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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #76  
Old 12-01-2012, 07:47 PM
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In my 2007 E60, 85,000 miles, which my wife now drives, and my 2012 F10 with about 5,000 miles, I've been quite happy with my navs. Oh sure, there have been occasional errors, but very few. I can certainly live without all the street names being called out. I have noticed that the 2012 version calls out many more street names than the 2007. There are two features of the BMW navs that I do not care for, and I can't recall being mentioned in this or other threads: (1)when arriving at the destination, the nav does not tell which side of the street the destination is on, and (2)there's no easy way to confirm the inputted address when reaching the destination.
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  #77  
Old 12-01-2012, 07:57 PM
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Hi needsdecaf,

Not that I have seen all the navs offered but none work as well as a dedicated Garmin unit. I have a $1000 Garmin that is not perfect but granted it does better than the BMW. After years with them I do not expect perfection with any of them, as much as i wish it could be true.
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  #78  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:48 PM
jhatmchsi jhatmchsi is offline
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No one would expect to buy a BMW with an engine or transmission that worked really well 99% of the time. Why should my expectations be any different from their nab system? All I ask is that they stand behind it, providing free updates until it does perform at an acceptable level. I agree that nab systems are not their forte. Maybe I am waiting for them to swallow their German pride and partner with Garmin to provide their customers with a system that performs as well as their mechanical systems do.
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  #79  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:59 PM
wildvlad wildvlad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhatmchsi View Post
No one would expect to buy a BMW with an engine or transmission that worked really well 99% of the time. Why should my expectations be any different from their nab system? All I ask is that they stand behind it, providing free updates until it does perform at an acceptable level. I agree that nab systems are not their forte. Maybe I am waiting for them to swallow their German pride and partner with Garmin to provide their customers with a system that performs as well as their mechanical systems do.
I have not seen any single nav which gives 100% accuracy.

The best probably is Google maps, though it still suck when it comes to traffic conditions - quite often they don't know what traffic on US101 freeway looks like (and they can literally see that freeway from their campus).
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  #80  
Old 12-02-2012, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhatmchsi View Post
No one would expect to buy a BMW with an engine or transmission that worked really well 99% of the time. Why should my expectations be any different from their nab system? All I ask is that they stand behind it, providing free updates until it does perform at an acceptable level. I agree that nab systems are not their forte. Maybe I am waiting for them to swallow their German pride and partner with Garmin to provide their customers with a system that performs as well as their mechanical systems do.
+1

Garmin is a player in the aviation market, maybe the OEM auto realm is not considered profitable and with the penetration of portables, why bother.

Garmin and BMW motorcycles as well as Harley and Honda did co-brand some GPS products which were/are pretty pricy and work pretty well. When Garmin started adding in sat. Radio, MP3 player and weather radar the programming got funky at times but mostly they got it ironed out. Being a beta tester has its drawbacks.
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  #81  
Old 12-03-2012, 03:12 PM
lsleelee lsleelee is offline
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I can't speak to the F10 but I never had any of these problems on the E60.

With such widely varying opinions in this thread, one is tempted to suspect user error.
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  #82  
Old 12-03-2012, 06:41 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsleelee View Post
I can't speak to the F10 but I never had any of these problems on the E60.

With such widely varying opinions in this thread, one is tempted to suspect user error.
Wrong.

With the switch to the F10 Nav, BMW switched mapping suppliers to TeleAtlas. This is the same mapping supplier that is having issues with Apple Maps. The issues that Apple Maps users are experiencing are VERY similar to those faced here. Coincidence? I think not.

The issues are real and you can't blame user error when you are at point a, point b is selected, and the car takes you through China to get there.
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  #83  
Old 12-03-2012, 07:25 PM
mrcamp mrcamp is offline
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Here in Chicago, the NAV has worked quite well for me. No issues at all. It's just about as good as the NAV in my Honda odyssey (same one in the Acura).
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  #84  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mrcamp View Post
Here in Chicago, the NAV has worked quite well for me. No issues at all. It's just about as good as the NAV in my Honda odyssey (same one in the Acura).
I have both an E60 and an Odyssey and I find the E60 nav to be far superior to the Odyssey nav. I'm in Utah. Maybe location matters.

-Corey
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  #85  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:09 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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What Everyone needs to realize is that the underlying data with all navigation systems (GIS) Is constantly being updated. It's not only to update points of interest, but to actually update location of centerline and points on maps vs lat/Lon. This data has different formats and as gets converted to the different applications.

Now when you take into account that there are hundreds of millions of points and centerlines that go into any navigation system, multiply that by the number of different suppliers that provide that combine to collect the data and you can easily see why errors with pop up. Few companies have the resources of a Google and can afford to drive the country for proper location information. Most of the data is a collection from different sources, these various sources can also introduce errors. I am not making excuses for the companies, just pointing out that there is a quite a bit of data that goes into making our NAVs fairly accurate. Of course if you live in an area where streets and addresses are changing more often than the data becomes even more important and dates quickly.
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  #86  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:20 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordoor View Post
I have both an E60 and an Odyssey and I find the E60 nav to be far superior to the Odyssey nav. I'm in Utah. Maybe location matters.

-Corey
You're using an E60. The system is different.
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #87  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:37 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
What Everyone needs to realize is that the underlying data with all navigation systems (GIS) Is constantly being updated. It's not only to update points of interest, but to actually update location of centerline and points on maps vs lat/Lon. This data has different formats and as gets converted to the different applications.

Now when you take into account that there are hundreds of millions of points and centerlines that go into any navigation system, multiply that by the number of different suppliers that provide that combine to collect the data and you can easily see why errors with pop up. Few companies have the resources of a Google and can afford to drive the country for proper location information. Most of the data is a collection from different sources, these various sources can also introduce errors. I am not making excuses for the companies, just pointing out that there is a quite a bit of data that goes into making our NAVs fairly accurate. Of course if you live in an area where streets and addresses are changing more often than the data becomes even more important and dates quickly.
I have no issue with a lack of POI's, or getting an address wrong. That's understandable.

What I have an issue with is a fundamental inability to route properly. I've been using Nav since 1999 and had it in my cars since 2002. Never have I seen a system as poor to route or re-route as this one. And I've had it in areas from NY solid down to VA and now TX, and the issues are the same. This thing still can't recognize roads that are better than others. Case in point:

Here's a goofy one that I didn't catch on the Nav, but replicated on Google maps. It's not terrible, but how does this (Nav routing):



Make more sense than this (how I went):



More magic not captured on film:

Requested routing: Get off going south, make a u turn and go North (actual routing)



Instead of just taking the Northbound exit?!?!?!



Or how about this. Forget about taking the direct highway route:



No, here is what the Nav suggests. This:



or this:



These are routes suggested by the nav. Seriously.

A good one from DC:



One of my favorites. An illegal u-turn on a DIVIDED road, when you can go past and take the exit route to go Northwest on Seminary directly.



I've saved the best for last. This was in the middle of a 280 mile trip. It actually suggested that instead of proceeding through on this major highway, somehow it was better that I get off, make a few turns, and get back on. Seriously.



Dynamic guidance is turned off. No special instructions were used. These were actual routing methods by this POS nav.
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians

Last edited by Needsdecaf; 12-03-2012 at 08:40 PM.
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  #88  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:50 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Caf - your crazy... It makeserfect sense... Lmao

Obviously there is some issue with the weighting of certain roads, never quite seen it this bad... I guess you are just lucky.

Luckily the 2013 has a new system... Fingers crossed.
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  #89  
Old 12-03-2012, 09:21 PM
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alewifebp alewifebp is offline
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This comes up every month or so, and the responses are the same. I've seen some crazy routing as well. It was especially bad going through the DC area, but it's bad in NJ too. It has some strange logic. I'm actually impressed when it chooses an efficient route. I've had nav equipped cars since 2004, and even compared to the poor MB COMAND system, this one is the worst.

Mine also contradicts itself. The voice will say one thing, but the screen shows another. And if you have HUD, you need to cancel the guidance before you arrive at your destination, or it will keep showing the directional arrows until the car is shut off.
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  #90  
Old 12-03-2012, 10:41 PM
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cordoor cordoor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
You're using an E60. The system is different.
I was making the ASSumption the nav couldn't have gotten worse.

I will have F10 in hand around Feb so will compare then I suppose. I hope the 2013 isn't as bad as your examples suggest the 2012 is.

-Corey
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  #91  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:12 AM
gicamuci gicamuci is offline
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I have another interesting observation to make and I'll try and explain it the best I can. I don't know if it makes any difference, but the destination I sent it to the car, from Google Maps.
On the iDrive screen the route to my destination was displayed as I know it should be (the right way) showing the white line continuously on the freeway, clearly showing somewhere ahead, the exit I had to take, past other oncoming two exits. Only the little display at the bottom of the cluster kept telling me to take an exit that was two exits before the right one. How can this be explained ?
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Last edited by gicamuci; 12-04-2012 at 07:14 AM.
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  #92  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:21 AM
kc1953 kc1953 is offline
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My main issue with the nav system is that the voice prompt to turn comes a little late...like right when you should be making the turn. It gives you about a 1/8th of a mile heads up that a turn is approaching, but then it doesn't let you know that the next street is where you turn until you are basically right at the street. Normally not a problem but can be a pain if you are in an unfamiliar area, it is night, and streets are not well lit.
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  #93  
Old 12-04-2012, 12:43 PM
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MSgtMel MSgtMel is offline
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Needs, Thanks for the fantastic examples, though the second one is easy to explain. It is a definite data base base problem. Your two-way ramp to the North bound road is only recognized as one-way - note the arrow on the print out showing traffic direction. There are many of these types of error behind a number of the problems I've experienced. Hey, you pay cheap prices for data and you get crummy data. Now if BMW would just buy a decent map source a goodly number of our problems would go away. But then there's the logic(?) algorithm for using the data to generate a route, etc.
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  #94  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:47 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by MSgtMel View Post
Needs, Thanks for the fantastic examples, though the second one is easy to explain. It is a definite data base base problem. Your two-way ramp to the North bound road is only recognized as one-way - note the arrow on the print out showing traffic direction. There are many of these types of error behind a number of the problems I've experienced. Hey, you pay cheap prices for data and you get crummy data. Now if BMW would just buy a decent map source a goodly number of our problems would go away. But then there's the logic(?) algorithm for using the data to generate a route, etc.
There is no such thing as a "good map source" its all relative. BTW - the best map sources is local government who is constantly updating their towns, roads, addresses, etc. Oh and that data is free, so its not always "you get what you pay for" when it cone to mapping.
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  #95  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:20 PM
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MSgtMel MSgtMel is offline
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Correct it is all relative, correct the best is the local -county surveyor, correct at least in OH free to individual for non commercial purposes. But commercial services have to pay a fee even/especially when they get the data from the federal repository in St. Louis. Which btw is where a copy of all local data goes and is integrated into a uniform standardized structure.
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  #96  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:56 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
There is no such thing as a "good map source" its all relative. BTW - the best map sources is local government who is constantly updating their towns, roads, addresses, etc. Oh and that data is free, so its not always "you get what you pay for" when it cone to mapping.
My 2007 MDX with maps from 2006 was hands down better than my 2011 535 with maps that were 4 years newer.
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #97  
Old 12-05-2012, 12:44 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSgtMel View Post
Correct it is all relative, correct the best is the local -county surveyor, correct at least in OH free to individual for non commercial purposes. But commercial services have to pay a fee even/especially when they get the data from the federal repository in St. Louis. Which btw is where a copy of all local data goes and is integrated into a uniform standardized structure.
Actually that is not accurate. For example in the area I am in - they would provide this data for free to commercial entities. It is also not handled by county surveyors, it is handle by GIS professionals that this is all they do.

This data is becoming more and more important than just navigation systems. It is used for first responder dispatch, emergency alerts and even routing of 911 calls.

Now all that said - great data that gets deployed with crap algorithms will always fail.
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  #98  
Old 12-06-2012, 12:42 AM
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emdreiSMG emdreiSMG is offline
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I just got out of an '09 E63 and into a '11 535i.
Nav in the MBZ was near perfect and pretty easy to use.

I've only had the F10 about a month, but an anecdote that underscores how clueless the BMW nav can be...

Travelling N on I-405 here in OC, one can exit onto a toll road (73), which rejoins 405 10miles North. Using the 73, one might cut off circa 3 mins of drive time through Irvine, or more-which may be desirable depending on day/time of travel. Nav told me to use the 73N, but I continued on the 405N and Nav was unrelenting, insisting that I take every exit that one could use to rejoin the 73 as I proceeded North ...including the Jamboree exit which is approx 2 miles from where the 73 rejoins 405N.
Goofy
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  #99  
Old 12-06-2012, 11:25 AM
fmalloy fmalloy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emdreiSMG View Post
I just got out of an '09 E63 and into a '11 535i.
Nav told me to use the 73N, but I continued on the 405N and Nav was unrelenting, insisting that I take every exit that one could use to rejoin the 73 as I proceeded North ...including the Jamboree exit which is approx 2 miles from where the 73 rejoins 405N.
Goofy
This is what I saw on the very first day I received my 2013 535i - refuses to do a recalculation and just kept pushing me to go where it wanted me to go. For me, BTW, it was on the 5 around Santa Ana.

The most annoying thing though is the constant "Bear Right" and "Bear Left" instructions - all while I am just cruising straight on the 5.

It doesn't announce street names either. This nav is a DOG.

Just downloaded Waze on my phone and it works great. Perfect instructions, telling you to turn at the right times, recalculates based on where YOU want to go, and announces all the street names.

So, a FREE iPhone app beats a nav system in a $60K BMW.

Not a great first impression of my first BMW.
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  #100  
Old 12-06-2012, 11:34 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by fmalloy View Post
This is what I saw on the very first day I received my 2013 535i - refuses to do a recalculation and just kept pushing me to go where it wanted me to go. For me, BTW, it was on the 5 around Santa Ana.

The most annoying thing though is the constant "Bear Right" and "Bear Left" instructions - all while I am just cruising straight on the 5.

It doesn't announce street names either. This nav is a DOG.

Just downloaded Waze on my phone and it works great. Perfect instructions, telling you to turn at the right times, recalculates based on where YOU want to go, and announces all the street names.

So, a FREE iPhone app beats a nav system in a $60K BMW.

Not a great first impression of my first BMW.
Well I don't know about the iphone maps, they are pretty questionable.
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