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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #676  
Old 12-18-2012, 01:15 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by SD330i View Post
BJ, now back home in San Diego. Enjoyed our 17 days of Training in Bridgewater NJ. We stayed at the Bridgewater Marriott on Commons across from the Mall. That is a great spot to stay if going to any of the Pharma Companies. Everything is so Close. It was fun to drive by BMW of Bridgewater every day on the way to Sales Training at the Sanofi Campus Headquarters. Weather was not as cold as expected, and we had no snow. Just rain a few days. Never made it to the Clubs. Ha Ha. Maybe next time. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to You and your Family. Hope all the Hurricane Sandy problems are beginning to resolve. Our Corporate Headquarters was closed for a week , as was my friend's who works for J&J down the Street. Keep up the well informed Postings in 2013.
Thanks, and sorry we missed each other.

I should have mentioned that one of the fun things to do is drive up to Park Ridge New Jersey to see BMWs corporate headquarters. There are always some very exotic cars in that parking lot, both old and new, and I've even seen a few prototypes in camouflage as well. Next time.

BJ
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  #677  
Old 12-18-2012, 06:58 PM
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Just as a fun side note about the ATS, I was pricing out the ATS here in MN using the USAA iphone app (which is totally awesome), and the "USAA guaranteed price" for the base was 177 OVER MSRP

Made me laugh out loud.
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  #678  
Old 12-20-2012, 04:52 PM
SD330i SD330i is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Thanks, and sorry we missed each other.

I should have mentioned that one of the fun things to do is drive up to Park Ridge New Jersey to see BMWs corporate headquarters. There are always some very exotic cars in that parking lot, both old and new, and I've even seen a few prototypes in camouflage as well. Next time.

BJ
Thanks BJ, Will PM you the next time I am in NJ. Enjoy the Holiday Season My Friend
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  #679  
Old 12-22-2012, 09:51 PM
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Ok the new M5 is Playboy Magazine's Car of the Year in the family sport sedan category, but the ATS gets Car of the Year in the special "shout out" category.

BJ, correct me if I am wrong, what Playboy was saying, want to please the wife, drive an M5, want to please the mistress, drive an ATS. The F30 does not do either, it is just a nice family car.

Last edited by dtc100; 12-22-2012 at 10:07 PM.
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  #680  
Old 12-23-2012, 02:29 PM
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Thanks BJ, Will PM you the next time I am in NJ. Enjoy the Holiday Season My Friend
Tough day for Your Jets !!!! Too Litttle too late for My Chargers. Fire Norv and AJ. That is all Chargers Fans Want in their Christmas Stockings. Now , Time to go out for a Fun Ride in the Bimmer. Christmas Eve On Monday, where did the year go. Seem like yssteday, we picked up our 335i at the PCD in South Carolina. Still would never be seen in an ATS or even think of Buying one. To each his Own.
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  #681  
Old 12-23-2012, 02:32 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Ok the new M5 is Playboy Magazine's Car of the Year in the family sport sedan category, but the ATS gets Car of the Year in the special "shout out" category.

BJ, correct me if I am wrong, what Playboy was saying, want to please the wife, drive an M5, want to please the mistress, drive an ATS. The F30 does not do either, it is just a nice family car.
I drive an F30 so I do not care what an archaic pornographer thinks about the F10 or a Cadillac.

BJ
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  #682  
Old 12-23-2012, 06:33 PM
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I probably wouldn't accept a ride in someone's car and then tell them their nav looks like an afterthought, but it looks like an afterthought to me - more afterthought than avant garde Nav looks more integrated and purposeful in the 6 series.
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  #683  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:13 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I drive an F30 so I do not care what an archaic pornographer thinks about the F10 or a Cadillac.

BJ
I think that is exactly what Playboy is saying, to get your wife excited, you need to drive an M5, to get your mistress aroused, drive an ATS, if you only need self satisfaction, by all means drive a 3 series
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  #684  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:28 PM
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Sitting behind a new Caddy XTS in traffic yesterday it occurred to me I have seen more new XTSs on the road than I have seen new ATSs, which is either zero or one. I remember seeing one parked on the street in Chicago, can't quite remember if I've seen one on the road, but I seem to have some recollection of seeing one. I think I've seen at least three XTSs on the road so far. Doesn't seem like a good sign to me. Caddy hasn't spent a dime on XTS advertising and they've spent the bank advertising the ATS.
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  #685  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Sitting behind a new Caddy XTS in traffic yesterday it occurred to me I have seen more new XTSs on the road than I have seen new ATSs, which is either zero or one. I remember seeing one parked on the street in Chicago, can't quite remember if I've seen one on the road, but I seem to have some recollection of seeing one. I think I've seen at least three XTSs on the road so far. Doesn't seem like a good sign to me. Caddy hasn't spent a dime on XTS advertising and they've spent the bank advertising the ATS.
Between NYC and Florida I have only seen (or perhaps only noticed) 3 or 4 F30s, but the sales numbers are impressive so obviously someone is buying them. I have not seen a single ATS.

CA
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  #686  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:48 PM
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Between NYC and Florida I have only seen (or perhaps only noticed) 3 or 4 F30s, but the sales numbers are impressive so obviously someone is buying them. I have not seen a single ATS.

CA
I was going to comment on something similar recently. In the last four months I have made a round trip drive from Chicago to Fort Worth and I'm on the first half of a second round trip. That's 3,000 miles on major interstate highways (mostly the old Route 66), through Illinois, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas. On each trip I have seen only a handful on E9x models, between 5 - 10. That's for a model that has been on the market for seven years. Despite what folks in affluent, major metropolitan areas may perceive, the reality is 3ers, and Bimmers, are relatively rare in the general automotive population. The fact of the matter is BMW has about 2.5% of the U.S. market share.


btw - the 3er was the 28th best selling model in the U.S. in November. The only European luxury model in the top 30. It sold 10,776 units, a 42.4% increase year over year increase; 87,887 ytd, up 6.4% year over year. The Merc C Class has sold 73,941 ytd, up 20.1% year over year. The Audi A4/A5 has sold 47,742 ytd. The ATS has sold 4,029 ytd. When did it officially go on sale?
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Last edited by tturedraider; 12-23-2012 at 10:26 PM.
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  #687  
Old 12-24-2012, 05:31 AM
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CTS production cut because of ATS cannibalizing sales?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/25/c...ll-cut-output/


Here's the ATS by month in US and Canada. Sales launch in October.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...gures.html?m=1
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Last edited by 3284me; 12-24-2012 at 05:38 AM.
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  #688  
Old 12-24-2012, 05:37 AM
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CTS production cut because of ATS cannibalizing sales?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/25/c...ll-cut-output/
Yea, the entire world saw this coming. They (GM) were so focused on the 3 series that
they forgot about the CTS.
An aggressive facelift could have done something.
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  #689  
Old 12-24-2012, 05:45 AM
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Considering one of the top ranking threads in the BMW 3 Series forum, both in replies and views, is about the Cadillac, Cadillac has already succeeded to some degree.
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  #690  
Old 12-24-2012, 06:24 AM
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Considering one of the top ranking threads in the BMW 3 Series forum, both in replies and views, is about the Cadillac, Cadillac has already succeeded to some degree.
90% of the posts in the thread mock the ATS, so by that standard Cadillac continues to succeed.

BJ
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  #691  
Old 12-24-2012, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
I was going to comment on something similar recently. In the last four months I have made a round trip drive from Chicago to Fort Worth and I'm on the first half of a second round trip. That's 3,000 miles on major interstate highways (mostly the old Route 66), through Illinois, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas. On each trip I have seen only a handful on E9x models, between 5 - 10. That's for a model that has been on the market for seven years. Despite what folks in affluent, major metropolitan areas may perceive, the reality is 3ers, and Bimmers, are relatively rare in the general automotive population. The fact of the matter is BMW has about 2.5% of the U.S. market share.


btw - the 3er was the 28th best selling model in the U.S. in November. The only European luxury model in the top 30. It sold 10,776 units, a 42.4% increase year over year increase; 87,887 ytd, up 6.4% year over year. The Merc C Class has sold 73,941 ytd, up 20.1% year over year. The Audi A4/A5 has sold 47,742 ytd. The ATS has sold 4,029 ytd. When did it officially go on sale?
When we travel between NYC and Palm Beach we travel by air so I don't know how many BMWs are on I 95. BMWs and Mercedes are both relatively common in both NYC and South Florida. I have seen very few F30s but that is probably because even though they are selling well they haven't been around very long so there are still not that many of them on the road compared to the E9x which sold well for years. I suspect that by early summer F30s will become a relatively common site in areas like the Northeast corridor and South Florida where BMWs are relatively common.
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  #692  
Old 12-24-2012, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 3284me View Post
CTS production cut because of ATS cannibalizing sales?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/25/c...ll-cut-output/


Here's the ATS by month in US and Canada. Sales launch in October.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...gures.html?m=1
There will be an all new CTS for 2014. More of a direct competitor to the 5 series.
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  #693  
Old 12-24-2012, 08:37 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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There will be an all new CTS for 2014. More of a direct competitor to the 5 series.
E90s are all over the road, BMW at one point was selling up to 17k a month if I recall.

I still think it is too early to claim ATS is cannibalizing CTS sales. I believe even if ATS did not exist, the CTS sales would have dropped, with the anticipated complete update next year.

GM needs to start offerings incentives to seriously move ATS. Every brand in this segment is offering significant incentives.

Last edited by dtc100; 12-24-2012 at 08:41 AM.
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  #694  
Old 12-24-2012, 08:44 AM
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Considering one of the top ranking threads in the BMW 3 Series forum, both in replies and views, is about the Cadillac, Cadillac has already succeeded to some degree.
Actually it is still at the bottom of the sales chart for its class. I have yet to see a single one on the road. Our dealer has tens of them,

A bit early to talk about market success.

IMO, it has no chance. Too pricey, feels too cramped. People just expects something else from Caddy.
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  #695  
Old 12-24-2012, 08:57 AM
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People just expects something else from Caddy.
Indeed!
Once you've established yourself in a particular way, it relatively stays that way for years.
People expect that plush, pillowy, floating on a cloud type of ride in a Caddy. All this sportiness
is nonsense in their eyes.
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  #696  
Old 12-24-2012, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Actually it is still at the bottom of the sales chart for its class. I have yet to see a single one on the road. Our dealer has tens of them,

A bit early to talk about market success.

IMO, it has no chance. Too pricey, feels too cramped. People just expects something else from Caddy.
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Originally Posted by boramkiv View Post
Indeed!
Once you've established yourself in a particular way, it relatively stays that way for years.
People expect that plush, pillowy, floating on a cloud type of ride in a Caddy. All this sportiness
is nonsense in their eyes.
It will be a shame if it doesn't do well after all the R&D and engineering Caddy put into it. It would be nice for Cadillac if it at least comes close to doing as well as the Infiniti G. But your point about Caddy's established identity might prevent that. Infiniti has a much more sporting identity than Cadillac and they haven't been able to seriously challenge BMW even though they re-committed themselves to that goal a number of years ago.
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  #697  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:03 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Actually it is still at the bottom of the sales chart for its class. I have yet to see a single one on the road. Our dealer has tens of them.
Not true, it had already exceeded Lexus IS sales. Of course that is not saying much. They need to be in the 5k or above range to be a serious contender.
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  #698  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:18 AM
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Not true, it had already exceeded Lexus IS sales. Of course that is not saying much. They need to be in the 5k or above range to be a serious contender.
Well it's about to get worse. Look at Edmunds long term test car already.
And seeing some steering wheels popped off Chevy Cruzes earlier this year
these probably aren't too far off.

http://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/ats/...ith-video.html
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  #699  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:28 AM
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In my opinion the ATS was a very good move for Cadillac and from what I have read it appears to be a very good car. Not best in class but nevertheless a very good car.

Will it change Cadillacs image overnight? Highly unlikely, that will take time but I think it was a very smart move on the part of Cadillac and GM. It took BMW a generation to establish itself in the luxury market and it was only recently that the large BMWs surpassed the large Cadillacs in sales. At least someone at Cadillac was smart enough to realize they were headed in the wrong direction and do something to change it.

CA
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  #700  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:52 AM
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In my opinion the ATS was a very good move for Cadillac and from what I have read it appears to be a very good car. Not best in class but nevertheless a very good car.

Will it change Cadillacs image overnight? Highly unlikely, that will take time but I think it was a very smart move on the part of Cadillac and GM. It took BMW a generation to establish itself in the luxury market and it was only recently that the large BMWs surpassed the large Cadillacs in sales. At least someone at Cadillac was smart enough to realize they were headed in the wrong direction and do something to change it.

CA
A better chassis is the right move, but to change its image, they need to really literally make some real changes to the look of the Caddies. ATS did some exterior changes but I don't think they are enough.

I don't mind they keep their design language, it sets the ATS apart from others in the segment, but they need to match the 3 series, provide more options and trims to attract European buyers. The traditional massive chrome finishing, both exterior and interior, can turn many European buyers off.
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