2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.

Originally Posted by beden1

I threw out the mailer I received from BMW a couple of days ago and also the email that I received. This is what I copied from the BMWUSA site:

Enjoy a Holiday Credit of up to $3,500 on select models at the BMW Happier New Year Event, now until January 2, 2013.1
Current and returning BMW owners can get $750 in lease/finance Loyalty Cash on any new 2012 or 2013 BMW.2
Existing BMW Financial Services customers can take up to $700 off a new 2012 or 2013 BMW. Just download the BMW Ultimate Drive App and take a test drive.
Offer ends December 31, 2012.3

I'll ask my dealer what cars BMW includes on this deal when I take my wife's car in for service for something they screwed up last week when it was there. I love wasting my time!

There's $1000 incentives on 2013 328s, $1500 on 328 coupes etc. $3500 is probably on 7 series or something.

Originally Posted by UnderSteer

Most 7 buyers and are cross shopping the Mercedes S Class, Audi A8, Jag XK, Porsche Panamera. But I suppose there are buyers who had a 3, liked it and then moved on to the 5 and 7. The 7 does not tend to be a first car. And I think this works both way. The 7 gets some sports cred from the 3 and the 3 gets some luxury cred from the 7.

+1. Very well stated.

Originally Posted by boramkiv

The ATS may very well be the best all around entry level sport sedan, but what PISSES me off about GM is that they always leave their vehicles less than perfect. That CUE is going to be devastating. It's a very laggy touchscreen system thats already behind the curve even before its fully available. I't like they've been focused on BMW's dynamics so hard that they completely missed Ford's Sync system and how bad the ratings were on it.

The competition already has instrument cluster-level infotainment screens without touch screen, but GM decided not to do the same. I hope this car delivers because just like Sync, that CUE system will keep it from being perfect. Touch screens (in vehicles) are a thing of the past especially since top manufactures are now elevating them to keep them at eye level.

At a local upscale mall, Cadillac is showing both an XTS and an ATS with the 3.6L -- the latter is supposed to be a direct competitor of my 335i.

While I didn't drive the car (obviously), I did get to sit in it and play with CUE.

The press has been easy on it, even though they've been savaging it. For me, the most disappointing thing about CUE is that the lower section of controls (the part with the power and volume controls) actually flexes 1/4 of an inch every time you press a control. I couldn't believe it did this -- but the XTS also displayed the same behavior.

The Caddy attendant confirmed this was be design.

It completely ruins any perception of quality -- it feels just like the switchgear in a late 90s Chevy Beretta. I am amazed that GM would design a car with "flexing" control panels given that they are trying to restore their reputation for quality. It feels weird, looks weird and it totally out of place in a $50K car.

Originally Posted by Chris90

There's $1000 incentives on 2013 328s, $1500 on 328 coupes etc. $3500 is probably on 7 series or something.

Thanks for the clarification.

If CUE is the only gripe...

I'd say GM has hit a damn Home Run with this vehicle!

~ Big Marcus

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

If CUE is the only gripe...

I'd say GM has hit a damn Home Run with this vehicle!

~ Big Marcus

Yeah, except thousands of BMW owners on this site have been talking about this car for almost a year and not a single one of us has any interest in buying one.

It's a "home run" if you own a Buick or are a 70 year old on a fixed income.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Yeah, except thousands of BMW owners on this site have been talking about this car for almost a year and not a single one of us has any interest in buying one.

It's a "home run" if you own a Buick or are a 70 year old on a fixed income.

BJ

Mmm Hmmm.....

~ Big Marcus

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

Mmm Hmmm.....

~ Big Marcus

When is Big Marcus buying his Cadillac ATS?

Yup. Thought so.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Yeah, except thousands of BMW owners on this site have been talking about this car for almost a year and not a single one of us has any interest in buying one.

It's a "home run" if you own a Buick or are a 70 year old on a fixed income.

BJ

C'mon BJ stop with the bald faced lies. Plenty here had expressed interest in the ATS including myself. If you are going to keep repeating your tired shtick, at least be accurate. I'm a BMW guy for sure, and from the enthusiast side and the ATS appeals to me.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Yeah, except thousands of BMW owners on this site have been talking about this car for almost a year and not a single one of us has any interest in buying one.

BJ

Probably not thousands, more like 6. But someone clearly needs to step up to the plate.

Not gonna be me, $50k buys a lot of German car.

You know what? I'm going to reserve my judgment until I've driven one. Plain and simple.

I buy BMW not because of the toys, or even the quality of the dash materials; I am on my third BMW car now because of driving dynamics. Yes, the other stuff feeds into the perception of the car, but for me 95% of the car is how it feels when I change gears, push the throttle and turn the steering wheel into a sweeping turn.

I won't discount GM; they've built some damned good cars. Back in 1999 I had a brand new Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (my first ever brand new car). Talk about horrible interior materials; but that engine was seriously to die for and just the addition of a strut tower brace completely changed the feel of that thing's steering in the corners. A smaller supercharger pulley and some minor engine mods and the thing was a seriously smoking-fast car. From a driving dynamics perspective it only fell behind because it was front wheel drive. Later versions of the same car never quite had the same feel. I only got rid of it because my new and newly pregnant wife hated the hard ride and the rather unyielding leather.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

C'mon BJ stop with the bald faced lies. Plenty here had expressed interest in the ATS including myself. If you are going to keep repeating your tired shtick, at least be accurate.

BJ and facts?

Like oil and water, BJ and accuracy are mutually repellant.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Given that reasoning why doesn't the F30 come off as a poor man's 5 or 7 Series?

The 3 defines BMW, but the S defines MB. The 7 is the "big BMW", but the C is the "baby Benz."

While I would pick the 3 over the C every day, I would probably pick the S over the 7 if I were to buy that kind of a car.

Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi

The 3 defines BMW, but the S defines MB. The 7 is the "big BMW", but the C is the "baby Benz."

While I would pick the 3 over the C every day, I would probably pick the S over the 7 if I were to buy that kind of a car.

well said

Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi

The 3 defines BMW, but the S defines MB. The 7 is the "big BMW", but the C is the "baby Benz."

While I would pick the 3 over the C every day, I would probably pick the S over the 7 if I were to buy that kind of a car.

I agree and I think that when most people think of a Mercedes they think of an S Class and when they think of a BMW they think of a 3 Series. Based on that Mercedes is generally perceived as a higher end car than BMW. If you are concerned with that kind of stuff you would probably tend to buy an S Class. I bought a 750 after driving both but the S and the 7 are both terrific cars if you are looking for a large luxury sedan. I just got back from Florida where I had a rental C Class for a month. It was a base model and neither my wife or I did not think it drove as well as our 335i. I have never driven a base 3 Series so maybe that was not a fair comparison,

CA

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

C'mon BJ stop with the bald faced lies. Plenty here had expressed interest in the ATS including myself

Ok, so when does yours arrive?

Crass though he may be, he's got a point, which is that there's a big difference between "expressing interest" and actually pulling the trigger.

Seriously, I can't imagine looking at an F30 and an ATS side by side and picking the Caddy. Can you? Really?

Forget driving it (I'm sure I'd be pleasantly surprised how good it is), I just can't get past the styling... it's juvenile and shouty, unrefined... trying to distinguish itself with the overly angular motif, contrived and trying too hard, like they're desperately trying to get it to work, and it still doesn't... they've been trying to get that design language right for a decade now, and it still fails.



(just one professional designer's opinion, let's call it my 3 cents)

Originally Posted by otonimus

Ok, so when does yours arrive?

Crass though he may be, he's got a point, which is that there's a big difference between "expressing interest" and actually pulling the trigger.

Seriously, I can't imagine looking at an F30 and an ATS side by side and picking the Caddy. Can you? Really?

Forget driving it (I'm sure I'd be pleasantly surprised how good it is), I just can't get past the styling... it's juvenile and shouty, unrefined... trying to distinguish itself with the overly angular motif, contrived and trying too hard, like they're desperately trying to get it to work, and it still doesn't... they've been trying to get that design language right for a decade now, and it still fails.



(just one professional designer's opinion, let's call it my 3 cents)

I have a year left on the lease of my 2011 so not till then will I look at the ATS seriously. If it fits in my budget which is my first consideration I'll consider it. If it drives well then I'll seriously consider it. I have no problem with the design which I find taut and muscular. I like the angular look and don't find the F30 (or even my E90) to be anything other than fairly attractive but far from exciting.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

I like the angular look and don't find the F30 (or even my E90) to be anything other than fairly attractive but far from exciting.

Fair enough, if we all dug the same things it would be a boring world

In my opinion, the problem with "exciting" is that it has no staying power... flashy and eye-catching at first, but 6 months after you first see it, it fades into the landscape of forgettable designs, ultimately unsatisfying.

The most successful efforts of BMW, Audi, and Merc aren't "exciting", but 10 years out they still work. Early 2000's S4, mid-2000's E Class, etc. 1986 M3 anyone?

Again, just my opinion.

Originally Posted by otonimus

In my opinion, the problem with "exciting" is that it has no staying power... flashy and eye-catching at first, but 6 months after you first see it, it fades into the landscape of forgettable designs, ultimately unsatisfying.

.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

C'mon BJ stop with the bald faced lies. Plenty here had expressed interest in the ATS including myself. If you are going to keep repeating your tired shtick, at least be accurate. I'm a BMW guy for sure, and from the enthusiast side and the ATS appeals to me.

A lot of BMW owners are expressing "interest" in the concept but no one has expressed interest in "buying" and those are two very different things. One thing to admire what GM is attempting to do, another thing entirely to feel strongly enough to purchase one.

So far, in the dozens of threads by hundreds of BF members in thousands of posts stretching back 10+ months not a single person has stepped up and said "I am buying an ATS". Not one. And those who have expressed "interest" seem to be doing so to prove a point to BMW about how Cadillac is taking the enthusiasts more seriously than BMW themselves are, not because they want to buy one. That's my perception, YMMV.

BJ

Originally Posted by otonimus

I just can't get past the styling... it's juvenile and shouty, unrefined...

The center dash reminds of the overdone boomboxes from Aiwa, Sony, Kenwood, etc. of yesteryears with too many lights. Not very tasteful...at least not my taste.

Captain Audio: well of course there are exceptions...

Remember the first time you saw a Dodge Magnum wagon? Admit it, it looked pquite "exciting" at the time. Pretty bad*ss... now it's just another american car, unrefined and cheap looking... no staying power

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

A lot of BMW owners are expressing "interest" in the concept but no one has expressed interest in "buying" and those are two very different things. One thing to admire what GM is attempting to do, another thing entirely to feel strongly enough to purchase one.

So far, in the dozens of threads by hundreds of BF members in thousands of posts stretching back 10+ months not a single person has stepped up and said "I am buying an ATS". Not one. And those who have expressed "interest" seem to be doing so to prove a point to BMW about how Cadillac is taking the enthusiasts more seriously than BMW themselves are, not because they want to buy one. That's my perception, YMMV.

BJ

You are saying that no one is buying the ATS and then limiting your observations to a BMW specific forum. Does that make sense in the big picture? Also, most here already own a 3 series or are locked into a lease so aren't really in the market. The big picture is the ATS right off the bat and as a clean sheet design is good enough to compete against the F30 if not yet a perfect car (nor is the F30). Time will tell if the ATS is a success and there is no reason to think it won't do well.

As far as Cadillac taking enthusiasts more seriously, in terms of sharpness of handling we know they have succeeded. As an all around car, not so much yet. This is where the F30 is a better designed car at this point.

Originally Posted by mr_clueless

The center dash reminds of the overdone boomboxes from Aiwa, Sony, Kenwood, etc. of yesteryears with too many lights. Not very tasteful...at least not my taste.

That center dash styling to me seems very unthought out. As I recall it is the same as the CTS. I have driven the CTS and the center dash was one of the biggest things that pushed me away from it. For my driving positions the dash was pushing my leg over and making the car feel much smaller than it is.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

That center dash styling to me seems very unthought out. As I recall it is the same as the CTS. I have driven the CTS and the center dash was one of the biggest things that pushed me away from it. For my driving positions the dash was pushing my leg over and making the car feel much smaller than it is.

The automotive world needs to come together and agree that it's time to stop trying to make plastic look like metal. Full stop.