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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 09-30-2015, 05:30 PM
yorgovernor yorgovernor is offline
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Mein Auto: 99 528i 02 528i 03 540i
2000 528i Security lockout no start bull****

My 2000 528i won't start. All the dash lights illuminate but when I turn the key...nothing. I have read all(well, a lot) of the posts about the EWS, DME, codes and key programming and believe I have a lay mans understanding of BMW's idea of security. I wouldn't post here without reading up first.
Here's what happened. The one key I have for the car has always performed all the required and expected functions without fault. Then last week, I'm sitting in the parked car, key out of the ignition, I believe the doors locked for about 15 minutes and the alarm goes off! Surprised the **** out of me then. (Now, I know the interior motion detector was triggered.) First thing I did was to put the key in the ignition and turn it. No change, the alarm continued. Next, I pressed all the buttons on the remote. Not all at once but they all got pressed. The alarm continued. Then I got out of the car and used the key in the door lock and the alarm subsided. I then locked the door, went inside the house and went to bed.
Next day, as usual, the key remote unlocks my door, I get in, try to start the car and nothing.
What I don't understand is...it is the same key...the same car...aren't they already programmed to recognize each other as they always have.
Either Deiter, BMW's practical joking engineer, came up with a good one this time or something broke. Can I get the car to recognize it's own key again?
EWSIII(3.3)
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2015, 07:09 PM
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TheAngryBear TheAngryBear is offline
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You should be able to do it by re initializing the key. EWSIII isn't recognizing your key so either 1) you need to reinitialize the key or 2) you ring antena is bad.

At least that is what I think from my research...
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  #3  
Old 09-30-2015, 07:24 PM
ca2014mp2 ca2014mp2 is offline
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and make sure your battery is up in charge and your hood alarm switch is disconnected then retest.
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Series E39 Vehicle code DP63 Model 528ITA Engine M52TU
Body type OTHER Catalog model USA Production date 1999 / 06
Transmission Automatic Steering Left Catalyzer YES

Production FROM : 1998/09/01 TO : 1999/08/31
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  #4  
Old 09-30-2015, 08:20 PM
edjack edjack is offline
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Why not start by scanning for codes?
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2015, 11:40 AM
Rogerthat Rogerthat is offline
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try re-initializing the key... here how from the dealer.
un
1 lock then unlock the doors.
2. get in and close the doors
3. Using the car key, switch the ignition briefly to ignition on position 1 and back to off.
4. remove the key from the ignition. \
5. on key fob press button 2 and hold
6. while holding button 2 down press button 1 3x
7. release button 2.

try to start the car. If it didn't work you have to perform these functions quickly. try again.
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  #6  
Old 10-02-2015, 06:51 PM
yorgovernor yorgovernor is offline
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Here's a progress update of my no start issue. No, here's an update of my no start issue. First I am impressed and grateful all for the sound guidance received here quick.
I checked the codes. P0442(Emission control leak small) Didn't hurt, but didn't help.
I can deal with that after the car starts.
I reprogrammed my key as instructed here and as described in the Bentley service manual with some success. The doors and alarm recognize the key. The buttons on the key open and shut the door locks and activate and deactivate the alarm, but they always did that, before and after the no start issue began.
The ignition system still does not recognize the key. I had hoped the reprogramming would link them again, but...no.
Next, unless I get a better idea, is to replace the key ring antenna. Is it just a straight part swap or is there programming involved? Any input would be highly prized and praised at this time. Thank you.
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  #7  
Old 10-02-2015, 07:24 PM
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TheAngryBear TheAngryBear is offline
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I don't think there is any reprogramming required for the ring antenna. It should be swappable... But on further research not sure if that is the issue.
1) But before we do that, did you check the fuses?
2) try the reset procedure in the manual. I believe you have to disconnect the battery for 10 mins... But procedure should be in manual. If you don't have it a pdf should be in the stickys.
3) report on these then we can start the other avenues....
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  #8  
Old 10-03-2015, 07:14 AM
rdl rdl is offline
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The remote function in the key for locking and alarm have nothing to do with the security chip involved with starting the engine - completely independent systems. For example, you could program a BMW key from a friend's car to lock/unlock yours, but would of course be unable to start your engine.

I assume by "try to start the car and nothing" you mean that the engine doesn't crank, rather than crank but doesn't start. Also you don't hear any sound or click from the starter motor solenoid.

There are a few reports of ring antennas failing. But those all began as an intermittent condition, i.e. repeated turns to "start" position would eventually work after 2 to a dozen attempts. Yours would be the first with a permanent failure on the 1st instance.

See the attached PDF describing EWS operation. You will have EWS III (3.3) so skip to page 20.

Before swapping ring antenna, or other parts, read the starting sequence described at the bottom of page 21. Depending on whether you have a manual or automatic transmission, you should check that the start enable conditions are set. E.g. clutch pedal depressed or transmission range indicator in P or N? A faulty clutch pedal sensor or range indicator fault is a more likely fit with the symptoms than some other (expensive) possibilities mentioned. It may be necessary to use a diagnostic system such as INPA or DIS able to report sensor status to determine if the EWS is seeing all the conditions necessary to enable engine start.

You might also check voltages at the starter. Particularly on the solenoid terminal when the key is in the "start" position. EWS fuses F12 & F37 are OK? Also check ignition switch "start" contact continuity & that B+ voltage is reaching the EWS module.
EDIT: by B+ to EWS, I don't mean through the fuses. Rather via the heavy gauge wire from ignition switch starter contact to the EWS. The EWS connects this circuit to the starter motor solenoid if all start conditions are satisfied.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf EWS.pdf (715.1 KB, 94 views)
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Last edited by rdl; 10-03-2015 at 09:36 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-03-2015, 09:15 AM
sealbeach740 sealbeach740 is offline
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If none of the above solves your problem, I suggest it could also be your electronic ignition switch.
If you turn your key & the dash lights up like normal, but the engine just doesn't turn over at all, try this test:

Put you key in position 2
Pull down the passenger side sun visor
Open the sun visor's vanity mirror cover
If the steering wheel goes up or down, it could very well be your iggy switch is bad (a very common problem with our cars.

A search on ignition switch will give you a lot of info.
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2003 540iS. MKIV, 16x9, PDC, CWP, TV tuner, backup camera with 'on demand' switch, paddle shifters, windows/sunroof close via remote, iPod video & audio.
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  #10  
Old 10-03-2015, 11:15 AM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Question...have you as yet checked the car's battery voltage? Just because the dash lights illuminate...doesn't mean the battery has enough juice to start the car.

Battery voltage around 10.9v can illuminate the dash & interior lights, horn, etc...but won't be enough to start the car. If you have a meter, check the battery's voltage...if you don't...unlock your cluster and do test 9...then report back what the voltage is. At 11.89v...the battery is still 0% state of charge.

If/when you get the car started...I hope the next thing you do is go to your nearest BMW dealership and order a spare key. A good $50-$75 is about the average cost of a non remote key...no need to spend more for a remote key if it will be spending most of its life in a drawer until needed.
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2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 97 740iL (Arctic Silver) 3/97 mfg date
(SOLD)
99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

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Last edited by QSilver7; 10-03-2015 at 11:21 AM.
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  #11  
Old 10-04-2015, 02:19 PM
yorgovernor yorgovernor is offline
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rdl, correct assumptions and thank you for the pdf. I figured the locking and the ignition were separate systems as the locks worked fine. I checked as many of the suggestions and conditions required for starting I am capable of performing. I even tried the passenger sun visor not being one to question the lengths Dieter may go for a joke. I only possess a multi meter. The battery voltage is 11.8 and I am nearing my electrical engineering knowledge limit. $$ spent acquiring fancy diagnostic equipment may be better spend hiring a qualified mechanic with the equipment to perform the tests. Thank you for all your all your qualified help. I wish you were here but I will keep you informed.
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  #12  
Old 10-04-2015, 02:28 PM
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TheAngryBear TheAngryBear is offline
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Battery voltage needs to be 12.5+. Try overnight charger or equivalent battery tender. 11.5 may NOT start the car but will give weird electronic issues. Not sure what the min threshold is for start. Think it is like 11.8 or something.

Last edited by TheAngryBear; 10-04-2015 at 02:30 PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-04-2015, 03:33 PM
rdl rdl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorgovernor View Post
rdl, correct assumptions and thank you for the pdf. I figured the locking and the ignition were separate systems as the locks worked fine. I checked as many of the suggestions and conditions required for starting I am capable of performing. I even tried the passenger sun visor not being one to question the lengths Dieter may go for a joke. I only possess a multi meter. The battery voltage is 11.8 and I am nearing my electrical engineering knowledge limit. $$ spent acquiring fancy diagnostic equipment may be better spend hiring a qualified mechanic with the equipment to perform the tests. Thank you for all your all your qualified help. I wish you were here but I will keep you informed.
Unlikely as it sounds, the visor suggestion wasn't a joke. Many have reported that a dodgy ignition switch will react as described.

Full featured diagnostic equipment for an E39 can be had for ~$50. INPA & DIS are BMW s/w and can be found on the internet. All you need to buy is an OBD cable to connect to a laptop (or desktop for that matter if you're willing to lug it out to your garage.) Packages of cable and s/w can be found on ebay and many other sites.
See these links for an introduction as well as assistance getting started
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=561237
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/fo...ostic-Software
Worth investigating for the future perhaps.

You should ask around for a recommendation before putting yourself at the mercy of a shop that may talk a better game than they play. Electrical diagnosis can get very expensive very quickly if you have the misfortune to run into someone who swaps parts until they luck out on the true cause.
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  #14  
Old 10-04-2015, 04:38 PM
yorgovernor yorgovernor is offline
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Thank you for the heads-up but I am a tad more savvy with mechanics than I am with electricity. I use mechanics who I have other dealings with and can return any "unfavors" in kind as insurance. It is good to have a contact in every business. (To date I am still at the mercy of lawyers and doctor though.) And I would rather get the equipment, do the required learning and be wealthier and wiser myself. It seems everything in life is a series on problems. We cruise along happily ignorant, taking it all for granted, until a problem arises. Then learning is required to resume cruising happily along, taking it all for granted, until the next problem. Enjoy the learning. Enough philosophy...onto BMW diagnostics. I'll use the mechanic as a tudor. And let you know.
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  #15  
Old 10-04-2015, 05:22 PM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorgovernor View Post
The battery voltage is 11.8 and I am nearing my electrical engineering knowledge limit.
As previously mentioned...at this voltage...the car may not start but electronics like dash lights will illuminate. Before you do anything else...get a battery charger on the battery....please use the jump start terminals in the engine bay...if you don't have a charger but you do have jumper cables and a donor vehicle...again, hook up to the engine bay terminals. You may need to let the donor car charge your battery for a good 5 minutes before a start attempt...or use your meter and when the battery voltage gets to or above 12 volts...give it a try to start.



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Q {BMW CCA Member #191509}
2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 97 740iL (Arctic Silver) 3/97 mfg date
(SOLD)
99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

http://imageshack.com/scaled/grid240/822/e38e532ndsigpic.jpg

Last edited by QSilver7; 10-04-2015 at 05:24 PM.
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  #16  
Old 10-04-2015, 05:22 PM
ca2014mp2 ca2014mp2 is offline
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I dont know about 'unfavors' or lawyers etc.. but in post 3 and others. It was pointed out about the importance of battery voltage.. has this been addressed and if not are you going to?
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Series E39 Vehicle code DP63 Model 528ITA Engine M52TU
Body type OTHER Catalog model USA Production date 1999 / 06
Transmission Automatic Steering Left Catalyzer YES

Production FROM : 1998/09/01 TO : 1999/08/31
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  #17  
Old 10-04-2015, 11:01 PM
yorgovernor yorgovernor is offline
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Charged the battery all day today on the engine terminals with my battery charger. The voltage rose to 12.1. I thought that was adequate but since the battery in the 540i was reading 12.19 I decided to switch them. The 540i started on the first crank. The 528i did not. The key illuminated the dash lights brightly in first position but produced nothing upon further turning, no solenoid click and obviously no crank. Thank you for the reminder to be thorough and practice good fundamentals.
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  #18  
Old 10-05-2015, 02:48 AM
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TheAngryBear TheAngryBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorgovernor View Post
Charged the battery all day today on the engine terminals with my battery charger. The voltage rose to 12.1. I thought that was adequate but since the battery in the 540i was reading 12.19 I decided to switch them. The 540i started on the first crank. The 528i did not. The key illuminated the dash lights brightly in first position but produced nothing upon further turning, no solenoid click and obviously no crank. Thank you for the reminder to be thorough and practice good fundamentals.
Time to check the starter... Have you done the visor test?
And per the post by Q, unless you remove the battery, charge through the engine mounts. These cars don't like having the batteries played with while in....
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Old 10-05-2015, 04:49 AM
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pudl pudl is online now
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Originally Posted by TheAngryBear View Post
charge through the engine mounts
Now that is a novel approach!
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Old 10-05-2015, 05:17 AM
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TheAngryBear TheAngryBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pudl View Post
Now that is a novel approach!
Ha!

I am scrambled this morning. After the 3rd coffee I see the visor was tried, he charged properly, and I am just going to go sit quietly in the corner...
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  #21  
Old 10-26-2015, 06:46 PM
yorgovernor yorgovernor is offline
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I took a break from the '99 no start problem and repaired the exhaust valve leak on the '03 528i. A bit of work but straightforward and easy compared to this anti theft bull****. So...with renewed confidence I went back over this thread to reacquaint myself, performed the aforementioned suggestions and maintenance (Charged the battery, checked the fuses, jumped the starter), and traced the problem to somewhere between the key and the starter solenoid.

I also noticed the clock is not working on the dash or the radio. When I press the BC on the turn signal, it displays nothing. When pressed again it shows the temperature, MPG, M, MPH then back to blank. Held down it does nothing.
The radio and cd player work fine but without displaying the time. The clock/BC button on the radio does nothing when pressed, pressed twice, held down, at all.

Is this related to the immobilizer? Somewhere(here) I read the immobilized will cut the radio. Close, but...the radio works. Did it cut the clock? Or the OBC which controls the clock? The EWS.pdf never mentions the radio or clock.

I'm just saying...I don't know. And I wanted to post my progress for everyone that has helped.
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  #22  
Old 10-27-2015, 09:15 AM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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No the immobilizer does not "cut" the radio.

I can't tell which cluster/MID or cluster/Nav set-up you have. The 528i in the US usually came with the low cluster/low MID as standard. Is this what you have...or do you have the high cluster/high MID or high cluster/Nav?

If you have the low cluster/low MID...your MID should NOT have the BC button on it because you should also have the low cluster which does NOT have the extended OBC. Your low cluster OBC only has 4 features:



If you have the low cluster (which is obvious when you only have the Graphic Display for check control instead of the high cluster's 20 digit alpha/numeric display)...then you have the WRONG MID installed in the car and that could be part of your issues. The low MID doesn' t have the BC button to call up the OBC functions because it only uses the BC button on the turn indicator stalk.

BTW...the MID is NOT your radio...the MID is just a simple display/control device for multiple components...the radio is the in-dash cassette or CD player (if you have the MID)...or in the trunk/cargo area on the sedan/Touring if you have onBoard Nav:

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Q {BMW CCA Member #191509}
2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 97 740iL (Arctic Silver) 3/97 mfg date
(SOLD)
99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

http://imageshack.com/scaled/grid240/822/e38e532ndsigpic.jpg

Last edited by QSilver7; 10-27-2015 at 09:19 AM.
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  #23  
Old 10-27-2015, 10:07 AM
DesertE38 DesertE38 is offline
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I diagnosed a E60 with a failed key chip.
(Surprisingly it was definitely the case)Try your other key if you have a spare. The owner of the E60 did not have a spare, so I took it to a locksmith who had a "chip reader". The Chip reader could not recognize that a chip existed, thus telling me the RF chip failed. Of course they would not have had the ability to make a BMW key anyway, but it was diagnostic. She ordered a new key from the dealer; problem solved.
Not saying this is certainly your issue, just another possibility
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  #24  
Old 10-27-2015, 11:48 AM
MKJS MKJS is offline
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Think a power check at the starter would be a good place to look is you haven't already done it.
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  #25  
Old 12-27-2016, 12:54 PM
yorgovernor yorgovernor is offline
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It's not the key or the programming. After giving up on the problem for a month and switching to the 540i, on a whim I try the 528i and it starts on the first crank! Cool. I drive it for a week. No problems. Starts first crank every time. Then...at the indian casino sixty miles from home, the same problem returns. Turn the key, dash lights up, no click, no fuel pump whir, no crank, bull****. The battery is new and charged. Having an intermittent problem is the worst. Can it be the starter solenoid?
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