

I would bet that the problem is the Tele Atlas database, which replaced the excellent Navteq database when the CCC was replaced with the CIC. Which I find ironic as the cost of CIC map updates went up almost 100%. When my own personal experience tells me that BMW switched over to Tele Atlas just because it was a cheaper supplier.

I can see how cheaper it is compared with my 4-year old RNS-510 Nav OEM system in my VW CC that uses Navteq maps. Navteq include even tollbooths and controlled access communities in their data, something tha it is completely missing from my 2012 M3 iDrive.

BMW still uses Navteq in Europe, I believe, at least that was the case last time I looked.

Interestingly enough, when I looked on Lexus' Web site I found this: "Lexus sources its map information from more than one supplier", which I take to mean that data from multiple suppliers (presumably Navteq and Tele Atlas) is combined by Lexus.

Originally Posted by JSpira

BMW still uses Navteq in Europe, I believe, at least that was the case last time I looked.

Interestingly enough, when I looked on Lexus' Web site I found this: "Lexus sources its map information from more than one supplier", which I take to mean that data from multiple suppliers (presumably Navteq and Tele Atlas) is combined by Lexus.

In 2.5 years of Lexus ownership, not once did I have a navigation error. Their maps are very good, but not pretty.

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot

In 2.5 years of Lexus ownership, not once did I have a navigation error. Their maps are very good, but not pretty.

Well, I've had the Lexus for 3 days (4 days left) and it made a serious error - did you read post 38 in this thread?

Originally Posted by JSpira

Well, I've had the Lexus for 3 days (4 days left) and it made a serious error - did you read post 38 in this thread?

Maybe you didn't set it up right. I can generate odd routes with any navigation system by changing settings (e.g. Ability to use roads with restricted lanes, ability to use toll roads, ability to use highways, speed assumptions for different types of roads.

With my Lexus which didn't have the traffic feature, it was easy to set up the assumptions to get logical routing.

I suspect the same is true of the BMW, but where it is failing in my BMW is that I can't change the speed assumptions, which is why it directs me to take the long and slow route home because it thinks more distance if highway is faster (which is not the case given that I speed on major roads).

If you are dependent on traffic data for speed assumptions, then it likely will route incorrectly for none who drives faster than traffic.

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot

Maybe you didn't set it up right. I can generate odd routes with any navigation system by changing settings (e.g. Ability to use roads with restricted lanes, ability to use toll roads, ability to use highways, speed assumptions for different types of roads.

I did think of that afterwards and rechecked and all the settings were "normal". Just to explain, I was roughly 5 blocks from the destination in Manhattan so the routing via NJ would have been several miles in each direction. I don't think I could have figured out a way of changing the settings to get that route had I for some reason actually wanted it to be that way. Thanks for mentioning the settings, though.

There are just a few nav companies and algorithms. Not one of systems is perfect. I can find flaws in them all.

Having said that, without question the BMW map interface quality looks very elegant compared to others I have seen in luxury cars which look like they belong in a Kia.

Originally Posted by sdbrandon

6. Whining about tires/wheels (even though there are warning plastered everywhere that these are not designed for bad roads, yet people are inisistent on having a BMW where it does not belong. But go ahead, whine about that too.
7. Whining about the nav

Where are such warnings plastered? Are they on the BMW web site? Are dealers instructed to tell customers that "bad" roads exist in their respective area and that they might want to consider another car brand? Where exactly does a BMW "belong"? Reading through the RFT failures thread reveals more than just people whining to hear themselves whine.

I'm also quite proficient with using navigation systems. I've had one in cars I've owned since 2004. That was with the horrible MB COMAND system. Even then, it consistently provided better routing over what I get with the F10.

Originally Posted by JSpira

Going back to the thread's original topic, I just drove a Lexus HS250h (I am spending a week with this car) and I was on the Upper West Side, close to the GW Bridge.

Because of traffic, I couldn't turn so the navi "suggested" I cross the GWB into NJ and come back.

I declined to follow this advice - but it was pretty funny to look at the map and see the routing.

I've had a similar experience where the Nav system routed an inexplicable detour when my destination was straight ahead on the same highway I started from. I've learned to zoom out (adjusting the view scale with the iDrive knob) to get a sense of the entire route before starting, and find that this often gives a valuable, common sense perspective.