2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

In my opinion the ATS was a very good move for Cadillac and from what I have read it appears to be a very good car. Not best in class but nevertheless a very good car.

Will it change Cadillacs image overnight? Highly unlikely, that will take time but I think it was a very smart move on the part of Cadillac and GM. It took BMW a generation to establish itself in the luxury market and it was only recently that the large BMWs surpassed the large Cadillacs in sales. At least someone at Cadillac was smart enough to realize they were headed in the wrong direction and do something to change it.

CA

Originally Posted by dtc100

A better chassis is the right move, but to change its image, they need to really literally make some real changes to the look of the Caddies. ATS did some exterior changes but I don't think they are enough.

I don't mind they keep their design language, it sets the ATS apart from others in the segment, but they need to match the 3 series, provide more options and trims to attract European buyers. The traditional massive chrome finishing, both exterior and interior, can turn many European buyers off.

I agree, Cadillac has yet to achieve the feel that the European models it is attempting to compete with have.

To me the XTS sales demonstrate the enormous hill Cadillac has to climb with respect to its "natural" market. Despite virtually no advertising the XTS has sold roughly 2,500 each month in November, October, and September.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I agree, Cadillac has yet to achieve the feel that the European models it is attempting to compete with have.

To me the XTS sales demonstrate the enormous hill Cadillac has to climb with respect to its "natural" market. Despite virtually no advertising the XTS has sold roughly 2,500 each month in November, October, and September.

The XTS is the car the traditional Caddy buyer of the past 25 years expects. It's a great replacement for the DTS/Deville and the previous STS/Seville before the change to RWD.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

To me the XTS sales demonstrate the enormous hill Cadillac has to climb with respect to its "natural" market. Despite virtually no advertising the XTS has sold roughly 2,500 each month in November, October, and September.

This, I was unaware of. That is a real eye opener. It makes sense. I've only seen one XTS ad and that really wasn't about the car as much as it was new tech goods GM is offering. The vibrating seat, CUE. The ATS "should" be doing better with all those ads. Here in the Hampton Roads area I see one blue XTS on my commute from work almost daily. I have seen I think 3 or 4 total.
I have yet to see an ATS on the road even on the few trips I've taken to neighboring states.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

When we travel between NYC and Palm Beach we travel by air so I don't know how many BMWs are on I 95. BMWs and Mercedes are both relatively common in both NYC and South Florida. I have seen very few F30s but that is probably because even though they are selling well they haven't been around very long so there are still not that many of them on the road compared to the E9x which sold well for years. I suspect that by early summer F30s will become a relatively common site in areas like the Northeast corridor and South Florida where BMWs are relatively common.

Up until two weeks ago I had seen three F30's all either black or white. In the last two weeks I have seen six, including two Mineral Grey and today I believe I saw a Mojave, although it went by fast so I am not 100% sure. I think you are right that by the summer they will be a common sight.

It is too early to say about ATS sales. I think the next few monthly sales reports will give people a better idea.

Originally Posted by dtc100

It is too early to say about ATS sales. I think the next few monthly sales reports will give people a better idea.

I agree. It will take until at least the summer. January car sales are terrible. No one wants to car shop right after Christmas or in the dead of winter. And February sales aren't much better.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Despite what folks in affluent, major metropolitan areas may perceive, the reality is 3ers, and Bimmers, are relatively rare in the general automotive population. The fact of the matter is BMW has about 2.5% of the U.S. market share.

btw - the 3er was the 28th best selling model in the U.S. in November. The only European luxury model in the top 30. It sold 10,776 units, a 42.4% increase year over year increase; 87,887 ytd, up 6.4% year over year. The Merc C Class has sold 73,941 ytd, up 20.1% year over year. The Audi A4/A5 has sold 47,742 ytd. The ATS has sold 4,029 ytd. When did it officially go on sale?

Interesting sales stats for the US market. You should travel to Vancouver, where BMW has long enjoyed successful sales. I'm not sure of the exact % here, but I would guess BMW has at least 5% of the market; it is the most popular luxury car in Canada !

Vancouver's love affair for European cars goes back to the early 1950s, when in 1952, the Austin A40 outsold Chevrolet to become the No.1 seller ! As for the current popular sellers, the new 3er is doing very well, but I have yet to see an ATS on the road.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Not true, it had already exceeded Lexus IS sales. Of course that is not saying much. They need to be in the 5k or above range to be a serious contender.

Not at the absolute bottom, but at the bottom (low tier) nonetheless. IS is the oldest platform and the end of its cycle.

Originally Posted by boramkiv

Indeed!
Once you've established yourself in a particular way, it relatively stays that way for years.
People expect that plush, pillowy, floating on a cloud type of ride in a Caddy. All this sportiness
is nonsense in their eyes.

That's old fashioned thinking. The CTS has been out for over 10 years, has been a major success and is not your fathers floating Cadillac.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

That's old fashioned thinking. The CTS has been out for over 10 years, has been a major success and is not your fathers floating Cadillac.

Tell that to the fathers of the world then, because sales
do not reflect that. It's old fashion thinking, but its an "old fashion" brand.

Originally Posted by boramkiv

Tell that to the fathers of the world then, because sales
do not reflect that. It's old fashion thinking, but its an "old fashion" brand.

Well you are wrong. CTS sales are down this year as its the end of the current model. They sold 55,000 in 2011 and over 45k in 2010 and over 43,000 through November this year. So not down that much.

Sweet! I hope the ATS is that successful along with Gen III CTS!

Originally Posted by boramkiv

Sweet! I hope the ATS is that successful along with Gen III CTS!

I could care less.

We drive BMW's here. I'm sure Kia makes a swell car. Don't need to talk about that over here either.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

I could care less.

We drive BMW's here. I'm sure Kia makes a swell car. Don't need to talk about that over here either.

BJ

Seasons' Greetings BJ.

Originally Posted by boramkiv

Seasons' Greetings BJ.

Same to you. We got snow up here; white Christmas, not bad.

BJ

I used to have a SLS, and CTS, and coming from someone who actually loved those cars, I will say that they both together couldn't shine my 2013 335xi's shoes...so please everyone stop with the non-sense talk...

Originally Posted by DMonE621

I used to have a SLS, and CTS, and coming from someone who actually loved those cars, I will say that they both together couldn't shine my 2013 335xi's shoes...so please everyone stop with the non-sense talk...

Neither is. Direct competitor to the 3 series. The STS of course was much more luxury than sport and the CTS is closer in size to a 5 series. The ATS on the other hand is a direct competitor to the 3 series and is easily in the same room if not competing to sit in the same chair.

Every time someone posts in this thread a Cadillac marketeer gets a bonus.

Originally Posted by DMonE621

I used to have a SLS, and CTS, and coming from someone who actually loved those cars, I will say that they both together couldn't shine my 2013 335xi's shoes...so please everyone stop with the non-sense talk...

Have you driven an ATS yet? Curious what your take would be vis a vis the 335...

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

That's old fashioned thinking. The CTS has been out for over 10 years, has been a major success and is not your fathers floating Cadillac.

They need to change their old fashioned styling then.

Originally Posted by MMME30W

Have you driven an ATS yet? Curious what your take would be vis a vis the 335...

We had a driving event not too long ago, and I had a chance to get some seat time in an ATS. You can feel that. The car has sporty aspirations, but I can't say it's got the poise. Gearbox is very sloppy, and body roll is felt a little in the corners.

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

They need to change their old fashioned styling then.

I don't find the Cadillac style old fashioned. Certainly BMW's current style is far from avant garde.

http://www.autonet.ca/auto-news/tag/...ithm-liftfoot/

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

I don't find the Cadillac style old fashioned. Certainly BMW's current style is far from avant garde.

Need more in your faceness.

Something is wrong with the mobile app, so again from the above link:

"When driven in 'Sport' suspension mode, the ATS uses PAL to determine the vehicle