Tire problems with 19in RFTs?

Originally Posted by dunderhi

Fix-a-Flat advertises its product as TPMS safe; it even says it on the can.

Then it must be true.

I don't have the CD ROM with the tire warranties handy, but I am 99.9% sure that Dunlop and Goodyear both void the warranty if Fix-a-Flat or its equivalent is used.

RE : quackbury

While you brought up some good information in your post, you really came at us, previous posters to this thread, like a pissed-off professor dealing with a bunch of unruly, dumb kids talking nonsense in his class. We are responsible adults, who paid considerable amounts of money for a car that is facing a potential issue due to the RFTs and lack of a spare. Nobody claimed to be the expert on the topic, intending to post 'really, really bad' information here, but to discuss and discover what is the best option for the situation we are in due to the RFTs that you can't fix if you drive on flat.

The fact that the tires can be fixed by the manufacturer is great, BUT you must have a spare tire to even have that option - we were discussing alternatives, as not everybody wants to fill their trunk with a spare + jack. One option, expensive as you indeed mention is the kit (whether you use the goo or not is another issue - at least you have the pump).

As you mentioned from your experience, I have never had a cracked rim, but then again, the largest rim I previously had was a 17 vs the 19 on the GT. The less cushion there is the higher the risk of bad stuff happening. I am not happy by being seemingly coerced to buy the tire insurance, I would rather keep my money, but it seems like a prudent tradeoff in my case.

Originally Posted by stancv

RE : quackbury

While you brought up some good information in your post, you really came at us, previous posters to this thread, like a pissed-off professor dealing with a bunch of unruly, dumb kids talking nonsense in his class. We are responsible adults, who paid considerable amounts of money for a car that is facing a potential issue due to the RFTs and lack of a spare. Nobody claimed to be the expert on the topic, intending to post 'really, really bad' information here, but to discuss and discover what is the best option for the situation we are in due to the RFTs that you can't fix if you drive on flat.

My bad. I thought the folks posting here were looking for advice from folks who actually had experience with BMW's and RFT's. I didn't realize it was a thread intended for folks with little to no experience to speculate about what life with RFT's would be like - sort of like kids in middle school talking about sex.

Knock yourself out.

/Subscribed

Originally Posted by quackbury

My bad. I thought the folks posting here were looking for advice from folks who actually had experience with BMW's and RFT's. I didn't realize it was a thread intended for folks with little to no experience to speculate about what life with RFT's would be like - sort of like kids in middle school talking about sex.

Knock yourself out.

/Subscribed

Missed my point, but regardless, with the sarcastic, patronizing communication style you are unlikely to get your knowledge accepted by some, me included.

You know, stancv, I thought all we were doing was sharing perspectives, opinions, and experiences in helping you (and all of us) with your original question.
I think our conversation got to the point that there are options that different people choose that are right for them. All have trade-offs.
We may have meandered, but all the points were mentioned - just not presented as THE ANSWER
If there was only one answer we would all have Black Model Ts.

Bottom line...heed the TPMS! If you're lucky, the leak isn't too bad and you have a pump so you can keep it inflated while getting to service. But, consider that there are places you can't legally stop to do this (some tunnels, bridges, causeways, parkways). Then, there are places you'd really rather not have to stop. In those situations, at least with a RFT, you can safely continue at moderate speeds. With a regular tire, you'd be crawling along at maybe 10mph and almost certainly ruin the wheel, where a RFT would preserve it, if it was intact in the first place.

If you can get to a repair place and still have reasonable air pressure, you should be able to patch it if it is in a patchable location. If you drove with it flat, you're pretty much out of luck and will need a new one. WHen I first looked into this, I was able to find a few manufactuers' guidelines, and those I did find, their policy was to recommend against patching a RFT, regardless. Don't remember the thread, but I posted some links to those pdf's.

Originally Posted by wchewbaka

You know, stancv, I thought all we were doing was sharing perspectives, opinions, and experiences in helping you (and all of us) with your original question.
I think our conversation got to the point that there are options that different people choose that are right for them. All have trade-offs.
We may have meandered, but all the points were mentioned - just not presented as THE ANSWER
If there was only one answer we would all have Black Model Ts.

I agree, and the discussion has been most helpful indeed, at least to me, and would like to thank all for the advice provided. The one universal answer, that would suit everybody in all cases, I agree does not exist, as it is a case by case situation depending on your preference for risk.

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

Bottom line...heed the TPMS! If you're lucky, the leak isn't too bad and you have a pump so you can keep it inflated while getting to service. But, consider that there are places you can't legally stop to do this (some tunnels, bridges, causeways, parkways). Then, there are places you'd really rather not have to stop. In those situations, at least with a RFT, you can safely continue at moderate speeds. With a regular tire, you'd be crawling along at maybe 10mph and almost certainly ruin the wheel, where a RFT would preserve it, if it was intact in the first place.

If you can get to a repair place and still have reasonable air pressure, you should be able to patch it if it is in a patchable location. If you drove with it flat, you're pretty much out of luck and will need a new one. WHen I first looked into this, I was able to find a few manufactuers' guidelines, and those I did find, their policy was to recommend against patching a RFT, regardless. Don't remember the thread, but I posted some links to those pdf's.

Great summary.

I've posted in other posts on this forum on my experience with the Goodyear Eagle LS2 RFT tires. Warranty makes more sense when you look at the overall convenience of not having to carry the spare tire, the weight od the spare, and the ability to drive a distance following a road hazard issue. Several points to make:

1. Goodyear respects the warranty fully and covered the last tire 100% during the first year of use with less tha 5K on the tire.
2. BMW Dealers often have no clue about how the warranty works so be ready to educate them about it or you'll end up paying full price for the tire and mounting, etc. Many would rather charge you than bother making the call to Goodyear customer service.
3. If you patch/plug an RFT and then have a subsequent failure of any kind, the manufacturer will then have grounds to deny the claim regardless of how much prorated treadwear, mileage or time is available under the warranty. In short, you'll likely void the warranty.
4. Following maintenance at BMW, always check your tires yourself for proper pressures, etc. Our 2010 GT came back last week with low pressire in all 4 tires following the changing of the brake fluid, with the left front so ow it triggered the TPI warning system. Carefully ispected the tire and it's fine, just was 8 PSI low on pressure! Go figure, since I checked the tires a week before and reset the TPI system with the temperature being about the same. Crappy mechanic! 2011 GT came back this week from oil change with air pressure never checked!

a couple of tire questions,i been thinking of,but dont have answers for.

has anyone here experimented with differant tire pressures,on the 19 inch ls2 ?
bmw recommends 35 front 39 rear.
variations in pressure will affect affect a number of things,but will it affect the probability of sidewall bubbles?
if so what pressure would it be better to run at?

also what about 535 gt with x drive and sport package.
i know their tires are sized differant then f10,and i believe they have staggered sizes .
but i think their fronts are 245 45 19. what make and model tire are o.e. on gt sport with x drive?
does the bubble problem also exist with gt drivers? and if it does is it on the same level or to a lesser degree?

would going from 245 40 19 to 245 45 19, have a minimal , significant, or no differance at all in regard to sidewall bubbles ?
since the 245 45 would require more air then the 245 40,it that a plus ?
does more air volume reduce the chances of bubbles?
if it does can adding a couple of more pounds then recommended pressure reduce the the chances of damage?
or would it have the opposite affect,making it more difficult for the tire to contract and expand on impact?

or is the amount of air volume in a tire a non factor and what is a factor is the increased height of the sidewall.

The taller the tire's sidewall, the more cushion it has and the less stressful with the same impact (and, be less likely to damage a wheel). That's why the tires on the stock 18" wheels seem to be less prone to problems than opting for either the 19, 20 or even larger wheels. To keep the gearing the same and the odometer and speedometer accurate, the overall running diameter of each of the stock tire/wheel combinations is almost exactly the same. The stock 18" tires are 245/50-18. On the 19", it could be either the same F/R at 245/45/19, or that front and 275/40-19 rear. On the 20", it's 245/40-20 F and 275/35-20 R.

Rolling diameter can roughly be calculated by taking the width*aspect ratio/100 *2 + wheel diameter. For example, the 245*50/100*2 (in mm) = 245 = 9.65"+18" or a diameter of 27.65". The 20" 275/35-20 comes out to 275*35/100*2=7.58 +20" or a diameter of 27.58" (close) and the front at 7.71 +20 or 27.71" (closer to the stock 18" in diameter ?).

The tire sidwall height on the stock 18" tire is 245*50/100 or 122.5mm (4.82"). On the 20" 275/35, that drops down to 3.79"., or slightly more than an inch less (28% less).

Running higher pressure might prevent the tire from compressing enough to damage a wheel when you hit a bump, but it also would tend to put more stress on the sidewalls. too soft, and you could bend the sidewall and potentially break some fibers. From the user's manual, the taller the tire, the less pressure you need in it, with (depending on load and speed) the 18" tire calls for 32/35 and the 21" tire 38/44, both for speeds up to 100mph. So, the 21" tire, when you hit a bump, would be putting lots more stress on the sidewall from peak pressure than the 18". If the bump was severe enough to nearly hit the wheel, neither would likely survive, but keep in mind the 18" tire has more sidewall to compress than the larger wheels have.

To me, I prefer the better safety margin on the smaller wheels. If you want the (slight) potential performance increase (and who really uses it on the public roads), or the 'look', then you will end up paying for it both up front, and potentially over the life of the vehicle in damage replacement costs, and just normal replacement costs - the lower profile tires tend to be a lot more expensive than the taller ones in smaller diameter. AutoWeek issue that just came out had their long-term 5-series test results in, and the biggest issue was with the tires/wheels - they spent a lot of money on replacements. If you live where there are freeze/thaw cycles, and spring potholes are a fact of life, bigger wheels, lower-profile tires will be an expensive option! the road maintenance across the country isn't what it used to be, and will probably never approach what is common in Germany where many of the roads were designed as emergency runways - their standard road is much sturdier than ours and less prone to potholes.

I don't think RFT will go away, and as BMW warns in their manual, larger wheels are more prone to damage (and I think that also applies to the tires). I also think that as more and more RFT are made, improvements in ride, durability, and longevity will be available. Bridgestone's third generation RFT tested out by TireRack with about the same comfort and performance levels as the equivalent normal tire, and much better than their second gen RFT. As of now, the sizes are limited, and they don't make one for many of the BMW models, but (hopefully) by the time I need new tires, they or others may have implemented some further enhancements to what is currently available. I also think that when you stretch the technology and go with bigger and bigger wheels, regardless of the type of tire, you're going to see more problems than with the 'stock' sizes.

So far, knock on wood?!, mine are all healthy, and wearing fairly evenly. Time will tell.

The 2011 535i GT with xDrive and sport package did not come with staggered wheel sizes. It came with all-weather tires, Goodyear Eagle LS2 RFT's in 245-45/19. Have not had a bubble problem with these tires although I have had a tread/sidewall puncture covered 100% by warranty. Pressures I run are 35 front and 39 rear; vehicle sticker calls for 35 front and 38 rear.

Spouses vehicle uses the stock 18" Goodyear Eagle LS2 RFT's and she has not had the bubble issue either. I have to confess she has less than 2000 miles on her GT after 14 months of ownership! Not a high mileage driver. She turned in her 2008 328i with 4000 miles on the clock!

A harder tire reduces the fexability when hitting potholes or other impacts. Sidewall rigidity is a big reason for lack of flexibility and the main reason these are RFT capable. Increased air pressure will make them even more rigid, but in doing so will convex the tread, wear it out sooner in the middle, increase tire temperature and increase the potential for blowout from non-RFT issues. One or two pounds is not an issue as many do that for long distance travel. But the manufacturer knows what's beat for the tire in the long run as far as pressures go.

And, from what I know, air pressure doesn't increase the potential for bubbles. Failure of the tire substrate as a result of impact is the culprit at any pressure. Not that high pressure wouldn't add to the woes!

I wanted to give an update regarding the tire/insurance issues discussed in this thread. I ended up declining BMW's tire& wheel insurance, as they were increasing the price on me (from $1150/5yrs to $1350/5yrs) between car order and delivery time. I instead purchased road hazard insurance from Discount tire for all 4 Good Year original tires (245x45x19) for $225. This way, I figure that for less than the cost of 1 tire I can actually drive on the RFTs on flat if I get one, and just get them replaced, without having to worry that I'll void their manufacturer's warranty.

Getting that insurance at a decent price gives me the peace of mind of knowing that if a flat does happen on the highway, I can just keep going, and I'll just get a new tire.

Originally Posted by pal joey

a couple of tire questions,i been thinking of,but dont have answers for.

has anyone here experimented with differant tire pressures,on the 19 inch ls2 ?
bmw recommends 35 front 39 rear.
variations in pressure will affect affect a number of things,but will it affect the probability of sidewall bubbles?
if so what pressure would it be better to run at?

also what about 535 gt with x drive and sport package.
i know their tires are sized differant then f10,and i believe they have staggered sizes .
but i think their fronts are 245 45 19. what make and model tire are o.e. on gt sport with x drive?
does the bubble problem also exist with gt drivers? and if it does is it on the same level or to a lesser degree?

would going from 245 40 19 to 245 45 19, have a minimal , significant, or no differance at all in regard to sidewall bubbles ?
since the 245 45 would require more air then the 245 40,it that a plus ?
does more air volume reduce the chances of bubbles?
if it does can adding a couple of more pounds then recommended pressure reduce the the chances of damage?
or would it have the opposite affect,making it more difficult for the tire to contract and expand on impact?

or is the amount of air volume in a tire a non factor and what is a factor is the increased height of the sidewall.

535i xDrive with the sport package does NOT have staggered sizes. They come with all season RFT's of the same size front and rear, Goodyear LS2's on my 2011. Never had a bubble issue. Had a flat and Goodyear covered it 100% during the first year.

Originally Posted by stancv

I wanted to give an update regarding the tire/insurance issues discussed in this thread. I ended up declining BMW's tire& wheel insurance, as they were increasing the price on me (from $1150/5yrs to $1350/5yrs) between car order and delivery time. I instead purchased road hazard insurance from Discount tire for all 4 Good Year original tires (245x45x19) for $225. This way, I figure that for less than the cost of 1 tire I can actually drive on the RFTs on flat if I get one, and just get them replaced, without having to worry that I'll void their manufacturer's warranty.

Getting that insurance at a decent price gives me the peace of mind of knowing that if a flat does happen on the highway, I can just keep going, and I'll just get a new tire.

Good move. Just remember that Goodyear will replace the tires free during the first year or 2/32" of tread wear regardless of what the road hazard was and will pro-rate the tire up to 6 years. That at no charge to you. I don't remember if there is any pro-rating to the Discount guarantee; If not and all you just pay for is mounting and balance is a good deal indeed!

Originally Posted by magnumforc

Good move. Just remember that Goodyear will replace the tires free during the first year or 2/32" of tread wear regardless of what the road hazard was and will pro-rate the tire up to 6 years. That at no charge to you. I don't remember if there is any pro-rating to the Discount guarantee; If not and all you just pay for is mounting and balance is a good deal indeed!

It is my understanding that if you drive on the tire flat they will not replace it. In other words you must keep air in it in order to maintain that warranty (stop and pump, until you get to Good year). Am I wrong?


I also got the Discount Tire lifetime rotation and balancing for $65. The reason I went with them is that after I hit a curve last week with my other BMW, and it developed a bubble, they replaced it without comments with a new tire (MSRP~$225) and all I paid was $35 for insurance for the new tire. So with the GT, in case I get a road hazard I expect to pay ~$50 to insure the new tire. However, I'll definitely consider getting a free one from Good Year if I can. Do you pay balancing and installation there?

Originally Posted by stancv

It is my understanding that if you drive on the tire flat they will not replace it. In other words you must keep air in it in order to maintain that warranty (stop and pump, until you get to Good year). Am I wrong?


I also got the Discount Tire lifetime rotation and balancing for $65. The reason I went with them is that after I hit a curve last week with my other BMW, and it developed a bubble, they replaced it without comments with a new tire (MSRP~$225) and all I paid was $35 for insurance for the new tire. So with the GT, in case I get a road hazard I expect to pay ~$50 to insure the new tire. However, I'll definitely consider getting a free one from Good Year if I can. Do you pay balancing and installation there?

The replacement policy has nothing to do with Goodyear stores or dealers. It's Goodyear themselves who make the policy. If you puncture or otherwise damege an RFT during the first 12 months or 2/32 of use it gets replaced. No cost. Some places may charge for balancing and mounting, my BMW dealer did not once he spoke with Goodyear.

And yes, it comes from experience. I ran over a 4" spike and ran it through the tread right at the edge of the sidewall and drove the vehicle to the dealer. Only issue is that most dealers and that includes Discount do not have the tires available the same day. So, your car will sit until they get the tire from a distribution center. Remember the tires are made in Germany and not stocked by most dealers and stores. The good thing for me is that BMW gives loaners so I had wheels until mine was available.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by magnumforc

The replacement policy has nothing to do with Goodyear stores or dealers. It's Goodyear themselves who make the policy. If you puncture or otherwise damege an RFT during the first 12 months or 2/32 of use it gets replaced. No cost. Some places may charge for balancing and mounting, my BMW dealer did not once he spoke with Goodyear.

And yes, it comes from experience. I ran over a 4" spike and ran it through the tread right at the edge of the sidewall and drove the vehicle to the dealer. Only issue is that most dealers and that includes Discount do not have the tires available the same day. So, your car will sit until they get the tire from a distribution center. Remember the tires are made in Germany and not stocked by most dealers and stores. The good thing for me is that BMW gives loaners so I had wheels until mine was available.

Cheers.

Well, then for the first year the obvious choice is to get a new tire from Good Year by getting it serviced at BMW (and getting a loaner from them), and after that to use Discount tire and hope they get it fast. Thanks for the info.

I thought I'd give an update on the tires; no problems so far at 13K miles. I do rotate them (front to back, same side) given that all 4 are the same size (x-drive), even though BMW suggests that you shouldn't . On another BMW I had bad thread wear on the rears so now I proactively rotate, against their advice (no uneven wear so far).