Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)

X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
Talk about the E83 BMW X3 in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-22-2012, 03:47 PM
csorliesd csorliesd is offline
Registered User
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 11
Mein Auto: X3 & 328xi
'05 E83 chugging at highway speeds

Hey everyone, normally I can find answers to my questions through searching the vast forums available, but I'm not having as much luck tonight.

I have a 2005 E83, 3.0i, AT, 75k miles. I have owned it since 2008 (18k miles), and I have kept up all the maintenance, often in advance of the timeline. Here is my issue:

Around 60mph & 80mph, when I attempt to slightly increase speed, the vehicle chugs and does not increase speed. The RPMs are hovering around 2-3k when this happens. I can sustain the chugging if I do nothing else, the vehicle neither increases speed nor shifts.

I get the impression that the X3 should or wants to downshift, but is hesitating -- though this is mere conjecture. When I give it a good deal more throttle, it will downshift & I can gain the speed I was aiming for.

There are no service lights showing. I do not notice this issue at lower speeds. I have tried adding a fuel injector cleaner to the last two tanks of fuel.
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 01-22-2012, 04:00 PM
jman103099's Avatar
jman103099 jman103099 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Central IL
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 283
Mein Auto: 2011 X3, 2011 328i
Holes in the intake boot?
__________________
2011 X3 28i (1/12 - present)
2011 328i (5/11 - present)
2009 MINI Cooper (4/09 - 5/11)
2006 X3 (03/07 - 1/12)
1995 325i (05/06 - 3/09)
1985 325e (08/99 - 12/04)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-22-2012, 06:00 PM
X3 Marauder X3 Marauder is offline
Registered User
Location: New Mexico
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 11
Mein Auto: 04 X3 / 02 325iT
Get your codes read. Not all give a service light.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-22-2012, 06:21 PM
mlukas161's Avatar
mlukas161 mlukas161 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: WNY
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 884
Mein Auto: 03 330i, 04 X3
Possibly time to change the oxygen sensors?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-23-2012, 06:07 AM
csorliesd csorliesd is offline
Registered User
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 11
Mein Auto: X3 & 328xi
Good ideas all around. I'll have the codes read first, and get back to you guys...thanks for the ideas & quick posts
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-21-2012, 04:26 PM
csorliesd csorliesd is offline
Registered User
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 11
Mein Auto: X3 & 328xi
After nearly 8 months of dealing with this problem...it appears solved.

Over the past few months I have had it looked at on multiple occasions, with no indy shop able to diagnose it...and the problem becoming more and more apparent. However, at 88k miles, the SES light finally came on and a code finally went: O2 sensor heating element, pre-cat.

Had both replaced on Monday (props to Chris at Treehouse Racing/Bimmers USA in Nashville for awesome service) - and after about 100 miles, everything is now running *almost* perfect. Chris stated that it takes a few days for the car to adjust to new O2 sensors, so I'm being patient - but it appears to have fixed the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-22-2012, 10:24 AM
Frenchx3 Frenchx3 is offline
Registered User
Location: NH
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 86
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
My X3 (05 with 114k) is doing the EXACT same thing. It started about 6-8 months ago and has gotten progressively worse over time. I am going to replace the Vanos seals tomorrow as the symptoms reported with the seals failure is identical to what I've been experiencing. Apparently it is an extremely common issue with M52 and M54 engines. Just search Vanos repair in search and look at all the threads you'll find.

Here are the symptoms:

Vanos Seals Failure Symptoms
Overall loss of torque and power, particularly in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Bogging then surging at 3k RPM. Uneven power distribution and RPM transition. Engine hesitations in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Louder idle and intermittent idle RPM hiccups. Difficult takeoffs. Loss of power and bogging when AC on. Increased fuel consumption. Vanos fault codes.
Double vanos cars with the M52TU engine (98/99-00) experience cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall.

Your engine has a Double Vanos valve timing system. Lots of research and work has been put in to diagnose and fix the issue

Check out the following: http://www.beisansystems.com It offers a very concise explanation of why the seals fail, how they came up with a replacement seal solution and a step by step guide for doing it yourself.

I hope it works. I will post results this weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-26-2012, 08:42 AM
Frenchx3 Frenchx3 is offline
Registered User
Location: NH
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 86
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Well, the Vanos seal and valve cover gasket replacement went very smoothly... No problems at all. It took just about 5 hours and the whole thing cost about $100. The leak from my valve cover gasket was right where most people find it...back left corner (looking at the front of the car). Unfortunately, it did not completely solve the problems I was having. The skipping I was getting at idle has gone away but the chugging is still there between 2.5k and 3.k RPM. So I'm back to the drawing board. My long term fuel trims are running high which could be a vacuum leak or o2 sensors that are checking out..... I'll throw some new sensors in and see what happens next.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:52 AM
csorliesd csorliesd is offline
Registered User
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 11
Mein Auto: X3 & 328xi
Well, good luck with the O2 sensors. I thought my problem was solved, but now it has returned. It is less noticeable, but I still notice it. If the vanos seals didn't do the trick, nor O2 sensors... does anyone else have ideas??

I also checked the intake boot, but no issues there either.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-02-2012, 08:56 AM
Frenchx3 Frenchx3 is offline
Registered User
Location: NH
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 86
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by csorliesd View Post
Well, good luck with the O2 sensors. I thought my problem was solved, but now it has returned. It is less noticeable, but I still notice it. If the vanos seals didn't do the trick, nor O2 sensors... does anyone else have ideas??

I also checked the intake boot, but no issues there either.
I hear your frustration... My 02 sensors are coming in today. I might be able to put them in tonight. I'll let you know how it goes. If it's not the sensors I think the only other thing it could be is a vacuum leak. I've been watching my long term fuel trims on a scanner and they are about 7-8% which is way high.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-02-2012, 06:39 PM
Frenchx3 Frenchx3 is offline
Registered User
Location: NH
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 86
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
I was able to put the 02 sensors in tonight in about 30 minutes. The old ones came right out without any problem. Didn't even have to remove the strut brace or the cabin filter housing., The good news is it has made a huge difference. My X3 hasn't run this well in 6 months. Smooth power across the whole rpm range...not a hiccup or a fart. I'm crossing my fingers hoping the problem is finally solved.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Bimmer App
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	uploadfromtaptalk1341279176697.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	139.8 KB
ID:	331406  
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-06-2012, 07:50 PM
Cchrono Cchrono is offline
Registered User
Location: Philly
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: Bmw
I have the same issue I change both precat O2 sensors as this was what the service light stated. I still have hesitation on higher speeds but no longer lower. I remember reading something about the dime needing to be reprogrammed does anybody know of anything about this fix?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-09-2012, 06:30 AM
Frenchx3 Frenchx3 is offline
Registered User
Location: NH
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 86
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Well it's back to the drawing board... After a day or two of smooth running the chugging, hesitation is back. Not as bad as before but back never the less.... and my rear window drive dog just broke... This thing sure does keep you busy
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-09-2012, 11:32 AM
murderland murderland is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: s/s
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 129
Mein Auto: x3
maybe you should try getting some codes read, there might be a code stored but no actual SES light.

i suppose if you're buying low quality gas, the fuel filter may be dirty. Who knows, it could be a bunch of things.

another common problem with the x3 are tears in the intake boot
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-09-2012, 01:01 PM
mlukas161's Avatar
mlukas161 mlukas161 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: WNY
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 884
Mein Auto: 03 330i, 04 X3
How about the ignition coils? I believe there was a recall on certain vin number m54 engines. That may lead to a hesitation at certain rpms.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-09-2012, 01:50 PM
Frenchx3 Frenchx3 is offline
Registered User
Location: NH
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 86
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
I've done all of the following:

Replaced Intake boot about 1 year ago (before this issue began had a CEL which went away).
Replaced spark plugs (about 3 weeks ago).. No marked improvement.. Coils "looked" perfect
Replaced Vanos seals.... Solved rough idle issue....hesitation still present
Replaced 02 sensors....problem went away for about 24, 48 hours... (Go figure).

I do have an OBDII code and live data reader.. No codes are present... No misfires reported.

Long term fuel trims vary from 5.5% at idle to 8.0% at higher RPM's I've heard that this is high but not high enough to throw a code and may be indicative of a vacuum leak.

Did the cigar smoke test.....no apparent leaks..

I have to say....I'm at a loss here. I really don't know where to look next.

Could this be tranny related?? I've had vehicles with transmission shudder before and this doesn't feel like it to me.
I also changed the fluid in the Transfer Case. It was pretty dark which is to be expected at 114K.

I'm about ready to try the push it off a cliff test

Last edited by Frenchx3; 07-09-2012 at 01:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-09-2012, 07:51 PM
mlukas161's Avatar
mlukas161 mlukas161 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: WNY
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 884
Mein Auto: 03 330i, 04 X3
I'll throw a few ideas out there for discussion.

1. Has transmission fluid been changed?
2. Have you checked the DISA flap?
3. Could it be a bad catalytic converter.
4. Maybe a bad ignition coil?
5. Clogged fuel filter - which I believe is located in the gas tank and impossible to access.

I would say it sounds transmission related, but its peculiar that the O2 sensors made a temporary difference.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-10-2012, 01:14 PM
Frenchx3 Frenchx3 is offline
Registered User
Location: NH
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 86
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlukas161 View Post
I'll throw a few ideas out there for discussion.

1. Has transmission fluid been changed?
2. Have you checked the DISA flap?
3. Could it be a bad catalytic converter.
4. Maybe a bad ignition coil?
5. Clogged fuel filter - which I believe is located in the gas tank and impossible to access.

I would say it sounds transmission related, but its peculiar that the O2 sensors made a temporary difference.
1. Tranny fluid has not been changed... That is definitely on list of things to do.
2. Have not checked the DISA flap but do not have any other symptoms that would suggest there is an issue.

3. Doubt it's a converter. Those usually throw codes.
4. Not sure on ignition coils either. The engine is smooth all the way through the RPM range. The hesitation only occurs sometimes in the 2800-3400 RPM range while driving, 4th or 5th gear.
5. Fuel filter has not been changed yet (also on the list) but I would think that the problem would persist throughout the RPM range and even more so at the higher RPM levels where the engine is calling for more fuel.

The immediate problem of the week is the rear window regulator repair job..... This thing is rapidly catching up with my Audi as far nuisance repairs are concerned.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-18-2012, 07:46 AM
Frenchx3 Frenchx3 is offline
Registered User
Location: NH
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 86
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
UPDATE:

I went to see a local Indy and they reset the adaptation values for the TC, cleared a bunch of codes (including misfires), updated the firmware for the transmission and checked the version of firmware on the DME (it was up to date).

This made a huge difference in the shifting patterns. They are now very smooth particularly going from 1st to 2nd which was always a hard shift.

However, the hesitation/chugging at 2800 to 3400 range is still there. The gear it is in doesn't matter. I can make it happen in any gear. It seems much more prominent when under load, like going up a hill.

The Tech said it could be a bad coil so I bought a new one and systematically tested it in on every cylinder and there was no improvement at all.

This is driving me crazy...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:46 AM
mlukas161's Avatar
mlukas161 mlukas161 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: WNY
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 884
Mein Auto: 03 330i, 04 X3
If I were you, I would pull the DISA. It's a 10 minute job and at the very least you could check it off the list of possible culprits.

Here is some info regarding what the DISA does. It seems like a possible cause of chugging / loss of power.

The flap is powered close, controlled by the DME. The resonance system provides increased engine torque at low RPM, as well as additional power at high RPM. Both of these features are obtained by using a resonance flap (in the intake manifold) controlled by the DME. During the low to mid range rpm, the resonance flap is closed. This produces a long/single intake tube for velocity, which increases engine torque.
During mid range to high rpm, the resonance flap is open. This allows the intake air to pull
through both resonance tubes, providing the air volume necessary for additional power at
the upper RPM range.
When the flap is closed , this creates another "dynamic" effect. For example, as the intake
air is flowing into cylinder #1, the intake valves will close. This creates a "roadblock" for the rushing air. The air flow will stop and expand back (resonance wave back pulse) with the rushing air to cylinder #5. The resonance "wave", along with the intake velocity,
enhances cylinder filling.
The DME controls a solenoid valve for resonance flap activation. At speeds below 3750
RPM, the solenoid valve is energized and vacuum supplied from an accumulator closes
the resonance flap. This channels the intake air through one resonance tube, but increases
the intake velocity.
When the engine speed is greater than 4100 RPM (which varies slightly - temperature influenced), the solenoid is de-energized. The resonance flap is sprung open, allowing flow through both resonance tubes, increasing volume.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-19-2012, 12:45 PM
Frenchx3 Frenchx3 is offline
Registered User
Location: NH
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 86
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Thanks for the suggestion...I think I'll do that tonight. I had it off about a year and a half ago when I did my intake boot and it looked fine, maybe it's gone bad since then.... I'll let you know what I find.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-19-2012, 06:07 PM
murderland murderland is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: s/s
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 129
Mein Auto: x3
are you guys sure the problem isn't just how the automatic tranny reacts? I'm just making sure because I don't want you guys to go around 'fixing' ghost problems
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-20-2012, 06:13 AM
Frenchx3 Frenchx3 is offline
Registered User
Location: NH
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 86
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by murderland View Post
are you guys sure the problem isn't just how the automatic tranny reacts? I'm just making sure because I don't want you guys to go around 'fixing' ghost problems
No..definitely not normal transmission action. I also don't like throwing parts at problems without some logical diagnosis.

I took out the DISA valve last night and it is fine. It has no play at all and plenty of resistance when pushing it closed.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-23-2012, 08:29 AM
Frenchx3 Frenchx3 is offline
Registered User
Location: NH
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 86
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
UPDATE

This weekend I decided to throw a bottle of injector cleaner in thinking it might help. I had run a couple bottles through last winter with no major improvement but it was the cheap stuff. This time around I bought some Chevron Techron Fuel injector cleaner for about 8 bucks. I'm totally flabbergasted... the problem has almost completely gone away after a half of tank of gas. I used to be able to make the stutter/hesitation happen at will in the 2500-3500 RPM range, now it is only slightly noticeable on occasion.

I've been dealing with this for almost a year and really chasing it for the last several months. The good news is it made me do a lot of the preventative stuff which is good. I think I'll change the fuel filter and run a few more bottles through. I'm crossing my fingers that this was the problem.

Hopefully these posts will help someone else out......
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-23-2012, 09:57 AM
swapsafari swapsafari is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New Mexico
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 118
Mein Auto: 07 BMW X3 3.0si Black
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchx3 View Post
I was able to put the 02 sensors in tonight in about 30 minutes. The old ones came right out without any problem. Didn't even have to remove the strut brace or the cabin filter housing., The good news is it has made a huge difference. My X3 hasn't run this well in 6 months. Smooth power across the whole rpm range...not a hiccup or a fart. I'm crossing my fingers hoping the problem is finally solved.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Bimmer App
FrenchX3,
How did you get to the Bank 2, Sensor 1 ( the one to the rear on passenger side). I have replaced the one on the front but having a hard time removing the oxygen sensro cover on the rear one. How did you remove that cover? Underneath the car? Give me some insight if you can.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms