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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 12-10-2013, 10:21 AM
BradSCantor BradSCantor is offline
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A question for the lawyers...

OK... So I ordered a 2014 328i through my local BMW shop with the help of my CA. At the time of the order, I signed the contract and put down a very small payment. Seven weeks have passed and the car is now at the dealership. The issue is that I have just recently moved back to Pennsylvania and do not yet have a PA drivers license. There is a law in PA that you must have an instate license to purchase a car. My initial thought was, "no big deal, ill go to PennDOT and have them print me a new one out"... NOPE. Because I only have a non-drivers ID from Florida, I need to go through the whole application process. I am told this will take about one month.
So now we have arrived at my dilemma. My brother has offered to put the car in his name for the next month or so, but I would rather not have to pay for insurance for a month on a car that is not being used. Is there anything in the contract that dictates when I have to bring the car home? Can I just let it sit at the dealers for the next month without fearing that they are gonna sell it out from under me? Th other piece of this puzzle is that I dont want to lose any of the incentives that are being offered. At this point I have a $1500 one from USAA and the $1250 holiday one from BMW...
I would love to hear all your thoughts on this. No law degree required...
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2013, 11:02 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Do you not have a driver's license at all? I'm not a lawyer, but it strikes me as exceedingly unlikely PA has a law requiring an in-state license to purchase a car from a PA dealer. This would effectively prohibit any dealer in PA from selling a car to a non-PA resident, eliminating interstate commerce in this area.

If I were you I wouldn't wait for an answer here. I'd start digging, doing my own research and I'd find myself a local PA lawyer to call and verify such a law exists.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 12-10-2013 at 11:03 AM.
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  #3  
Old 12-10-2013, 11:11 AM
BradSCantor BradSCantor is offline
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I have already done all of those things. If you are a resident of PA, you need an instate license to purchase a car.

Last edited by BradSCantor; 12-10-2013 at 11:12 AM.
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  #4  
Old 12-10-2013, 11:50 AM
Dippydo Dippydo is offline
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That's a silly law. I was able to buy mine with a Michigan license in Minnesota.
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2013, 11:55 AM
BradSCantor BradSCantor is offline
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Yeah, Im pretty sure none of this would be happening if I just went over the bridge and purchased the car in New Jersey...
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  #6  
Old 12-10-2013, 12:23 PM
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jjcruiser jjcruiser is offline
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I'm a lawyer but what you're describing is probably more of a negotiation than legal question. You can certainly post the contract (although you also likely can read it yourself) and we could look at it, but let's say the contract says nothing about when you have to pick it up or these vagaries of PA licensing law, which seems likely. The issue will be what is your CA willing to do for you. Have you explained the situation to them yet?

You yourself say that you already saved a bunch of money and don't want to lose the incentives. What's one month of insurance? $200? That seems like a pretty small amount to pay to have a dealer effectively store your car for you for a month.

Good luck.
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  #7  
Old 12-10-2013, 12:29 PM
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furby076 furby076 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradSCantor View Post
I have already done all of those things. If you are a resident of PA, you need an instate license to purchase a car.
You are correct, if you are an instate resident of PA you need a PA license. If you just moved here you have 30 days to transfer your drivers license from your previous residence and in that case you can buy the vehicle from that residence.

The thing is, you have no license at all. I am surprised they allowed you to buy the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dippydo View Post
That's a silly law. I was able to buy mine with a Michigan license in Minnesota.
It's not a silly law, actually. If you are an in-state resident, by law you MUST have a PA drivers license. To qualify as instate you must live here for 6 months +1 day. Otherwise you are a resident of the other place where you live 6 months +1 day. If there is not other place (let's say you live 3 months in FL, and 3 months in NY - then PA is your home residence.

Why is this important? Taxes. You pay taxes based on your home address. So if your drivers license is from FL, and you are an FL resident you pay FL taxes. If you are a PA resident you pay PA taxes. Obviously this can be the difference of a lot of money since not all states/cities charge the same taxes

The OP now lives in PA. He has no license. He may not be able to buy the car.

@OP - You should look to get your license quickly. Getting a permit is not hard. Just go take the test. If you can't buy the car then you should get all of your money back (yes it is refundable deposit). I'm sure the dealer would be willing to work with you to help you out so they don't lose your sale
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  #8  
Old 12-10-2013, 12:30 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradSCantor View Post
I have already done all of those things. If you are a resident of PA, you need an instate license to purchase a car.
Trying to save one month of insurance costs - seriously?
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  #9  
Old 12-10-2013, 12:32 PM
Bimmermeupscoty Bimmermeupscoty is offline
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It appears that you can also use a valid "Pennslyvania Photo Identification Card," which may not take as long to get as a driver's license. See this link.

Also, see this application form: Application
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  #10  
Old 12-10-2013, 12:50 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradSCantor View Post
I have already done all of those things. If you are a resident of PA, you need an instate license to purchase a car.
I guess that is slightly less nonsensical. Assuming you have a license, why so long to get a PA license? Illinois is about as screwed up as a state can get, but I got my license the same day I applied and surrendered my Texas license. That was a very sad day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmermeupscoty View Post
It appears that you can also use a valid "Pennslyvania Photo Identification Card," which may not take as long to get as a driver's license. See this link.

Also, see this application form: Application
Hopefully this will help!
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  #11  
Old 12-10-2013, 12:55 PM
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chiefneil chiefneil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradSCantor View Post
I only have a non-drivers ID from Florida
I'm confused regarding how you planned to drive your new BMW without a valid driver's license?
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  #12  
Old 12-10-2013, 01:03 PM
BradSCantor BradSCantor is offline
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A question for the lawyers...

I used to have a PA license so I thought getting it reinstated would not take anytime at all. I was planning to get it tomorrow and then go pick up the car. I think that if my FL ID had been a license this would have been how it went. But getting the non drivers FL ID ( which I got for tax reasons while I was living in Miami without a car) is messing everything up. I will look into this non drivers ID possibility tho. While we are talking about all this, do any of you know if there is a way to expedite the process of getting the title from the state? Thank you all for your feedback. It really is helpful


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  #13  
Old 12-10-2013, 01:07 PM
Dippydo Dippydo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefneil View Post
I'm confused regarding how you planned to drive your new BMW without a valid driver's license?

I guess this is really the bigger question.


For getting your license changed over...Meh...I have moved around a lot over the years and always waited until my license was due to expire before getting the state I lived in at the time. Hell I had Minnesota plates for 6 months on the BMW before I changed my drivers license over and only did so because it expired in October.
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  #14  
Old 12-10-2013, 01:22 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
I guess that is slightly less nonsensical. Assuming you have a license, why so long to get a PA license? Illinois is about as screwed up as a state can get, but I got my license the same day I applied and surrendered my Texas license. That was a very sad day.
How long ago was that? Rules are always changing because of illegal immigration and the like. So now many places want to run background checks before they issue a license.
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  #15  
Old 12-10-2013, 02:35 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
How long ago was that? Rules are always changing because of illegal immigration and the like. So now many places want to run background checks before they issue a license.
Just a little over a year ago. Just before the election. I'm one of the ten people in Chicago who did not vote for Obama. I moved from a red state where my vote didn't really affect the overall outcome to a blue state where my vote doesn't affect the overall outcome.
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  #16  
Old 12-10-2013, 02:50 PM
Lambo911 Lambo911 is offline
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Big question is, why do you need a specific license for a State ! Why doesn't the US get its act together and have a standardised license for all States... or does that put a load of pen pushers out of a job ?
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  #17  
Old 12-10-2013, 02:53 PM
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SilverX3 SilverX3 is offline
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Dumb laws

It's one country

why can one state licence be applied to all states

Like Australia.... who care which state licence you carry
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  #18  
Old 12-10-2013, 03:11 PM
BradSCantor BradSCantor is offline
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Quote:
Dumb laws

It's one country

why can one state licence be applied to all states

Like Australia.... who care which state licence you carry
Amen!!! Trust me, I would have much rather just kept my PA license when I lived in Florida. And yes, I realize I should have dealt with this months ago but I had no idea it was a law in PA.
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:32 PM
Tedj101 Tedj101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Trying to save one month of insurance costs - seriously?
I think his problem is bigger than that. If his brother buys the car, he pays the sales tax. If he then "sells" it to him (which is what the State of Pennsylvania - oops Commonwealth will look at that transaction as) he pays sales tax again. While insurance is a minor thing, sales tax is not.

Just a thought - and I am not offering this as legal advice I am not a Pennsylvania lawyer...

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Old 12-10-2013, 03:32 PM
Tedj101 Tedj101 is offline
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Originally Posted by SilverX3 View Post
Dumb laws

It's one country

why can one state licence be applied to all states

Like Australia.... who care which state licence you carry
Revenue!

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  #21  
Old 12-10-2013, 03:43 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverX3 View Post
Dumb laws

It's one country

why can one state licence be applied to all states

Like Australia.... who care which state licence you carry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambo911 View Post
Big question is, why do you need a specific license for a State ! Why doesn't the US get its act together and have a standardised license for all States... or does that put a load of pen pushers out of a job ?
I realize this was mostly a rhetorical question, but since you asked....It's all YOUR fault!

Due to our founders' abhorrence for living under a royal tyranny they wanted to place limits on the power of a central government. They wanted very much to keep government as local as possible. The result is that the U.S. is actually a federation of states and our constitution reserves all power to the states that is not specifically granted by the constitution to the federal government. At least that's how it's supposed to be.

I like this quote from Mark Twain that's been going around lately - "Politicians and Diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason." I can tell you it's the truth. Here in Illinois they don't do it and the legislature is definitely full of sh*t and stinks to high heaven!!
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Keep Right, Except to Pass

Than & Then usage - "It was hotter than hades (comparison). Then later on (time) it got cool."

2006 330i Sonora w/ ActiveAutoWerke flash tune - I like it!
2004 330i ZHP Imola/NB - missed
2000 328i TiAg - gone but not forgotten

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Last edited by tturedraider; 12-10-2013 at 03:45 PM.
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  #22  
Old 12-10-2013, 03:50 PM
BradSCantor BradSCantor is offline
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There will not be any sales tax on the title transfer. But, it does still start to add up. Being able to leave the car at the dealer would end up saving me about $500 bucks I think. While this is not a fortune, it also isnt nothing.
The other big issue that I left off the initial post is that I have no way of ensuring that my brother gives me the car back... He drives a FX35 from like 2001, one ride in my new 328i and he might just be hooked
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  #23  
Old 12-10-2013, 03:53 PM
HokieXDriver HokieXDriver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambo911 View Post
Big question is, why do you need a specific license for a State ! Why doesn't the US get its act together and have a standardised license for all States... or does that put a load of pen pushers out of a job ?
I dunno, why doesn't the UK get its act together and drive on the right side of the road like the rest of Europe?

Getting act together != doing what another country thinks you should do, at least not in a democracy.

Last edited by HokieXDriver; 12-10-2013 at 03:54 PM.
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  #24  
Old 12-10-2013, 03:55 PM
jayb328i jayb328i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambo911 View Post
Big question is, why do you need a specific license for a State ! Why doesn't the US get its act together and have a standardised license for all States... or does that put a load of pen pushers out of a job ?
Yep--lets have the clouds in Washington make laws on auto usage in States, qualifications, driving tests, etc. We can call it ObamaDrive.
Nothing like giving MORE power, more authority to those great ones in DC
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  #25  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:09 PM
MotoWPK MotoWPK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradSCantor View Post
I have already done all of those things. If you are a resident of PA, you need an instate license to purchase a car.
Something about this supposed law doesn't sound right. Purchasing a vehicle and driving it are two different things. You need a driver's license for the latter, but a state requiring a license to purchase a vehicle sounds not only unreasonable, but constitutionally questionable.

There are a number of reasons why one may not have a driver's license, a physical limitation, for example. So according to this PA law, such a person could not purchase a car for which they intend to hire a driver for their transport?
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