Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E46 (1999 - 2006)

E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 01-16-2012, 04:52 PM
Scott ZHP's Avatar
Scott ZHP Scott ZHP is online now
We want the Lion!
Location: PA, USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 7,542
Mein Auto: 03 ZHP, 01 X5, 73 MGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by smolck View Post

I wonder if my local salvage would let me test on one and then bolt it to a festers car. I don't want to mess with my ZHP like that so if I can pull it off, who wants to have the head swap done?
You don't even need to run it, all you need is a flow bench.

I'm assembling the engine for my Triumph, all 1.5 liters of it. The head was done by ACME Speedshop; they specialize in building race engines for MG and Triumphs. Mild port/polish, stellite valves, Sunnen 3-angle valve cut on hardened seats. The cam was ground from a chilled iron billet blank; factory TR-5 race grind with 1500-6500 rpm sweet spot. 9.5:1 compression, lightened rods, indexed crank, chromoly pushrods, Tri-Y header, dual HS-4 carbs. All APR hardware.

From the factory it had a whopping 56 hp. My goal is to double that when it hits the dyno.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
JUST...LOOK...UNDER...THE...CAR....for Chrissakes....it`s like checking to see if a dog is male or female....
Quote:
Originally Posted by smolck View Post
A bimmer with forced induction should have a proper manual gearbox. Anything less is like french kissing your sister.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-16-2012, 05:05 PM
djstrachan's Avatar
djstrachan djstrachan is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: bc canada
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,824
Mein Auto: 2004 325i ZSP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott ZHP View Post

From the factory it had a whopping 56 hp. My goal is to double that when it hits the dyno.


Be careful when you take that beast out...woudn't want you to hurt yourself!

__________________


"It is little use listening to other people as they will either be agreeing with you or saying stupid stuff" - Dogbert

I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world sh!ts on everybody. Pretending it ain't sh!t makes you an idiot, not an optimist.

2004 325i - Sport package - 5MT- clears - CDV mod - M3 gauge faces w/silver gauge rings & red needles - SS exhaust tips - strut tower brace - Hotchkis anti-sway bars -50% tint - shadow grills - roof spoiler - silver CF trim
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-16-2012, 05:07 PM
smolck's Avatar
smolck smolck is online now
ROLL TIDE!
Location: Birmingham, AL
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,348
Mein Auto: 2004 ZHP Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott ZHP View Post
You don't even need to run it, all you need is a flow bench.

I'm assembling the engine for my Triumph, all 1.5 liters of it. The head was done by ACME Speedshop; they specialize in building race engines for MG and Triumphs. Mild port/polish, stellite valves, Sunnen 3-angle valve cut on hardened seats. The cam was ground from a chilled iron billet blank; factory TR-5 race grind with 1500-6500 rpm sweet spot. 9.5:1 compression, lightened rods, indexed crank, chromoly pushrods, Tri-Y header, dual HS-4 carbs. All APR hardware.

From the factory it had a whopping 56 hp. My goal is to double that when it hits the dyno.
That's an a$$load of money for 100hp.
__________________

Check out my YouTube Channel for DIY's and other fun stuff HERE
Check out my BMWBLOG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
now, go burn your Man Card, and buy yourself a Camry....
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-16-2012, 05:51 PM
Fast Bob's Avatar
Fast Bob Fast Bob is offline
Keeping it surreal
Location: Here, there, everywhere....
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,495
Mein Auto: 2004 330Ci ZHP 3 pedals
Quote:
Originally Posted by smolck View Post
That's an a$$load of money for 100hp.
He`ll have bragging rights to the meanest Triumph around....
__________________
The road goes ever onward....
(R.I.P. Jever)

*Please support the Wounded Warrior Project*

When faced with choosing between two evils, always go with the one you`ve never tried before....
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-16-2012, 06:29 PM
smolck's Avatar
smolck smolck is online now
ROLL TIDE!
Location: Birmingham, AL
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,348
Mein Auto: 2004 ZHP Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
He`ll have bragging rights to the meanest Triumph around....
It will also be a little faster than others because of the lighter wallet he'll be carrying.
__________________

Check out my YouTube Channel for DIY's and other fun stuff HERE
Check out my BMWBLOG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
now, go burn your Man Card, and buy yourself a Camry....
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-16-2012, 06:55 PM
ventsyv ventsyv is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,189
Mein Auto: 03 BMW 330ci
Don't think the CAI will give you any gain - most of those are actually HAI - because they don't pull air from the outside, but from under the hood.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-16-2012, 07:00 PM
Hermes's Avatar
Hermes Hermes is offline
ZHP Caporegime
Location: Wal die Scheide (SD)
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 514
Mein Auto: ist Imolarot
Quote:
Originally Posted by ventsyv View Post
Don't think the CAI will give you any gain - most of those are actually HAI - because they don't pull air from the outside, but from under the hood.
Depends on which one you buy. I know people with the BMW Performance one who have dyno results of 7 hp gained from intake alone. The Dinan long tube true CAI is even more, around 15 IIRC. This is at the flywheel, not rear wheels
__________________


2005 330Ci (ZHP) = Daily Driver 1969 2002 = Project Car
BMW Car Club of America # 427612


Last edited by Hermes; 01-16-2012 at 07:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-16-2012, 07:07 PM
Fast Bob's Avatar
Fast Bob Fast Bob is offline
Keeping it surreal
Location: Here, there, everywhere....
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,495
Mein Auto: 2004 330Ci ZHP 3 pedals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Depends on which one you buy. I know people with the BMW Performance one who have dyno results of 7 hp gained from intake alone. The Dinan long tube true CAI is even more, around 15 IIRC. This is at the flywheel, not rear wheels
I`ve never heard of a CAI giving *anywhere near* that kind of improvement (verified), and I`ve been around a long time....
__________________
The road goes ever onward....
(R.I.P. Jever)

*Please support the Wounded Warrior Project*

When faced with choosing between two evils, always go with the one you`ve never tried before....
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-16-2012, 07:12 PM
Hermes's Avatar
Hermes Hermes is offline
ZHP Caporegime
Location: Wal die Scheide (SD)
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 514
Mein Auto: ist Imolarot
I'll see if I can find the dyno results. I read it a long time ago and don't even remember what forum I saw if on anymore. All I can say to that is the Performance intake I have definitely breathes better than my stock airbox ever did, my butt dyno says maybe 5whp

Either way, I totally agree that intake does not do much
__________________


2005 330Ci (ZHP) = Daily Driver 1969 2002 = Project Car
BMW Car Club of America # 427612


Last edited by Hermes; 01-16-2012 at 07:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-16-2012, 08:05 PM
RSPDiver's Avatar
RSPDiver RSPDiver is offline
Ich bin ein Bimmerer
Location: SC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,241
Mein Auto: 04 ZHP/4
Quote:
Originally Posted by smolck View Post
I wonder if my local salvage would let me test on one and then bolt it to a festers car. I don't want to mess with my ZHP like that so if I can pull it off, who wants to have the head swap done?
You are tempting the heck out of me here. And we could do some comparative ZHP runs for baseline, with the M Power app on my phone for some data. Hmmm...
__________________
#232
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-16-2012, 09:38 PM
Jashley73's Avatar
Jashley73 Jashley73 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Ky.
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 298
Mein Auto: 08' 528i, 89 325i
Before going overboard with porting and polishing, do some more research and take baby steps, documenting the gains at each progressive increase in porting. In the case of the later M20 B25 (885?) heads, there is is little appreciable difference from port/polish work. At least in the 2V heads, BMW pretty much found all they could in the stock heads.

Last edited by Jashley73; 01-16-2012 at 09:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-17-2012, 01:58 AM
Hermes's Avatar
Hermes Hermes is offline
ZHP Caporegime
Location: Wal die Scheide (SD)
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 514
Mein Auto: ist Imolarot
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSPDiver View Post
You are tempting the heck out of me here. And we could do some comparative ZHP runs for baseline, with the M Power app on my phone for some data. Hmmm...
Are you talking about the M Meter? That app sucks... Well I haven't tried it since the newest update but I can't imagine it being much better. It told me once that my 0-60 was 15 seconds, WTF?
__________________


2005 330Ci (ZHP) = Daily Driver 1969 2002 = Project Car
BMW Car Club of America # 427612

Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-17-2012, 05:51 AM
SPDSKTR SPDSKTR is offline
I'm a DlCK! So what?
Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,028
Mein Auto: E30 with an S52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Are you talking about the M Meter? That app sucks... Well I haven't tried it since the newest update but I can't imagine it being much better. It told me once that my 0-60 was 15 seconds, WTF?


I'd like to do a port and polishing just because. I told myself I was done modding my car, but I have that itch...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Bimmer
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-17-2012, 06:25 AM
Scott ZHP's Avatar
Scott ZHP Scott ZHP is online now
We want the Lion!
Location: PA, USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 7,542
Mein Auto: 03 ZHP, 01 X5, 73 MGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by smolck View Post
It will also be a little faster than others because of the lighter wallet he'll be carrying.
Lighter wallet? Well compared to BMW parts, British stuff is dirt cheap. I can buy a set of 8 valves for what a single BMW intake costs. Nitrided rocker shaft? $24. I have a friend who is a machinist, so I get a break there.

Remember, the whole car might weigh 1500lbs by the time I'm done with it; most of it only a foot off the ground. Lighter bumpers, de-smogged, aluminum bits here and there instead of cast iron, lightweight battery.

That's a better power to weight ratio than a 325 E46.
( 13.6 vs. 18).
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
JUST...LOOK...UNDER...THE...CAR....for Chrissakes....it`s like checking to see if a dog is male or female....
Quote:
Originally Posted by smolck View Post
A bimmer with forced induction should have a proper manual gearbox. Anything less is like french kissing your sister.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-18-2012, 05:50 AM
SPDSKTR SPDSKTR is offline
I'm a DlCK! So what?
Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,028
Mein Auto: E30 with an S52
I'm going to do a dyno run after I get the Active Autowerke software. I don't think I'll going to get pulleys between now and then, but it's a possibility. I'll be sure to post results when all is said and done.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Bimmer
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:20 AM
smolck's Avatar
smolck smolck is online now
ROLL TIDE!
Location: Birmingham, AL
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,348
Mein Auto: 2004 ZHP Sedan
Scott ZHP has pulleys on his car, perhaps he could give us his impressions again.
__________________

Check out my YouTube Channel for DIY's and other fun stuff HERE
Check out my BMWBLOG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
now, go burn your Man Card, and buy yourself a Camry....
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:42 AM
Hermes's Avatar
Hermes Hermes is offline
ZHP Caporegime
Location: Wal die Scheide (SD)
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 514
Mein Auto: ist Imolarot
Quote:
Originally Posted by ventsyv View Post
Don't think the CAI will give you any gain - most of those are actually HAI - because they don't pull air from the outside, but from under the hood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Depends on which one you buy. I know people with the BMW Performance one who have dyno results of 7 hp gained from intake alone. The Dinan long tube true CAI is even more, around 15 IIRC. This is at the flywheel, not rear wheels
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
I`ve never heard of a CAI giving *anywhere near* that kind of improvement (verified), and I`ve been around a long time....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
I'll see if I can find the dyno results. I read it a long time ago and don't even remember what forum I saw if on anymore. All I can say to that is the Performance intake I have definitely breathes better than my stock airbox ever did, my butt dyno says maybe 5whp

Either way, I totally agree that intake does not do much
found an example: 6.5 hp on a 2003 330i (ZHP)

Before - 195.5 @ 6000 RPM
After - 202.0 @ 6000 RPM


Source: http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=507315


p/n 13720429613
__________________


2005 330Ci (ZHP) = Daily Driver 1969 2002 = Project Car
BMW Car Club of America # 427612


Last edited by Hermes; 01-18-2012 at 11:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:55 AM
RSPDiver's Avatar
RSPDiver RSPDiver is offline
Ich bin ein Bimmerer
Location: SC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,241
Mein Auto: 04 ZHP/4
Quote:
Originally Posted by smolck View Post
Scott ZHP has pulleys on his car, perhaps he could give us his impressions again.
I have either Rogue or UUC pullies on my car (can't recall which). I didn't pay full retail for them, and wouldn't tell you they are worth full retail. They do seem to help the engine rev a bit more freely in the upper ranges, and perhaps go toward a bit of efficiency. Big power gain? Nah, but a tiny bit perceptible in loss of parasitic drag from the accessories running beyond what's needed speed by the time you're past 3k RPM.

Find them used (in good condition) if you wish to get them, IMO. Like the intake, they don't offer enough gain for MSRP. I think I payed $275 total for my pulleys and aFe intake back in '04/'05 because they were barely used. The aFe uses the stock snorkel that gets air from in front of the radiator (like stock) as well as air flushing around behind the headlight. So, semi-CAI.
__________________
#232

Last edited by RSPDiver; 01-18-2012 at 12:17 PM. Reason: pwned by no spell check
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 01-18-2012, 10:25 AM
Scott ZHP's Avatar
Scott ZHP Scott ZHP is online now
We want the Lion!
Location: PA, USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 7,542
Mein Auto: 03 ZHP, 01 X5, 73 MGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by smolck View Post
Scott ZHP has pulleys on his car, perhaps he could give us his impressions again.
Save your money.

Although they're not bakelite and they'll never break. I suppose that's a benefit.

As far as dyno charts go, it's not uncommon to see 5bhp variability on back to back dyno runs with no changes at all. I'd think you'd need half a dozen baseline runs, then half a dozen more after a mod to really measure a net change.

And bhp figures are meaningless unless you're after top speed. A bump in the torque curve is what everyone is after.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
JUST...LOOK...UNDER...THE...CAR....for Chrissakes....it`s like checking to see if a dog is male or female....
Quote:
Originally Posted by smolck View Post
A bimmer with forced induction should have a proper manual gearbox. Anything less is like french kissing your sister.

Last edited by Scott ZHP; 01-18-2012 at 10:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-18-2012, 11:25 AM
smolck's Avatar
smolck smolck is online now
ROLL TIDE!
Location: Birmingham, AL
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,348
Mein Auto: 2004 ZHP Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott ZHP View Post
A bump in the torque curve is what everyone is after.
I like how the Top Gear guys (the real ones from England not the new American idiots) say "torques".

"this car has 40 more torques than that one", funny.
__________________

Check out my YouTube Channel for DIY's and other fun stuff HERE
Check out my BMWBLOG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
now, go burn your Man Card, and buy yourself a Camry....
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 01-18-2012, 11:47 AM
SPDSKTR SPDSKTR is offline
I'm a DlCK! So what?
Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,028
Mein Auto: E30 with an S52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott ZHP View Post
Save your money.

Although they're not bakelite and they'll never break. I suppose that's a benefit.

As far as dyno charts go, it's not uncommon to see 5bhp variability on back to back dyno runs with no changes at all. I'd think you'd need half a dozen baseline runs, then half a dozen more after a mod to really measure a net change.

And bhp figures are meaningless unless you're after top speed. A bump in the torque curve is what everyone is after.
"Torque moves the car while horsepower sells it."

Sent from the Bamavarian Nexus.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-18-2012, 11:56 AM
MalibuMafiaV's Avatar
MalibuMafiaV MalibuMafiaV is offline
L4P
Location: Malibu, CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,522
Send a message via AIM to MalibuMafiaV
Mein Auto: E60 M5 & Stage 3 Audi S4
SPD. I recommend just saving all your money and don't waste it on more mods. Save it for some FI.
__________________
http://www.luxury4play.com
BMW 2006 M5 - REALLY LOUD
Audi S4 2000 Stage 3 - Dat turbo spool
BMW 2000 3-series - Supercharged Because race car SOLD
Maserati 2004 M128 GT - HREs/tint/straight piped SOLD
BMW 2006 M3 - stock - SOLD
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 01-18-2012, 12:37 PM
smolck's Avatar
smolck smolck is online now
ROLL TIDE!
Location: Birmingham, AL
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,348
Mein Auto: 2004 ZHP Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalibuMafiaV View Post
SPD. I recommend just saving all your money and don't waste it on more mods. Save it for some FI.
Absolutely agree. It is the only way to get REAL power out of these machines. However, methinks my ZHP is plenty fast in stock trim. I was putting it through some twisty's really hard today and I can tell you if I really wanted to, I could get myself into some pretty bad spots with it's current power level. Learn to use what you have, save the drag racing for the Ford and Chevy guys.
__________________

Check out my YouTube Channel for DIY's and other fun stuff HERE
Check out my BMWBLOG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
now, go burn your Man Card, and buy yourself a Camry....
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 01-18-2012, 12:47 PM
Fast Bob's Avatar
Fast Bob Fast Bob is offline
Keeping it surreal
Location: Here, there, everywhere....
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,495
Mein Auto: 2004 330Ci ZHP 3 pedals
Quote:
Originally Posted by smolck View Post
Absolutely agree. It is the only way to get REAL power out of these machines. However, methinks my ZHP is plenty fast in stock trim. I was putting it through some twisty's really hard today and I can tell you if I really wanted to, I could get myself into some pretty bad spots with it's current power level. Learn to use what you have, save the drag racing for the Ford and Chevy guys.
Quite true....to me, it`s hilarious to hear the uninitiated say "Oh, these cars are SLOW !"....when in fact, a stock ZHP with a capable driver can post zero-to-sixty and 1/4-mile times that are knocking right on the door of muscle-car times.....there`s *nothing* slow about that, and nothing to be ashamed of....
IMHO, the most important part of the equation is to become a better driver....
__________________
The road goes ever onward....
(R.I.P. Jever)

*Please support the Wounded Warrior Project*

When faced with choosing between two evils, always go with the one you`ve never tried before....
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 01-18-2012, 12:56 PM
smolck's Avatar
smolck smolck is online now
ROLL TIDE!
Location: Birmingham, AL
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,348
Mein Auto: 2004 ZHP Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
Quite true....to me, it`s hilarious to hear the uninitiated say "Oh, these cars are SLOW !"....when in fact, a stock ZHP with a capable driver can post zero-to-sixty and 1/4-mile times that are knocking right on the door of muscle-car times.....there`s *nothing* slow about that, and nothing to be ashamed of....
IMHO, the most important part of the equation is to become a better driver....
I can 0-60 pretty good, but I am no where near as good a "driver" as guys like you, JVR826, KrisL and others. I don't mind telling you, I came out of a few corners today and though "damn, I almost lost it on that one!" and I wasn't driving near as hard as it could have.
__________________

Check out my YouTube Channel for DIY's and other fun stuff HERE
Check out my BMWBLOG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
now, go burn your Man Card, and buy yourself a Camry....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E46 (1999 - 2006)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms