BMW ActiveHybrid 5 v. BMW 535d

It's pretty safe to say that we'll see the ActiveHybrid 5 (below is a photo I took at the Tokyo Motor Show) in the U.S. in 2012.

I'm not so confident about a 535d.

The AH5 won't reach the 535d's fuel economy (nor the new MB E-Class diesel-hybrid's for that matter) but, unlike the AH7 and AHX6, it won't come with a $25,000+ price premium and fuel economy should be respectable.

On the MB side in the U.S., there is of course the E400 Hybrid (gasoline, not diesel0 and the E350 BlueTec diesel. I don't think very many people are buying the hybrid but the diesel is selling quite well.

What does everyone else here think on the 5er's prospects?

(For more info on the ActiveHybrid 5, see this "first look" by Christian Stampfer)

How has the 335d done? As much as I'd want a chance of having a 535d over here, it just does not yet seem that the N American market supports a high end diesel sedan. I'm glad MB has stayed commited to diesel. That would seem to be the best bet to coaxing BMW to offer the 'd 5er over here, but I'm not holding my breath.
Maybe if gas goes to $5/gal?.

Originally Posted by d geek

How has the 335d done?

It's done moderately well. BMW has kept incentives ($3500-$4500) on it since late '09, and they have sold as many 335d sedans as 335i sedans - respectable. The diesel X5 has sold very well without as high incentives.

The 335d doesn't really get great mileage - tuned for power as it is it can't compete with the Jetta/Passat. Doesn't even do as well as the MB E320 D.

My wife and I would be first in line for an X1 2.3d xDrive or similar. I've recently noticed that Mazda will probably have a CX-5 2.2d available in 2013 - will have to look hard at that.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

...The 335d doesn't really get great mileage - tuned for power as it is it can't compete with the Jetta/Passat. ..

I've seen several 335d owners post getting around 40 mpg hwy. That is certainly good fuel economy when you consider the performance capabilities.

The incentives that BMW has had to offer for the 335d speak to the fact that the market doesn't support the price asked for a top of the line diesel sedan. If they bring over the 320d and price it appropriately, I think they'd do pretty well against the VW offerings.

Originally Posted by d geek

How has the 335d done? As much as I'd want a chance of having a 535d over here, it just does not yet seem that the N American market supports a high end diesel sedan. I'm glad MB has stayed commited to diesel. That would seem to be the best bet to coaxing BMW to offer the 'd 5er over here, but I'm not holding my breath.
Maybe if gas goes to $5/gal?.

If you look at diesel versus comparable model sales for the first half of 2011 (see Diesel Economics: Sales Up 39% for First Half of 2011), you'll see encouraging data.

For example, the 335d had 47% of E90 335x (where x is NOT xDrive of course but either "d" or "i") buyers.

For the second half (which is not over for a few more days, there were several months where the 335d had more than 50% of 335x buyers.

It will be very interesting to see the data for the S-Klasse diesel v. comparable petrol model for Q3/Q4. I have no doubt it's outselling the Hybrid S but I haven't seen final figures yet.

Originally Posted by d geek

I've seen several 335d owners post getting around 40 mpg hwy. That is certainly good fuel economy when you consider the performance capabilities.

I have gotten 40 mpg on highway trips several times - but the E-Klasse BTEC consistently delivered fuel economy in this range while it was somewhat of an exception for the 3er.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

It's done moderately well. BMW has kept incentives ($3500-$4500) on it since late '09, and they have sold as many 335d sedans as 335i sedans - respectable. The diesel X5 has sold very well without as high incentives.
.

The Eco Credit was applicable to both the X5d and the 335d.

Originally Posted by JSpira

The Eco Credit was applicable to both the X5d and the 335d.

Even recently for the X5? Didn't know that.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Even recently for the X5? Didn't know that.

Not sure about past month or so but I do recall seeing the Eco Credit still on the X5 in October of this year.

In an age of Information Overload, I haven't really kept my eye on that but this data point would still show that the Eco Credits were equal for both vehicles from the point at which the Eco Credit started (somewhat after the 335d was launched) until EOP.

Eco credit expired for 335d last January 1st. BMW stiil offers the $3500 off as a discount not a credit on the remaining 335d's on the lot.

Originally Posted by 4pipes

Eco credit expired for 335d last January 1st. BMW stiil. Offered the $3500 off as a discount not a credit.

Thanks for the update.

In Europe, the 535d gets better fuel mileage than the ActiveHybrid 5 (5.4 liters/100 km vs 6.4 liters/100 km - combined NEDC test cycle), lower CO2 emissions (142 g/km vs 149 g/km), better performance (0-100 km/hr in 5.5 sec for the 535d; 5.9 sec for the ActiveHybrid 5), AND it's less expensive (in Europe anyway)...


£46,860 - AH5
£44,290 - 535d
£2570 less for 535d

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/pricesand...%3D%3D,00.html


EPA estimated U.S. fuel mileage based on Euro-spec 535d vs. Euro-spec 335d applied to US-spec 335d EPA mileage – 40.175(City)/55.4289(Highway)/45.6(combined) (unadjusted) = 30.63(5-cycle City)/38.96(5-cycle Highway)/33.9(5-cycle Combined) (from EPA 5-cycle adjustment formula from ACEEE Methodology) – 31/39/34 @ 55%/45% [27/37/32 ActiveHybrid 5 (est. based on 535i data)].

I'm perplexed as to why BMW thinks its hybrid sales have been successful enough to justify the ActiveHybrid 5 (in spite of the fact that the ActiveHybrid 7 has accounted for less than 3% of the 7-Series sales YTD), but the 335d sales haven't been successful enough to justify the 535d in North America.

I suppose if BMW is aiming for the high-end Hybrid market, then the AH5 might make sense.

The 535d will require SCR to meet EURO 6 emissions, which at that point will make it relatively cheap to re-certify for EPA T2B5.

BMW was fairly astute in using the N.A. 335d's and X5d's as test mules for SCR technology. I think a lot of folks don't really appreciate what BMW was doing with those vehicles... first and foremost, they were obvious loss leaders intended to refine the SCR system, prior to widespread implementation in the Euro fleets.

That said, I'd love to see a big diesel sedan come over here from BMW. I hope the rumours I heard about a fall 2013 intro for the one-year old SCR-equipped 535d are true. If not, I will have a hard think about whether I keep my 335d at end-lease, or move on to the E350BT. The 335d has been great, but as the kids have gotten older and my wife and I travel more, the 3 can be a bit small, wonderful performance notwithstanding.


Regards,
D.

Originally Posted by DnA Diesel

I suppose if BMW is aiming for the high-end Hybrid market, then the AH5 might make sense.

The 535d will require SCR to meet EURO 6 emissions, which at that point will make it relatively cheap to re-certify for EPA T2B5.

BMW was fairly astute in using the N.A. 335d's and X5d's as test mules for SCR technology. I think a lot of folks don't really appreciate what BMW was doing with those vehicles... first and foremost, they were obvious loss leaders intended to refine the SCR system, prior to widespread implementation in the Euro fleets.

That said, I'd love to see a big diesel sedan come over here from BMW. I hope the rumours I heard about a fall 2013 intro for the one-year old SCR-equipped 535d are true. If not, I will have a hard think about whether I keep my 335d at end-lease, or move on to the E350BT. The 335d has been great, but as the kids have gotten older and my wife and I travel more, the 3 can be a bit small, wonderful performance notwithstanding.


Regards,
D.

While no kids here I do travel a bit and agree with your sentiments. This is exactly why I have the 335d and the 535i. I would probably buy the 535d/550d if it makes its way over and is priced reasonably. If BMW thinks people will pay 70k for a 550d then it will be a total sales flop or have to carry a 10k eco credit to move them. Hopefully BMW has learned its lesson that the the diesel models need to be priced the same as or very close to the gasoline models. My 335d ended up being less than a 335i because the dealers were willing to sell them for invoice due to lack of demand. Not so for the 335i....

Originally Posted by 4pipes

Eco credit expired for 335d last January 1st. BMW stiil offers the $3500 off as a discount not a credit on the remaining 335d's on the lot.

Eco credit is still available. The diesel federal tax credit expired Jan 1st.

I don't see why they'd want to bring the AH5 over. It doesn't get good MPG. The Lexus GS450h and M35h both get 30+ mpg highway. Something this can't match and only the 535d can match.

BMW already messed up the launch of the AH7 and X6AH. Maybe third time is a charm?