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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #376  
Old 06-27-2012, 12:49 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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My bad, 18:1 was the compression ratio some tuner reached in the N54 engine with 93 octane and higher.

I think despite all the pretty numbers, the elephant in the room is, how do the ATS 3.6 and 2.0 drive? But given that Caddy has so far kept its words on the (not all so important) stats, maybe they have also managed to make the ATS drive like the E46. And if they have also given the 2.0T some sweet exhaust note, as they said they would, this thing can really push me over the edge.

Last edited by dtc100; 06-27-2012 at 12:52 PM.
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  #377  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:04 PM
Mrcarcrazy Mrcarcrazy is offline
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As long as it does better than the Catera (I'm sure it will). I think it will be good competition for the entire class of cars. It won't be for me...but Caddy has pulled in a new crowd with the V cars...so I could see this line helping that as well (even on the non V cars).
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  #378  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:09 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Nope, I don't need you do explain anything to me. JD power and Associates has nothing to do with this thread...you're trying to start a pissing match...I'm just not biting (b/c I fail to care).


I dislike Caddy b/c of the recent experiences friends/family have had with their cars...not sure how I can explain that to you more clearly (I don't care what a firm says, I care what personal experiences of ppl I trust say).
Anecdotal experiences are just that. I don't think JD Power is the best rating service out there but in general Cadillac seems to build reliable vehicles according to most ratings companies. BMW certainly has a documented poorer reliability record than Cadillac.

If you want anecdotal evidence, I had a 2006 CTS which in 40,000 miles was problem free except an alignment issue that was the dealer's fault. Then again my 2 e90 328i's have been flawless in a total of 55,000 miles.

Reliability would not be an issue for me if I was to consider an ATS. BMW
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  #379  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:28 PM
Mrcarcrazy Mrcarcrazy is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Anecdotal experiences are just that. I don't think JD Power is the best rating service out there but in general Cadillac seems to build reliable vehicles according to most ratings companies. BMW certainly has a documented poorer reliability record than Cadillac.

If you want anecdotal evidence, I had a 2006 CTS which in 40,000 miles was problem free except an alignment issue that was the dealer's fault. Then again my 2 e90 328i's have been flawless in a total of 55,000 miles.

Reliability would not be an issue for me if I was to consider an ATS. BMW
Everyone has their own horror stories....the problem for me is I used to work on cars for a living...caddys sucked back then...Then every friend/family member that I know who has gone against my suggestion to avoid Caddy has had issues - with the exception of a CTS coupe...it so far, to my knowledge has been good for the 6 months she's owned it...Which is better than my brothers SRX which left him stranded roughly 5 times in 1-1.5yrs....and my bosses Excalade which grendaded the front diff. on the street in the first yr of ownership. (then mutliple other stupid little things afterwards). There are others but I don't want to get off topic...I'm not trying to start an arguement....I just want you to know my experience isn't based off one car. And I take every rating company with a grain of salt (I live by the credence that everyone has an agenda, this may strike you as insane...if so, you'll know what to expect from me in the future).

All makes have their lemons...some have more than others, and some of us do not trust a company after seeing a cpl lemons. This doesn't take away from the fact that Caddy has the ability to make a competitive car in this segment. If they can just do it right this time.

Last edited by Mrcarcrazy; 06-27-2012 at 01:30 PM.
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  #380  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:41 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Reliability would not be an issue for me if I was to consider an ATS. BMW
Yes, true enthusiasts don't put reliability very high on the list anyway.
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  #381  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:44 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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There are others but I don't want to get off topic...
Relax, no one asked any of us to be on-topic police.
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  #382  
Old 06-27-2012, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
If you want anecdotal evidence, I had a 2006 CTS which in 40,000 miles was problem free except an alignment issue that was the dealer's fault. Then again my 2 e90 328i's have been flawless in a total of 55,000 miles.
I'll add my experience. I've got 30,000 trouble free miles on my 2010 CTS. I bought it to replace my '06 530i. I was dissatisfied with the "in the seat driving experience" of test drives of the new F10. The CTS gave me about 80% of that E60 feel, while the F10 gave me less than 50%. I got those results by adding GM's FE3 sport package to the build, and by adding Recaro seats which are much like the comfort seats in the BMW. They don't have the articulating upper back, but do offer adjustable lateral support which was dropped from the F10 comfort seats. The Cadillac, in my opinion, has a nice interior, and fair technology that looks like it may be vastly improved in current iterations. I think from a luxury and technology standpoint BMW is the clear winner. From the driving standpoint the CTS is better than the F10. The "new Cadillac" is nothing like the Cadillac of previous decades. It's not "your father's Car."
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  #383  
Old 06-27-2012, 03:00 PM
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Hard to imagine a CTS/ATS being as unreliable as my 3 series cars. That'd be rough...
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  #384  
Old 06-27-2012, 04:35 PM
LS2 MN6 LS2 MN6 is offline
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You can't really compare the ATS to the CTS, as GM has said the next CTS will move up market to be a true 5er type car. So the ATS can right now come close to the tweener CTS in price.

The Caddy for blue hairs is the XTS. The true test of the CTS's popularity is in the used market. I see a lot of young people (20's or 30's) driving 3-4 year old CTS's. The brand new ones are typically older drivers, but with the MSRP and unattractive lease deals this isn't a shock. Outside of the 328i I don't see many young folks driving BMW's either.
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  #385  
Old 06-27-2012, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by LS2 MN6 View Post
You can't really compare the ATS to the CTS, as GM has said the next CTS will move up market to be a true 5er type car. So the ATS can right now come close to the tweener CTS in price.

The Caddy for blue hairs is the XTS. The true test of the CTS's popularity is in the used market. I see a lot of young people (20's or 30's) driving 3-4 year old CTS's. The brand new ones are typically older drivers, but with the MSRP and unattractive lease deals this isn't a shock. Outside of the 328i I don't see many young folks driving BMW's either.
CTS right now can be had for the 300 range on leases. Ally bank has some insane cash support for CTS leases.
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  #386  
Old 06-28-2012, 06:58 AM
OBS3SSION OBS3SSION is offline
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Just remember that all the Caddy's out now are still "Old GM", which sucked and is what almost put them out of business. The CTS was the first car on their road to recovery, and has improved since its release.

The ATS is "New GM", and one would hope they've learned from the past and can now make a car capable of competing squarely against the BMWs, MBs, Audis, etc. on the global market.

The way I look at it is competition is a good thing. If the ATS looks good (it seems to from pics I've seen), is fun to drive, and priced right, then I'd certainly consider it. I can't imagine GM's quality/reliability can still be worse than German brands...
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  #387  
Old 06-28-2012, 08:34 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Just at about the same time Cadillac provided the specs for the ATS, BMW also updated their 0-60 times for the 2013 3 series.

The 328i comes in at 5.7 (mt) and 5.8 (at), 335 at 5.1 (at), 5.4 (mt) , 5.1 (mt/xi) and 4.8 (at/xi). Their own tested highway mpg remains at 33. I guess they have conceded they will not get the 36 mpg back for the 328i?

So now the 328i is just about the same as the 2.0T ATS, and the 335 stays much ahead of the ATS 3.6

I wonder if BMW tuned up the engines for the 2013 MYs, or simply made an adjustment on the paper. We know many real world test results have been better than their previous published numbers.

What about Caddy? They still have time to fine tune the ATS before actual production

Last edited by dtc100; 06-28-2012 at 08:49 AM.
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  #388  
Old 06-28-2012, 10:51 AM
jlukja jlukja is offline
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....

The 328i comes in at 5.7 (mt) and 5.8 (at), 335 at 5.1 (at), 5.4 (mt) ...
Is that right? The 28 AT is slower but the 35 AT is faster?
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  #389  
Old 06-28-2012, 12:31 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Is that right? The 28 AT is slower but the 35 AT is faster?
According to the BMW website. My speculation is, the more powerful engine, the better a good AT tranny (with advanced ECU control) can utilize the power by putting it down on the pavement. It is especially true if the car has twice the rubber (as on an xi) to put the power down.

More power does not always translate to better 0-60 time, if the tires cannot keep the power down.

Last edited by dtc100; 06-28-2012 at 12:36 PM.
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  #390  
Old 06-28-2012, 04:18 PM
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mdsbuc mdsbuc is offline
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Is that right? The 28 AT is slower but the 35 AT is faster?
I think there are different ATs in the 328 and the 335, but someone should check me on this...
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  #391  
Old 06-28-2012, 04:34 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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I think there are different ATs in the 328 and the 335, but someone should check me on this...
For E90 yes, but F30?

Although even if the hardware is physically the same (gear ratios and all), the ECU programming can be different.

It is also possible BMW fudged the numbers to make the 335 ATs look a lot better than the 328 and 335 MTs, just read their fine print. The motive is there me thinks.

Last edited by dtc100; 06-28-2012 at 04:37 PM.
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  #392  
Old 07-06-2012, 10:19 AM
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The rear-drive Premium ATS (w/ LSD and magnetic ride control) is reportedly $48k.

I love that the moonroof is optional on every model.
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  #393  
Old 07-06-2012, 10:48 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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The rear-drive Premium ATS (w/ LSD and magnetic ride control) is reportedly $48k.

I love that the moonroof is optional on every model.
$48k for 2.0T or 3.6L?

Totally agree with the moonroof option.
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  #394  
Old 07-06-2012, 01:16 PM
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$48k for 2.0T or 3.6L?

Totally agree with the moonroof option.
Sorry, that's the 3.6L actually, which means it won't have the LSD & MRC, which are on the 2.0T only.

But maybe that means the 2.0T will be cheaper.
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  #395  
Old 07-06-2012, 02:21 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Sorry, that's the 3.6L actually, which means it won't have the LSD & MRC, which are on the 2.0T only.

But maybe that means the 2.0T will be cheaper.
LSD and MRC are included in the premium package, whether 2.0T or 3.6L. Of course LSD and MRC are available on 3.6L.
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  #396  
Old 07-07-2012, 04:01 AM
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LSD and MRC are included in the premium package, whether 2.0T or 3.6L. Of course LSD and MRC are available on 3.6L.
Oh right, that's good to know. I was probably thinking of the manual transmission, which isn't available on 3.6 Premium, at least this year.

So 2.0T Premium should be less than $48k, that's not bad.
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  #397  
Old 07-07-2012, 08:40 AM
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Oh right, that's good to know. I was probably thinking of the manual transmission, which isn't available on 3.6 Premium, at least this year.

So 2.0T Premium should be less than $48k, that's not bad.
Carsdirect shows the 2.0T Premium with manual and no sunroof at 44k.
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  #398  
Old 07-07-2012, 10:21 AM
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Having moved into the CTS from the E60, I can say that I believe most will be happy with the build quality of the Cadillac. American cars are not what they used to be in these past few decades. I think most will be happy with the new ATS'es handling characteristics. Just like a BMW, the Caddy will need to be equipped properly. For the CTS I purchased the FE3 performance package, and the Recaro seats. These two features brought me very close to the "feel" of my beloved 5er with sport package and multi-contour seats. Though the car doesn't handle quite as well as the E60, it comes far closer in handling dynamics than the F10 does. A beneficial trade-off for me was that ride comfort is far superior in the Cadillac. I have no more bone jarring shocks when accidentally hitting a pothole, or traversing a speed bump. Coming from the 06 530i, the power coming out of the turns or from a straight line start, is also much better in the CTS. The electronics on the CTS were not as good as in the bimmer, but in this regard I think the new Cadillacs have come a long way since I bought my Caddy two years ago. This should be apparent in the new ATS.

I think that the new ATS may kick the E90's @$$ in a lot of ways, and I think that it will give the F30 a pretty good run. I'd give it a good look as a replacement to my CTS as I've been that pleased with it. I believe the F30 may kick the ATSes butt in rear seat space and trunk room, though I'm not sure about that. These are two points that contributed to my choosing the E60 over the E90 back in '05.

The F30, IMHO, has fixed those two issues, rear seat space and trunk room. It's improved it's looks over the E90, IMHO, and has softened the ride while maintaining most of the good handling characteristics of the old car. This is unlike the F10, which has totally lost any semblance to the E60 in regards to handling.

With a trip to Germany, pending next April, an ED for a new 3er is a perfect situation for me, especially considering that the car "fixes" the problems I had with the previous iteration. If it weren't for the trip though, and for my absolute love of the F30, I'd be giving the ATS a good look in a couple of years.
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  #399  
Old 07-11-2012, 09:51 AM
EricTsang EricTsang is offline
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so the base 2.5 has been rated at 22/33 with less power? Is that engine even comparable since the ATS also has a mid-;eve; 2.0T engine?
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  #400  
Old 07-11-2012, 10:47 AM
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so the base 2.5 has been rated at 22/33 with less power? Is that engine even comparable since the ATS also has a mid-;eve; 2.0T engine?
The base engine's purpose is so Cadillac can advertise a price starting under $34k. The 2.0T starts at $35,800.
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