2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

The anti-theft system on my E70 has all of those sensors. Wheel locks are an optional extra at the dealer, I think. Dealer threw them in for me.

Now is this standard on all 3ers? So the Anti Theft Alarm System includes all these sensors? Sorry I ask, never had a Bimmer before, and my first one is coming in late August

Originally Posted by floydarogers

The last person I personally know that bought a Caddy was a 75 year old woman who bought a CTS coupe.

Oh sure... the blue-hairs still have Cadillac as the go-to brand. Where else are they going to go?

I've seen a 70-something lady taking delivery of a brand new Porsche Boxster. Does that mean those are old-people cars now? And she put the top down too, before driving away!

I agree the ATS needs a sportier looking model a la M Sport - I'm not sure there's any differences visually except the wheels between the sportiest and least sporty ATS?

sure, there will be the ATS-V but that's gonna cost $55-60k.

Originally Posted by brkf

Not sure where you get your demos but the 3 series demographic skews older than you think. The average age of a 3 series buyer is 39 and a household income less than 100k. Not exactly the young well-heeled group BoltJames pretends it is.

Caddy is trying to lure more entry lux buyers as the CTS is more of a 5 series fighter. The market is big and ripe. The TL, C, A4, G, IS and 3 make up over 300k sales. That's a lot of cash for Caddy to steal.

As for appearance, shrug. BMW's bland, CTS has some creases, but overall both will be invisible on the roads. BMW's so common in SoCal it's among the top 10 models sold here; it even outsells the Ford F150...

I admit I have no solid statistics on the demographics of BMW vs. Cadillac buyers. However, I know that when I was in college/law school, a lot of people had 3-series and I can't recall a single person ever having a Cadillac. I am basing my opinions on my perception and am not trying to prove that my opinion is a fact. I am just saying that when I see a Cadillac, I perceive it to be a car for older people. I applaud Cadillac for trying to change this perception and hopefully they can, I wish them no ill will. However, all I am saying is that I think that their brand perception may harm them in this segment.

The majority of my friends own luxury vehicles (BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Infiniti, Range Rover, Lexus etc.) of all types, but I know no one that owns a Cadillac that is my age. Maybe the ATS will change that, but I think that Cadillac has a lot of work to do to get there. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Cadillac and GM succeed and definitely do not want them to fail, I just am not sure if the ATS will be a success simply because of the stigma associated with that logo on the front.

CTSs have been selling well, and not because a lot of retired people buy them, although not too many young buyers either.

But then again, all the entry level luxury cars mentioned above, including ATS, are not necessarily aimed at young buyers, rather more established in their late 30s and 40s.

Originally Posted by Chris90

sure, there will be the ATS-V but that's gonna cost $55-60k.

With the CTS-V starting at $65k then I sure hope the ATS-V is not that close in cost to its bigger brother.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

With the CTS-V starting at $65k then I sure hope the ATS-V is not that close in cost to its bigger brother.

53-55k sounds about right. The next M3 sedan will probably start at 60k...

Originally Posted by Snipe656

With the CTS-V starting at $65k then I sure hope the ATS-V is not that close in cost to its bigger brother.

The regular ATS is only $2k cheaper than a CTS.

Originally Posted by Chris90

The regular ATS is only $2k cheaper than a CTS.

ATS should sell well even if it cost the same as a CTS, provided that the CTS is now discounted to the point it cost less than the 3ers.

As an example, a base CTS (with a 3.6L) can be leased for under $300/mo. with no money down. If the upcoming ATS 3.6L could be had for similar payment, it would be a very hot seller.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...orAuthority%29

At least one mistake they compared the 3.6L mpg to the E90 335's, not the new model.

But the ATS 2.0T has potential. It appears Caddy has put the most work into this line.

I applaud caddy for trying. I don't have much faith in them...just know too many people with issues in their caddys (reliabilty, getting stranded) that would keep me from even considering them. However competition makes the cars better, so get after it caddy.

Originally Posted by Mrcarcrazy

I applaud caddy for trying. I don't have much faith in them...just know too many people with issues in their caddys (reliabilty, getting stranded) that would keep me from even considering them. However competition makes the cars better, so get after it caddy.

The latest JD Power survey showed Caddy in the top five, I think BMW is no. 10, Audi is just below industrial average.

The most interesting stat will be the curb weight of the ATS 2.0T.

Originally Posted by dtc100

The latest JD Power survey showed Caddy in the top five, I think BMW is no. 10, Audi is just below industrial average.

The most interesting stat will be the curb weight of the ATS 2.0T.

You trust JD Power much more than I.

Originally Posted by Mrcarcrazy

You trust JD Power much more than I.

I guess Lexus isn't that reliable after all.

Originally Posted by dtc100

I guess Lexus isn't that reliable after all.

I have no problems with the reliablity of Lexus cars. Not sure why you're changing the subject, come on, back on topic. Caddy!

Originally Posted by Mrcarcrazy

I have no problems with the reliablity of Lexus cars. Not sure why you're changing the subject, come on, back on topic. Caddy!

I guess you need me to explain everything. Lexus and Caddy are both in the JD Power top five. Things can change for a company.

Originally Posted by dtc100

I guess you need me to explain everything. Lexus and Caddy are both in the JD Power top five. Things can change for a company.

Nope, I don't need you do explain anything to me. JD power and Associates has nothing to do with this thread...you're trying to start a pissing match...I'm just not biting (b/c I fail to care).


I dislike Caddy b/c of the recent experiences friends/family have had with their cars...not sure how I can explain that to you more clearly (I don't care what a firm says, I care what personal experiences of ppl I trust say).

Originally Posted by Mrcarcrazy

Nope, I don't need you do explain anything to me. JD power and Associates has nothing to do with this thread...you're trying to start a pissing match...I'm just not biting (b/c I fail to care).


I dislike Caddy b/c of the recent experiences friends/family have had with their cars...not sure how I can explain that to you more clearly (I don't care what a firm says, I care what personal experiences of ppl I trust say).

You probably ignored all the talk about how unreliable BMWs are, from "personal experiences."

Originally Posted by dtc100

You probably ignored all the talk about how unreliable BMWs are, from "personal experiences."

How'd you guess?

Originally Posted by Mrcarcrazy

How'd you guess?

You do drive a BMW? I can't tell with the mobile app.

Originally Posted by dtc100

You do drive a BMW? I can't tell with the mobile app.

At times, yes.

We have a 2004 Z4 with 81k on it...never a single problem (knock on wood)

Anywho, we should get back on topic.

http://jalopnik.com/5921693/journali...rom-race-track

Good sign or bad sign?

I did find out the 2.0T auto comes in at 3373 lbs. The manual is actually heavier.

Originally Posted by dtc100

http://jalopnik.com/5921693/journali...rom-race-track

Good sign or bad sign?

I did find out the 2.0T auto comes in at 3373 lbs. The manual is actually heavier.

just shows journalists don't know what they are doing


Glad everyone came out w/o injury...Those GA backroads can be rather deadly so I'm told.

I'm impressed they were able to roll it. (not in a positive manner)

http://media.cadillac.com/media/us/e...2013.tab1.html

After more reading, I noticed the ATS 2.0T compression ratio is only 9:1, which does not require premium fuel, compared to the N20 at about 18:1. Looks to me the ATS 2.0T should have much greater tuning potential.

Originally Posted by dtc100

http://media.cadillac.com/media/us/e...2013.tab1.html

After more reading, I noticed the ATS 2.0T compression ratio is only 9:1, which does not require premium fuel, compared to the N20 at about 18:1. Looks to me the ATS 2.0T should have much greater tuning potential.

Dangerous gamble running low octane fuel in a turbo motor...Granted the knock sensor should pull boost and or timing when it feels knock. THat's not a safe thing to try in my personal experiences (owning a number of FI cars) It will likely just pull one of the above which lowers the HP/TQ....but keeps you from blowing up your motor...

FWIW, the N20's compression ratio is not 18:1....it's 10:1
http://www.examiner.com/article/best...-four-cylinder
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

And per your link the Caddy is 9.5:1