Doesn't Anyone Buy Anymore?

Originally Posted by Kamdog

I wasn't putting more money in the market at that time, I was spending it.

I was retired, and quite satisfied with my investment mix.

At some point, when you have spent decades saving for a rainy day, you have to recognize when it is raining.

Everybody's situation is different.

This summer we went on a very nice trip to Alaska. It cost as much as leasing a 650i for a year. At some point, you stop accumulating money, and start spending it. As a 62 year old guy, I am not getting the years back, so that 25K would probably have mostly gone in a trip to Antarctica.

Alaska photos linked in this thread http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...16&postcount=2

(I am on my iPad, so it would be a PITA to give a more direct link.)

That I understand and I agree. BTW I took the family to Alaska in 2010. We had an awesome time. Cruised 7 days and 6 days train bus. Loved Denali national park.

I am by no means an expert in these matters, or even what could be called well-versed. I just know that I keep cars a long time (I have two, average age of 10.5 years) and when I look at the Estimate a Payment page on BMW's website, having selected a base 328i with Premium ($41,045 MSRP) I see the option to lease for 48 months at $544/mo + $2500 down, or finance for 48 months at 3.79% at $867/mo + $2500 down. Total cost of the lease, extrapolated to 10 years so 2.5 leases is $71,530. Total cost of the purchase is $44,116. (Not including maintenance, but surely that won't eat up the $27k difference.) Is my math off, or am I missing something, or is it just my 10-year ownership horizon?

Your math is off. When the lease comes due, you can buy the car out for a reduced sum. If the APR of the loan and the APR of the money factor are the same, then on a present value basis, the total costs will be roughly identical. They'll differ only because of some bank fees.

Even for LT buyers (such as me), leases often make sense because A) if the car is worth less than the residual at the end of the lease, you may be able to negotiate a reduced buyout and B) if for any reason you want to get rid of the car (accidents, reliability, change in life circumstances), you hold an option.

Originally Posted by SuperTerp

Wait so would I say buy an extra 10,000 @ .10 so over 3 years you've added 3k in costs, if you stay under the original amount do you still get charged that amount or is it only how many you go over?

I was told that you can buy extra miles at .10 per mile up front vs paying the .20 on the back end when you turn the car in and have gone over.

I believe you have to add these extra miles at some point fairly early in the lease and it's not a per annum thing it's simply a "total extra miles" thing.

There also might be an upward total cap, I have no idea. All I know is that my CA knew that it was possible that instead of 45,000 miles on my lease I could put as many as 60,000 miles and he said it is not a problem as long as I catch it at about the mid-way point... he apparently has many clients that lease the cars, put 60K miles on them and then lease something else.

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

I was told that you can buy extra miles at .10 per mile up front vs paying the .20 on the back end when you turn the car in and have gone over.

I believe you have to add these extra miles at some point fairly early in the lease and it's not a per annum thing it's simply a "total extra miles" thing.

There also might be an upward total cap, I have no idea. All I know is that my CA knew that it was possible that instead of 45,000 miles on my lease I could put as many as 60,000 miles and he said it is not a problem as long as I catch it at about the mid-way point... he apparently has many clients that lease the cars, put 60K miles on them and then lease something else.

lol look what you guys have done got me looking at leases m6 vert watch out campus

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

I was told that you can buy extra miles at .10 per mile up front vs paying the .20 on the back end when you turn the car in and have gone over.

I believe you have to add these extra miles at some point fairly early in the lease and it's not a per annum thing it's simply a "total extra miles" thing.

There also might be an upward total cap, I have no idea. All I know is that my CA knew that it was possible that instead of 45,000 miles on my lease I could put as many as 60,000 miles and he said it is not a problem as long as I catch it at about the mid-way point... he apparently has many clients that lease the cars, put 60K miles on them and then lease something else.

I am sorry, but unless something recently changed you got bad info. BMW charges .15 cents a mile for every mile over 15k per year. If you do not want to do that and you lease through BMWFS you can buy the extra miles all the way up to 120 days before lease maturity using the MAP program (mileage adjustment program) available in my bmw online. If you go the MAP mileage route it is .16 cents a mile and they bill it in lump sum or divide it evenly over the remining number of monthly payments. The residual is set and that does not change. It is a good deal when you have a really high residual because that makes the high mileage lease a better deal. If you wait until lease termination then you get hit with the .20 cents a mile figure. Many knowlegeable people who lease BMW's with financial services (like myself) have become experts in manipulating the leases to accomodate a high mileage lease. I will be doing this again if I go the M5 route. A little more knowledge for you...with BMWFS you can write a lease at inception up to a total of 100k miles. So you can actually do a 36/33 lease or a 24/50 lease. I have previously done 36/30 leases and turned them in with 90k on the clock. It used to be a really good deal about 5 years ago when the car cost was lower and the residuals were in the mid-60's for 36 months. Back then a high mileage lease was a no brainer.

Originally Posted by SuperTerp

lol look what you guys have done got me looking at leases m6 vert watch out campus

Terp....you have an idea what the going rate is for an M6 lease right now?? The rates and residuals are terrible as is usually the case with a new release M car (same thing will happen next year when the F14 M3 drops). If you really want an M6 wait a year or two (like I am for the M5) and it will drop considerably. I am serious...the lease rates are so bad right now buying would make more sense than a lease through BMWFS.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

I drive 30k plus miles a year and I purchased this 535i. Having said that though I tend to agree with statements made by BJ in this thread about the advantages of leasing. In my opinion leasing versus buying is based on the rates/residuals versus the finance rate. I look at each way of driving the car and make a decision on what makes the most sense financially. I can afford to buy or lease so that has nothing to do with it. It just so happened that when I got the 335d and the 535i the finance rate was so low that it made more sense to buy the cars versus leasing each of them. I am the type that gets a new car, on average, every couple of years, but that may change. I currently have my eye on the M5, E63 and Panamera....all of those cars are quite expensive to maintain out of warranty and I am pretty sure that if I get one of those it will be a lease because I do not want to own any of them with 150k miles (which is about 4-5 years worth of driving for me). My point to add to this discussion is that each person should take a close look at the car they are buying and look at leasing versus financing and make the choice that seems best for them. However, I do think people should not automatically say I will only lease or only buy. Either one can make great sense depending on incentives at the time.

This is a good comment in a very interesting thread. I have not followed it the whole time, so forgive any repetition. I am waiting on my first leased vehicle, and prior to this would have considered myself a staunch ownican (vs. leasocrat?). I agonized over this decision and finally concluded that right now it made sense for me to lease. I just don't see how anyone could be permanently fixed on one side of the fence. To me, it is entirely dependent on one's situation, preferences and financial situation/objectives.

My car is out of warranty and I am spending a lot of money every year on maintenance/repairs (like the $900 I just had to shell out for a new starter two weeks before I take delivery of my new car). It has 62,000 miles on it, so my thought was to use the trade-in value while I have it to upgrade my technology (I have an '06 that is WAY behind on technology), ensure I can stay in a comparable car and mitigate some of the risk of having to shell out for a new car in 3-5 years when the rate environment could be much less favorable (and things in general less certain).

I would be financing a car regardless (at some point), so the way I am looking at it, and I hope someone here will correct me if my thinking is flawed, is that a lease gives me optionality and more favorable financing terms. With regard to optionality, I have three years to determine whether I think the car is worth it and is not a lemon. Plus, I have a built in decision point at the three year mark as to whether I keep the car (i.e., finance the residual value) or upgrade depending on my financial situation. On the financing terms, I figure that my cost of funds is almost 0% for three years and I can effectively stretch out the term of the financing. Even if interest rates double in three years, I could finance the residual value for 72 months to keep my payment the same and the effective interest rate over the life of the financing well below the higher rate. Some basic math that I am using:

Purchase price of $50,295 w/ 58% residual ($587/month of depreciation), nothing down for the sake of comparison and simplicity. Monthly payment on a 36-mo. lease of $673. Financing at 3.75% for 36-mos. would be about $1,500/month. If you run the financing out, you are basically paying between $550 and $625 or so in principal every month, or pretty close to the lease payment. In my view the principal reduction equates to depreciation embedded in the lease payment, which implies a minimal interest rate on the lease. If I end up buying it out of lease, I'm only financing the residual value and would be able to push out the term to as much as 9 years (36-mo. lease plus 72-mo. financing). If I'm in a good spot financially AND lease terms make sense, I do it again. If not, I buy it out (or buy an upgrade). Not without risk, but what is and this just seems compelling to me. I would rather buy a car when I don't have to and can do so on favorable terms rather than being forced to on uncertain terms down the road.

What am I missing here? Knowing myself, I will fall in love with the car and buy it out of lease. That is my tendency. I still love my car and appreciate it, but it has not reciprocated by becoming more costly to maintain, so it's time to part ways in favor of something younger. Hopefully not quite the trophy yet, but getting closer, and something exciting and new to keep my blood flowing. I'm totally still talking about cars here, btw.

Originally Posted by skydog0203

This is a good comment in a very interesting thread. I have not followed it the whole time, so forgive any repetition. I am waiting on my first leased vehicle, and prior to this would have considered myself a staunch ownican (vs. leasocrat?). I agonized over this decision and finally concluded that right now it made sense for me to lease. I just don't see how anyone could be permanently fixed on one side of the fence. To me, it is entirely dependent on one's situation, preferences and financial situation/objectives.

My car is out of warranty and I am spending a lot of money every year on maintenance/repairs (like the $900 I just had to shell out for a new starter two weeks before I take delivery of my new car). It has 62,000 miles on it, so my thought was to use the trade-in value while I have it to upgrade my technology (I have an '06 that is WAY behind on technology), ensure I can stay in a comparable car and mitigate some of the risk of having to shell out for a new car in 3-5 years when the rate environment could be much less favorable (and things in general less certain).

I would be financing a car regardless (at some point), so the way I am looking at it, and I hope someone here will correct me if my thinking is flawed, is that a lease gives me optionality and more favorable financing terms. With regard to optionality, I have three years to determine whether I think the car is worth it and is not a lemon. Plus, I have a built in decision point at the three year mark as to whether I keep the car (i.e., finance the residual value) or upgrade depending on my financial situation. On the financing terms, I figure that my cost of funds is almost 0% for three years and I can effectively stretch out the term of the financing. Even if interest rates double in three years, I could finance the residual value for 72 months to keep my payment the same and the effective interest rate over the life of the financing well below the higher rate. Some basic math that I am using:

Purchase price of $50,295 w/ 58% residual ($587/month of depreciation), nothing down for the sake of comparison and simplicity. Monthly payment on a 36-mo. lease of $673. Financing at 3.75% for 36-mos. would be about $1,500/month. If you run the financing out, you are basically paying between $550 and $625 or so in principal every month, or pretty close to the lease payment. In my view the principal reduction equates to depreciation embedded in the lease payment, which implies a minimal interest rate on the lease. If I end up buying it out of lease, I'm only financing the residual value and would be able to push out the term to as much as 9 years (36-mo. lease plus 72-mo. financing). If I'm in a good spot financially AND lease terms make sense, I do it again. If not, I buy it out (or buy an upgrade). Not without risk, but what is and this just seems compelling to me. I would rather buy a car when I don't have to and can do so on favorable terms rather than being forced to on uncertain terms down the road.

What am I missing here? Knowing myself, I will fall in love with the car and buy it out of lease. That is my tendency. I still love my car and appreciate it, but it has not reciprocated by becoming more costly to maintain, so it's time to part ways in favor of something younger. Hopefully not quite the trophy yet, but getting closer, and something exciting and new to keep my blood flowing. I'm totally still talking about cars here, btw.

Your logic makes sense and many people lease for these reasons. If or not fixing an out of warranty car is worth the cost versus leasing a new one is a subjective thing. That $900 starter is not that much money to maintain a car that is paid off. That is not even two car payments on a new lease. I think past experience has shown me that the average out of warranty cost is about $2000 a year and that is about 2-3 car payments for most people so the argument that buying and holding is the cheapest way to go still stands. As BJ said...it is all about how you want to spend your money. For me my car is my one vice so I am willing to spend a good chunk because the car gives me so much enjoyment.

With interest rates as low as there are there's no reason not to finance I guess (use the banks money) at lease end if you are doing a buyout but I prefer to pay cash if I want to purchase at lease end. I also have a policy of not holding a note on a car that is out of warranty.

Originally Posted by skydog0203

This is a good comment in a very interesting thread. I have not followed it the whole time, so forgive any repetition. I am waiting on my first leased vehicle, and prior to this would have considered myself a staunch ownican (vs. leasocrat?). I agonized over this decision and finally concluded that right now it made sense for me to lease. I just don't see how anyone could be permanently fixed on one side of the fence. To me, it is entirely dependent on one's situation, preferences and financial situation/objectives.

My car is out of warranty and I am spending a lot of money every year on maintenance/repairs (like the $900 I just had to shell out for a new starter two weeks before I take delivery of my new car). It has 62,000 miles on it, so my thought was to use the trade-in value while I have it to upgrade my technology (I have an '06 that is WAY behind on technology), ensure I can stay in a comparable car and mitigate some of the risk of having to shell out for a new car in 3-5 years when the rate environment could be much less favorable (and things in general less certain).

I would be financing a car regardless (at some point), so the way I am looking at it, and I hope someone here will correct me if my thinking is flawed, is that a lease gives me optionality and more favorable financing terms. With regard to optionality, I have three years to determine whether I think the car is worth it and is not a lemon. Plus, I have a built in decision point at the three year mark as to whether I keep the car (i.e., finance the residual value) or upgrade depending on my financial situation. On the financing terms, I figure that my cost of funds is almost 0% for three years and I can effectively stretch out the term of the financing. Even if interest rates double in three years, I could finance the residual value for 72 months to keep my payment the same and the effective interest rate over the life of the financing well below the higher rate. Some basic math that I am using:

Purchase price of $50,295 w/ 58% residual ($587/month of depreciation), nothing down for the sake of comparison and simplicity. Monthly payment on a 36-mo. lease of $673. Financing at 3.75% for 36-mos. would be about $1,500/month. If you run the financing out, you are basically paying between $550 and $625 or so in principal every month, or pretty close to the lease payment. In my view the principal reduction equates to depreciation embedded in the lease payment, which implies a minimal interest rate on the lease. If I end up buying it out of lease, I'm only financing the residual value and would be able to push out the term to as much as 9 years (36-mo. lease plus 72-mo. financing). If I'm in a good spot financially AND lease terms make sense, I do it again. If not, I buy it out (or buy an upgrade). Not without risk, but what is and this just seems compelling to me. I would rather buy a car when I don't have to and can do so on favorable terms rather than being forced to on uncertain terms down the road.

What am I missing here? Knowing myself, I will fall in love with the car and buy it out of lease. That is my tendency. I still love my car and appreciate it, but it has not reciprocated by becoming more costly to maintain, so it's time to part ways in favor of something younger. Hopefully not quite the trophy yet, but getting closer, and something exciting and new to keep my blood flowing. I'm totally still talking about cars here, btw.

Why the super high interest rate? PenFed is usually 1.49-1.99% for 60 months.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

I am sorry, but unless something recently changed you got bad info. BMW charges .15 cents a mile for every mile over 15k per year. If you do not want to do that and you lease through BMWFS you can buy the extra miles all the way up to 120 days before lease maturity using the MAP program (mileage adjustment program) available in my bmw online. If you go the MAP mileage route it is .16 cents a mile and they bill it in lump sum or divide it evenly over the remining number of monthly payments. The residual is set and that does not change. It is a good deal when you have a really high residual because that makes the high mileage lease a better deal. If you wait until lease termination then you get hit with the .20 cents a mile figure. Many knowlegeable people who lease BMW's with financial services (like myself) have become experts in manipulating the leases to accomodate a high mileage lease. I will be doing this again if I go the M5 route. A little more knowledge for you...with BMWFS you can write a lease at inception up to a total of 100k miles. So you can actually do a 36/33 lease or a 24/50 lease. I have previously done 36/30 leases and turned them in with 90k on the clock. It used to be a really good deal about 5 years ago when the car cost was lower and the residuals were in the mid-60's for 36 months. Back then a high mileage lease was a no brainer.

Interesting and thanks for the info, perhaps I mis-understood my CA. He definitely deals with many clients who do the high mileage thing and he said that there's always a way of making a lease work for a high mileage commuter.

My present commute could leave me with putting anywhere from 15K-20K miles per year on the car, which I have no interest in keeping past lease term (barring something crazy happening like prices shooting up residuals dropping down to nothing, etc)... so I will have to run the numbers and see how much sense it would be to run the car up as high as 20K miles per year.

I will also need to investigate what routine maintenance items are called for between 50 and 60,000 miles to see how much that all will cost.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

Your logic makes sense and many people lease for these reasons. If or not fixing an out of warranty car is worth the cost versus leasing a new one is a subjective thing. That $900 starter is not that much money to maintain a car that is paid off. That is not even two car payments on a new lease. I think past experience has shown me that the average out of warranty cost is about $2000 a year and that is about 2-3 car payments for most people so the argument that buying and holding is the cheapest way to go still stands. As BJ said...it is all about how you want to spend your money. For me my car is my one vice so I am willing to spend a good chunk because the car gives me so much enjoyment.

I completely agree with this, although I have more vices. I guess I am focused on the financing terms, being able to stay in a BMW and not having gun to my head to buy a new car when I may not be financially ready to do so. I don't think there is any question that buying makes more sense for a long-term owner. My total costs last year were closer to $3000, but even there your point still holds (although optically it hurts, especially when you have no payment).

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

With interest rates as low as there are there's no reason not to finance I guess (use the banks money) at lease end if you are doing a buyout but I prefer to pay cash if I want to purchase at lease end. I also have a policy of not holding a note on a car that is out of warranty.

I am the same way (when it comes to cars). I hate leverage, so this lease payment scares the cr@p out of me. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to pay cash, so financing at the most favorable terms possible makes sense. Plus, I'm giving myself three years to accumulate the buyout cash and make sure I don't have a lemon. The bottom line is that these lease terms are enabling me to buy a nicer car than I could afford without having to make other sacrifices to my lifestyle (i.e., my wife's lifestyle). That, to me, is the name of the game. I have loved BMWs since my dad bought his first (1984 528e). I had the good fortune of being able to fulfill my dream of buying one in 2006 and was able to do so with cash. This is my first car payment and it makes me uncomfortable to say the least, but at least I get to keep the dream alive, and do so on very favorable terms.

Originally Posted by skydog0203

I am the same way (when it comes to cars). I hate leverage, so this lease payment scares the cr@p out of me. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to pay cash, so financing at the most favorable terms possible makes sense. Plus, I'm giving myself three years to accumulate the buyout cash and make sure I don't have a lemon. The bottom line is that these lease terms are enabling me to buy a nicer car than I could afford without having to make other sacrifices to my lifestyle (i.e., my wife's lifestyle). That, to me, is the name of the game. I have loved BMWs since my dad bought his first (1984 528e). I had the good fortune of being able to fulfill my dream of buying one in 2006 and was able to do so with cash. This is my first car payment and it makes me uncomfortable to say the least, but at least I get to keep the dream alive, and do so on very favorable terms.

I guess it depends on your personal aversion to risk. The good news is that if in 3 years you don't have the payoff amount saved then you can just turn the car in. Personally when I look at leasing as an option to buy with a balloon payment I already have the funds to buy the car I am just driving it for a few years to decide if I really want to buy it or not.

I've done that with two cars, an Infiniti FX35 and an Acura MDX (both my wife's cars of course). After 3 years she was ready to run from the FX35 so we simply turned it in... the original tires even passed muster.

The MDX by comparison is exactly what she needs and she thinks that it will be a great long term family car to hang on to for 10-12 years as it is super reliable and relatively inexpensive to maintain (it doesn't hurt that it's a tank in the snow either, she is a dentist and has to get to the office whether the weather sucks or not, her patients will show up in a blizzard expecting to have a cavity filled)... so, it's more economical to hang onto it then lease something new, so we simply paid the lump sum at the end of the lease and bought it outright.

Interestingly enough the prices of the MDX also shot way up in the time we had the car. Our buyout at the end was something like $15,500 and you could not find a 3 year old used one even with high miles for less than $20,000, so we would have been stupid not to buy it in any event, even if it was just to flip it for a quick profit.

Honda finance actually called us several times trying to talk us into turning it in and getting a nice credit on a new one. Nope.

If you only drive short commute to work, from pure financial standpoint, leasing a electric car like the Volt will be the way to go. You can lease one for around $300 with no down for two years, never pay for gas.

The few BMW 1 series electric though cost over $500 a month with $2k down. Once electric becomes a viable alternative, leasing will probably be the only sensible option for them.

Originally Posted by dtc100

If you only drive short commute to work, from pure financial standpoint, leasing a electric car like the Volt will be the way to go. You can lease one for around $300 with no down for two years, never pay for gas.

The few BMW 1 series electric though cost over $500 a month with $2k down. Once electric becomes a viable alternative, leasing will probably be the only sensible option for them.

I have a buddy who got a volt. Not my cup of tea, it can't even get my heart going and I'm hyperactive.

The tech is laughable, he couldn't even get it to stream BT audio from his droid. Interior is pure budget, a Prius feels more luxurious.

Now a Tesla, I might be able to do that. Not interested in the White Star (Model S) but their rumored Blue Star (smaller sedan) might work for me.

If it had a real world round trip range of 120 miles even in the winter time I could probably make it work.

Not a big fan though of giant touch screen dash boards a la Tesla and Ford MS Touch. Maybe when haptic feedback shows up they will be better.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

Terp....you have an idea what the going rate is for an M6 lease right now?? The rates and residuals are terrible as is usually the case with a new release M car (same thing will happen next year when the F14 M3 drops). If you really want an M6 wait a year or two (like I am for the M5) and it will drop considerably. I am serious...the lease rates are so bad right now buying would make more sense than a lease through BMWFS.

lol thats the thing, any lease would be my first least, and while I'm a novice with the concepts involved, the only thing I'd know to do is to come here and post what the dealer told me

I've put 14k on my car in 6 months lmao I'm guessing I'd be paying at LEAST 3k extra for miles

Originally Posted by SuperTerp

lol thats the thing, any lease would be my first least, and while I'm a novice with the concepts involved, the only thing I'd know to do is to come here and post what the dealer told me

I've put 14k on my car in 6 months lmao I'm guessing I'd be paying at LEAST 3k extra for miles

So you are driving about 28k miles a year which is very close to what I am doing. At your rate of driving, your additional lease cost over 36 months would be approximately 6750 or an additional 187 dollars a month. Given the massive depreciation on high mileage M cars it would still be cheaper to lease an M6 (once rates/residuals get realistic) rather than buying one.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

So you are driving about 28k miles a year which is very close to what I am doing. At your rate of driving, your additional lease cost over 36 months would be approximately 6750 over the course of a 3 year lease or an additional 187 dollars a month. Given the massive depreciation on high mileage M cars it would still be cheaper to lease an M6 (once rates/residuals get realistic) than buying one.

Most of that is fun driving lmao (I'd say about 85%) but my commute did just change to 60 miles a day 5 days a week so maybe 20-25k if I stuck to limited fun driving. Don't think I'd lease a vert, but m5, m3, x6m for sure

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

Interesting and thanks for the info, perhaps I mis-understood my CA. He definitely deals with many clients who do the high mileage thing and he said that there's always a way of making a lease work for a high mileage commuter.

My present commute could leave me with putting anywhere from 15K-20K miles per year on the car, which I have no interest in keeping past lease term (barring something crazy happening like prices shooting up residuals dropping down to nothing, etc)... so I will have to run the numbers and see how much sense it would be to run the car up as high as 20K miles per year.

I will also need to investigate what routine maintenance items are called for between 50 and 60,000 miles to see how much that all will cost.

If you do mostly highway driving then your maintenance costs will be minimal. Brakes will still be good for fronts and maybe you ll have to do a set of rears (probably not). Figure an oil change or two and that is about it. The maintenance schedule on these cars is so minimal I would not give thought to the nominal amount needed to make it pass lease end inspection. I do way more than BMW recommends on the cars I purchase.

Originally Posted by SuperTerp

Most of that is fun driving lmao (I'd say about 85%) but my commute did just change to 60 miles a day 5 days a week so maybe 20-25k if I stuck to limited fun driving. Don't think I'd lease a vert, but m5, m3, x6m for sure

I wanted an x6m last year, but now that the x6 is on its way out I want to wait and see what the new one looks like. M5 all the way in my book.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

I wanted an x6m last year, but now that the x6 is on its way out I want to wait and see what the new one looks like. M5 all the way in my book.

I might not make it a year I think princess isn't happy she can sense me looking at other cars just got these lights (break 4x4 roll over arrow) right when I found a civic racer and some kid on a sport bike




She's going to the shop tomorrow (or at least I hope they'll take her with those lights)

*just looked with my trusty 59.99 odb scanner and not only were the lights gone but it wasn't throwing any codes.

Originally Posted by SuperTerp

lol look what you guys have done got me looking at leases m6 vert watch out campus

This is good (looking at leases) because it is a viable way to drive a car other than buying it. Assess your personal situation and act accordingly.

Originally Posted by Kamdog

This is good (looking at leases) because it is a viable way to drive a car other than buying it. Assess your personal situation and act accordingly.

No.

You forget the ignorant and archaic practice of car buying and you lease like everyone else.

BJ