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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > M Series > F80/F82/F83 M3 and M4 (2015 - Current)

F80/F82/F83 M3 and M4 (2015 - Current)
F80 BMW M3 sedan, F82 BMW M4 coupe and F83 M4 convertible forum. This 5th generation M3 and all new M4 features a 3.0 liter twin turbo engine (engine code S55) 425hp and 406lbs of torque! Heavy use of light weight materials makes this generation lighter and faster then the outgoing E9x M3.

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  #1  
Old 01-20-2012, 01:52 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Exclamation Confirmed:F80 Tri-turbo inline 6

GOOD NEWS
At least, if M is abandoning it's roots engine wise, they are gonna come up with something REALLY special
A well known & very large dealership...that have long standing relationship with the senior sales & service guys as well as upper management...a group just came back from BMW in Germany & the trade shows...
...and it is definite, confirmed that the F8x M3 will be a Tri-Turbo inline 6
Stock 450 HP and with the "Performance Pak" option (much like the AMG one)...485 HP
They said the "spy" photos are meaningless at this point, and do NOT reflect the design the F8x will end up as. Right now is is camouflaged and made to look much like a stock 3 series...
...but expect it to change 3 or 4 times before launch!
Can very well end up with another redesign of hood with vents & Power Dome
Wider body & signature quad pipes with diffuser.

Last edited by 16n69; 01-20-2012 at 02:02 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2012, 02:00 PM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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im calling bull ****, you were wrong about msport power increase and your probably wrong about this too
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2012, 02:04 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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im calling bull ****, you were wrong about msport power increase and your probably wrong about this too
Not wrong about M-Sport...guess again sonny
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  #4  
Old 01-21-2012, 11:42 AM
bimmerbabe69 bimmerbabe69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
GOOD NEWS
At least, if M is abandoning it's roots engine wise, they are gonna come up with something REALLY special
A well known & very large dealership...that have long standing relationship with the senior sales & service guys as well as upper management...a group just came back from BMW in Germany & the trade shows...
...and it is definite, confirmed that the F8x M3 will be a Tri-Turbo inline 6
Stock 450 HP and with the "Performance Pak" option (much like the AMG one)...485 HP
They said the "spy" photos are meaningless at this point, and do NOT reflect the design the F8x will end up as. Right now is is camouflaged and made to look much like a stock 3 series...
...but expect it to change 3 or 4 times before launch!
Can very well end up with another redesign of hood with vents & Power Dome
Wider body & signature quad pipes with diffuser.
Wow, exciting...my cousin works for BMW in Germany and I heard the same thing.
Good to have it further confirmed, I will wait and order it when available.
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  #5  
Old 01-21-2012, 01:52 PM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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The power increase with the performance package is news to me, in the pass all they did was increase the speed limiter.
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  #6  
Old 01-21-2012, 02:09 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
The power increase with the performance package is news to me, in the pass all they did was increase the speed limiter.
Nothing new for BMW, SOP...will happen, I for one will wait for it
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  #7  
Old 01-21-2012, 02:15 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Too complicated with a tri turbo, not to mention costs of troubleshooting such a new setup. I rather BMW put in a twin turbo V8 instead.
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  #8  
Old 01-21-2012, 03:11 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Too complicated with a tri turbo, not to mention costs of troubleshooting such a new setup. I rather BMW put in a twin turbo V8 instead.
+1, I am with you...let's hope someone comes to their senses before launch, and restores or tweaks the S65 and if it MUST be FI...what you said
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  #9  
Old 01-21-2012, 03:13 PM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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How about we get a legit source confirm this first...
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:34 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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How about we get a legit source confirm this first...
Yeah...and somebody who can express it clearly.
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  #11  
Old 01-21-2012, 06:16 PM
calmwinds calmwinds is offline
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why go for a v8 if an inline 6 does the job? besides aren't the GTR and 911 turbo, 6's? And isn't bmw all about inline 6's anyway? I'm sure MPG for this F8X is going to be so good (maybe 30 mpg?) but much faster than current m3 lolz
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  #12  
Old 01-21-2012, 06:48 PM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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Why on earth would you want a 3rd turbo? You are already getting instant-on spool and delivery at 1400 rpms that can stay on to the high RPMs.

And remember, turbos are about exhaust volume and they don't share exhaust. So now, you're down to 2 cylinders per turbo. In order for that amount of exhaust (in an inline 6 of 3.0 to 3.2 liters) to be worth something, you need a small turbo - not a big turbo.

So, now you're limited to a small turbo by it's design, but you've already got instant spool in today's twin turbo inline sixes, so you gain nothing in turns of low-end torque or power.
You've just added needless complexity.

This sounds like one of those idiot 19 year-old fanboi ideas that somehow turns into rumor. Without some sort of REASON to go to a 3rd turbo, it's just a stupid statement of saying "OMG 3 turbos!" without any justification for it.
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  #13  
Old 01-21-2012, 07:03 PM
samualcc samualcc is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Why on earth would you want a 3rd turbo? You are already getting instant-on spool and delivery at 1400 rpms that can stay on to the high RPMs.

And remember, turbos are about exhaust volume and they don't share exhaust. So now, you're down to 2 cylinders per turbo. In order for that amount of exhaust (in an inline 6 of 3.0 to 3.2 liters) to be worth something, you need a small turbo - not a big turbo.

So, now you're limited to a small turbo by it's design, but you've already got instant spool in today's twin turbo inline sixes, so you gain nothing in turns of low-end torque or power.
You've just added needless complexity.

This sounds like one of those idiot 19 year-old fanboi ideas that somehow turns into rumor. Without some sort of REASON to go to a 3rd turbo, it's just a stupid statement of saying "OMG 3 turbos!" without any justification for it.
If you look at the original posters history, you will gain some insight. You are not too far off though...
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  #14  
Old 01-21-2012, 07:27 PM
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Can a mod take care of this...troll OP, posting UNCONFIRMED info, and provides no legit source
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  #15  
Old 01-21-2012, 07:54 PM
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SteVTEC SteVTEC is online now
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Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Why on earth would you want a 3rd turbo? You are already getting instant-on spool and delivery at 1400 rpms that can stay on to the high RPMs.
No you don't get "INSTANT ON" power if you mash the gas in a higher gear at 1400rpm. At that low of an RPM, it takes a few seconds for power to build up to peak, but it will eventually get there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
And remember, turbos are about exhaust volume and they don't share exhaust. So now, you're down to 2 cylinders per turbo. In order for that amount of exhaust (in an inline 6 of 3.0 to 3.2 liters) to be worth something, you need a small turbo - not a big turbo.

So, now you're limited to a small turbo by it's design, but you've already got instant spool in today's twin turbo inline sixes, so you gain nothing in turns of low-end torque or power.
You've just added needless complexity.

This sounds like one of those idiot 19 year-old fanboi ideas that somehow turns into rumor. Without some sort of REASON to go to a 3rd turbo, it's just a stupid statement of saying "OMG 3 turbos!" without any justification for it.
The tri-turbo setup has already been widely reported/rumored so this is hardly the first report of it. The concept/rumor points to the third turbo being electric, and possibly being used to pre-spool the other main turbos so that you *DO* get "instant on" power as soon as the gas is mashed and from any RPM. A sort of anti-lag technology that won't nuke your emissions compliance strategy, and would make the engine perform far closer to a high-performance naturally aspirated one as far as response/lag. As good as the N54/N55 are, there's still some turbo lag.
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  #16  
Old 01-22-2012, 04:32 AM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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Stevtec,

Really, so all those charts of the 300lb/ft of torque at 1400 rpms in the n55 - that's not instant on power?

Also, an electric "third turbocharger" would actually not be a turbocharger.

1. It would be electric, so it wouldn't spool off exhaust
2. It wouldn't be compressing intake air that goes into the cylinders

That sort of technology is called turbo-assist. Whether hydraulic or electric, it's simply a turbo-assist system - not a 3rd turbocharger.
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:29 AM
calmwinds calmwinds is offline
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Stevtec,

Really, so all those charts of the 300lb/ft of torque at 1400 rpms in the n55 - that's not instant on power?

Also, an electric "third turbocharger" would actually not be a turbocharger.

1. It would be electric, so it wouldn't spool off exhaust
2. It wouldn't be compressing intake air that goes into the cylinders

That sort of technology is called turbo-assist. Whether hydraulic or electric, it's simply a turbo-assist system - not a 3rd turbocharger.
Then it's not a tri turbo if that's your argument ok? This tri turbo is all a myth because according to Joe it's a "turbo-assist". It's settled
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:35 PM
pcbrew pcbrew is offline
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FYI, here is a good description of the BMW electric turbo patent:

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showth...ight=tri-turbo

It's really electric assist to reduce lag so still a "real" turbo or is at least part of the time.

The electric motor is used to spin up the compressor very fast and then de-coupled when the turbine driven by exhaust gasses spools up (prior to that, the turbine is de-coupled).

Maybe thy use 3 of these hybrid turbos and they need the electric assist to avoid lag since only 2 cylinders feed each turbine.
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:28 PM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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The whole 3 turbo thingie sound like pure marketing rather than necessity, if true it will be a great selling point as no one else will have it and they will be able to put what ever spin on it they want. But for me personally I think the sheer complicity would make me steer clear at least for a year or two till I see just how reliable it would be.
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:57 AM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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Originally Posted by calmwinds View Post
Then it's not a tri turbo if that's your argument ok? This tri turbo is all a myth because according to Joe it's a "turbo-assist". It's settled
In his specific example, he said the 3rd turbo was electric and pre-spooled the other 2 turbos.

In that example, yes, there's no 3rd turbo.

Realize what a turbocharger is, then realize what he referenced, and try to understand why I said what I said. I enjoy snark as much as the next guy, but I think you missed your mark here
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:25 AM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is online now
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Yeah...and somebody who can express it clearly.
lol really... Anyone can make a thread
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:32 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Electric turbo assist seems interesting to reduce lag but the question is can it be made to be reliable and who will be brave enough to buy it the first few years. Turbos run at extreme speed and temperatures so to put an electric type motor to withstand the heat would be interesting.
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:08 PM
calmwinds calmwinds is offline
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
Electric turbo assist seems interesting to reduce lag but the question is can it be made to be reliable and who will be brave enough to buy it the first few years. Turbos run at extreme speed and temperatures so to put an electric type motor to withstand the heat would be interesting.
lots of people will be brave enough to buy it in the first year. happens everytime
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:55 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Originally Posted by samualcc View Post
If you look at the original posters history, you will gain some insight. You are not too far off though...
You ALL can take up your "doubts" with BNW NA and Auto Nation, specifically Desert BMW...
I did NOT make this up...it is NOT MY idea...THEY are in the "business" and in the KNOW, far, far MORE than any of us on these forums...PERIOD!

I sense some sour grapes, perhaps from those who have "oops"...already ordered
Good things come to those who wait

When it comes to pass...BOTH the power bump for the M-Sport, much like the 335is AND the Tri-Turbo for the M3 ( YES, BMW has a distinct purpose for that 3rd & very different TC...think they are a bit brighter than all you armchair engineers...)
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:57 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
No you don't get "INSTANT ON" power if you mash the gas in a higher gear at 1400rpm. At that low of an RPM, it takes a few seconds for power to build up to peak, but it will eventually get there.


The tri-turbo setup has already been widely reported/rumored so this is hardly the first report of it. The concept/rumor points to the third turbo being electric, and possibly being used to pre-spool the other main turbos so that you *DO* get "instant on" power as soon as the gas is mashed and from any RPM. A sort of anti-lag technology that won't nuke your emissions compliance strategy, and would make the engine perform far closer to a high-performance naturally aspirated one as far as response/lag. As good as the N54/N55 are, there's still some turbo lag.
Exactly
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