2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.

Originally Posted by blueguydotcom

Configurator is up at Caddy:

http://www.cadillac.com/ats-luxury-s...-your-own.html

Looks like Carsdirect has prices too. The ATS Performance model with the turbo and manual only rings in at 41k, navi is another 1k. The Premium 2.0 with manual, adds magnetic ride, LSD, HUD, navi, etc for 44k.

Intriguing...

I agree. I also dig this interior....

Originally Posted by windsor027

I don't know guys, 6 speed auto of the 3.6L car? really? Personally I think the main competition for the F30 will come from Infiniti when they bring out the all new G37 because I got to tell you the current G37 MT6 is not far behind now.

Hmmm. G37 is fun and cheap with the 6 MT but even then I just don't think it measures up to a 3 series.

Originally Posted by mr_clueless

Looks-wise (both exterior, but more importantly interior), it doesn't excite me as much as the F30.

So far based on the photos the ATS looks promising, but I will wait till I see it in person. I have said it before, for me to consider an F30 just for the exterior look alone, I will have to wait for the M-Sport to see if I can accept it.

Originally Posted by blueguydotcom

Configurator is up at Caddy:

http://www.cadillac.com/ats-luxury-s...-your-own.html

Looks like Carsdirect has prices too. The ATS Performance model with the turbo and manual only rings in at 41k, navi is another 1k. The Premium 2.0 with manual, adds magnetic ride, LSD, HUD, navi, etc for 44k.

Intriguing...

If the CTS is any indication, $5 to $6k off the msrp is a high possibility a year or two after introduction. Consider that the ATS is actually priced very close to CTS, there has to be a real world price differential between the two. Of course if ATS sells very well out of the gate, it will be another story.

Does anyone actually think this car will sell? I think its a good idea but it looks like a CTS, in my opinion, based on look, there's nothing sporty about it.

Originally Posted by jtuds

Does anyone actually think this car will sell? I think its a good idea but it looks like a CTS, in my opinion, based on look, there's nothing sporty about it.

Well, that's really up to the eye of the beholder. Some will think it looks sporty, some not....

Originally Posted by blueguydotcom

Hmmm. G37 is fun and cheap with the 6 MT but even then I just don't think it measures up to a 3 series.

I didn't say it measures up, I said from a driver's seat perspective its not far behind. Infiniti will redesign it in the next 12 to 18 months so they they stick on course I would put the G37 being a major headache for F30 than the Cadillac.

Originally Posted by jtuds

Does anyone actually think this car will sell? I think its a good idea but it looks like a CTS, in my opinion, based on look, there's nothing sporty about it.

Feel the same about the A4, IS, G37, C and F30. They're all bland, dowdy cars. I wouldn't buy an entry-lux car for the appearance as all of them are severely lacking in that area.

And yes I think it will sell. Based on that pricing it will undercut the Audi, C and BMW alternatives and potentially offer better handling and it'd be hard to offer worse reliability.

Originally Posted by blueguydotcom

Feel the same about the A4, IS, G37, C and F30. They're all bland, dowdy cars. I wouldn't buy an entry-lux car for the appearance as all of them are severely lacking in that area.

And yes I think it will sell. Based on that pricing it will undercut the Audi, C and BMW alternatives and potentially offer bed handling and it'd be hard to offer worse reliability.

That is exactly how the ATS might surprise those who have very low expectation of, and traditionally stayed away from Caddies. ATS does not have to win on all fronts to gain shares.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...ac-ats-111656/

Wow talk about amateur videos and a bad looking ATS base model 2.5L.

I like the sound of the 3.6L though, given the poor video quality.

Audi A4 vs. BMW 3-Series vs. Cadillac ATS vs. Lexus IS 350 vs. Mercedes-Benz C-Class (aesthetic comparison only)

@mdsbuc - I can sum it up in one sentence: All these cars have the visual presence of a loaf of Wonder bread.

Originally Posted by mdsbuc

Audi A4 vs. BMW 3-Series vs. Cadillac ATS vs. Lexus IS 350 vs. Mercedes-Benz C-Class (aesthetic comparison only)

Do they have any idea the C class has two distinct looks, Sport and Luxury? And if the F30 Luxury has the best front design, what's the point of having the M Sport trim?

Originally Posted by brkf

@mdsbuc - I can sum it up in one sentence: All these cars have the visual presence of a loaf of Wonder bread.

What? You don't dig those colorful little balloons on the packaging?!!!

There are a lot of visual aspects of the F30 that I really like, interior and exterior. I'd possibly give the ATS the best looking a$$. Also its interior in red looks promising to me. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....

Originally Posted by mdsbuc

Also its interior in red looks promising to me. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....

To me A4 has the best exterior (front and rear) and BMW has the best interior (not the modern line which is in the photos). The caddy looks ugly any way I look at it...guess it's just too square/angular for my liking.

I've seen reviews saying the Camaro ZL1 has excellent steering (good feedback) and brake feel, great magnetic suspension and a really good stability control with race setting.

Hopefully this is promising for an ATS-V (if not the regular ATS), if it can have those aspects from the ZL1 combined with more practical configuration, it could be a great car.

I've actually seen this car in person, and I must say, the exterior looks much better in person. That pointy rear bumper looks like a jet exhaust port from Batman movies of yore, so it may or may not appeal to some folks. Also, that 2.0 can really compete with the BMW 2.0. I was very close in choosing this car, but I couldn't get enough info early in the year to really compare. And now that I do have 335i M sport in order, there's no comparison: the M Sport aggressive look is much more desirable to me (or it just grew on me, idk )

As an overall car? It appealed to me because of the magnetic shocks (from CTS-V), acclaimed 50-50 weight distribution, and unique infotainment system. But looking at the build your vehicle site and configuring it with the blue, it just looks too tame. Booo.

Also, anyone see the Advanced Security Package? That tilt sensor looks interesting. Speaking of which, does BMW even have wheel locks?

The 3er's alarm system has a tilt sensor and an interior motion detector, which will detect breaking glass or, if you lock the car with the windows down far enough for someone to reach inside, will detect a hand reaching into the car.

Originally Posted by johnofcross

I've actually seen this car in person, and I must say, the exterior looks much better in person. That pointy rear bumper looks like a jet exhaust port from Batman movies of yore, so it may or may not appeal to some folks. Also, that 2.0 can really compete with the BMW 2.0. I was very close in choosing this car, but I couldn't get enough info early in the year to really compare. And now that I do have 335i M sport in order, there's no comparison: the M Sport aggressive look is much more desirable to me (or it just grew on me, idk )

As an overall car? It appealed to me because of the magnetic shocks (from CTS-V), acclaimed 50-50 weight distribution, and unique infotainment system. But looking at the build your vehicle site and configuring it with the blue, it just looks too tame. Booo.

Also, anyone see the Advanced Security Package? That tilt sensor looks interesting. Speaking of which, does BMW even have wheel locks?

The anti-theft system on my E70 has all of those sensors. Wheel locks are an optional extra at the dealer, I think. Dealer threw them in for me.

Originally Posted by jtuds

Does anyone actually think this car will sell? I think its a good idea but it looks like a CTS, in my opinion, based on look, there's nothing sporty about it.

From an engineering standpoint, it sounds like the ATS is a great car. I am just confused as to what age group they are marketing this to. The majority of 3-series buyers are younger and as they age, many move into larger models. I find it hard to believe that a Cadillac that looks like the rest of the Cadillac lineup will appeal to 20-somethings. To me and many in my age group, Cadillac=grandparents (except for the Escalade of course). Maybe this is because I live in Florida and there are a lot of retired people here driving around Cadillacs, but when I see one, I think old person. A part of the car buying decision is emotional and at least for me, no matter how great the car is, I would not buy it if I was embarrassed to pull up to a group of my friends in it. I think that Cadillac has an image problem that will definitely hurt ATS sales if they are targeting a younger age group. I don't think that the problem is unchangeable, but they definitely need to work hard to shed their image of the car maker of retired south Floridians.

Originally Posted by gator15

From an engineering standpoint, it sounds like the ATS is a great car. I am just confused as to what age group they are marketing this to. The majority of 3-series buyers are younger and as they age, many move into larger models. I find it hard to believe that a Cadillac that looks like the rest of the Cadillac lineup will appeal to 20-somethings. To me and many in my age group, Cadillac=grandparents (except for the Escalade of course). Maybe this is because I live in Florida and there are a lot of retired people here driving around Cadillacs, but when I see one, I think old person. A part of the car buying decision is emotional and at least for me, no matter how great the car is, I would not buy it if I was embarrassed to pull up to a group of my friends in it. I think that Cadillac has an image problem that will definitely hurt ATS sales if they are targeting a younger age group. I don't think that the problem is unchangeable, but they definitely need to work hard to shed their image of the car maker of retired south Floridians.

Cadillac is well aware of this perception, and this is absolutely why they are building "sportier" cars today than they did over the past few decades. Btw, the CTS is a sportier ride, when ordered and set up properly, than the F10 5er. When I sold my E60 with sport package two years ago, the CTS gave me a closer feel to the E60, a car that I dearly loved, than the F10 did. I would say that the CTS gave me 80% of the sporting feel vs. 50% or less for the new 5er. When I do an ED next April (or May,) the choice will be between the F10 and the F30. With the F30 I expect to have 90% percent of that old E60 feel. If I decide on the F10, it will be 50% of that old feel, but with a lot more luxury. That's OK, I'm old, and the F10 will be "my Cadillac."

I think Cadillac is going a good job changing its image from a grandpa-at-the-countryclub car to a true contender in the premium sport/luxury category. The CTS was the first Caddy I've been interested in, and the ATS even more-so. Before long, I think Cadillac will have the same buying demographic as brands such as BMW and Audi.

Originally Posted by OBS3SSION

I think Cadillac is going a good job changing its image from a grandpa-at-the-countryclub car to a true contender in the premium sport/luxury category. The CTS was the first Caddy I've been interested in, and the ATS even more-so. Before long, I think Cadillac will have the same buying demographic as brands such as BMW and Audi.

The last person I personally know that bought a Caddy was a 75 year old woman who bought a CTS coupe.

Originally Posted by gator15

From an engineering standpoint, it sounds like the ATS is a great car. I am just confused as to what age group they are marketing this to. The majority of 3-series buyers are younger and as they age, many move into larger models. I find it hard to believe that a Cadillac that looks like the rest of the Cadillac lineup will appeal to 20-somethings. To me and many in my age group, Cadillac=grandparents (except for the Escalade of course). Maybe this is because I live in Florida and there are a lot of retired people here driving around Cadillacs, but when I see one, I think old person. A part of the car buying decision is emotional and at least for me, no matter how great the car is, I would not buy it if I was embarrassed to pull up to a group of my friends in it. I think that Cadillac has an image problem that will definitely hurt ATS sales if they are targeting a younger age group. I don't think that the problem is unchangeable, but they definitely need to work hard to shed their image of the car maker of retired south Floridians.

Not sure where you get your demos but the 3 series demographic skews older than you think. The average age of a 3 series buyer is 39 and a household income less than 100k. Not exactly the young well-heeled group BoltJames pretends it is.

Caddy is trying to lure more entry lux buyers as the CTS is more of a 5 series fighter. The market is big and ripe. The TL, C, A4, G, IS and 3 make up over 300k sales. That's a lot of cash for Caddy to steal.

As for appearance, shrug. BMW's bland, CTS has some creases, but overall both will be invisible on the roads. BMW's so common in SoCal it's among the top 10 models sold here; it even outsells the Ford F150...

I'm interested to see how the ATS turns out. I sat in one at an auto show and it was decent.

They say they benchmarked the E46. Hopefully, it drives great.