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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #626  
Old 12-03-2012, 03:00 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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The car manufacturing process has also made for a far more reliable car. I had the most trouble with my 1980s BMWs and the least trouble with my post-2000 BMWs.

And if you think about BMW, because of its CPO program, has a significant financial incentive to make their cars more reliable -- at least for 6 years/100k miles, since they're on the hook for a fairly vast fleet. These leased cars that all get turned in after 36 months wind up being resold with a BMW warranty that extends out that far.

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Originally Posted by lsleelee View Post
The modern car is so complex, with so much electronic crap, that I think it's too risky to own one out of warranty.
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  #627  
Old 12-03-2012, 03:24 PM
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kpgray kpgray is offline
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Originally Posted by EnerJi View Post
Lease and finance rates are abnormally low relative to inflation due to current economic conditions, QE1/2/3, etc. Low interest rates should stay with us for at least another two years, but inevitably when they go up it's going to be much harder to justify a lease or finance over a straight purchase, for those with the means to purchase outright.
I purchase my cars. My last car, an Acura TL I purchased in 2005 for $33,900 out the door. After 90 months and 132,000 miles, I sold for $8K. My original loan was a Honda 0.9% so even with interest, it works out to under $300 / month over the 7.5 years. I used the money to purchase an F30 with some additional saved cash I saved and took an 84 month loan at a credit union at 2.25%. I have leased before and you are leaving yourself open to higher rates when lease renewal comes back around. I also wanted to buy because the interest rates are artificially low right now. After the Carter recession in 1980, interest rates skyrocketed to 18%! At least I am locked into this low rate.
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  #628  
Old 12-04-2012, 02:53 AM
pkim1079 pkim1079 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpgray View Post
I purchase my cars. My last car, an Acura TL I purchased in 2005 for $33,900 out the door. After 90 months and 132,000 miles, I sold for $8K. My original loan was a Honda 0.9% so even with interest, it works out to under $300 / month over the 7.5 years. I used the money to purchase an F30 with some additional saved cash I saved and took an 84 month loan at a credit union at 2.25%. I have leased before and you are leaving yourself open to higher rates when lease renewal comes back around. I also wanted to buy because the interest rates are artificially low right now. After the Carter recession in 1980, interest rates skyrocketed to 18%! At least I am locked into this low rate.
84 months?! I cant stand a car after 3 years so lease for me. My total lease cost in 3 years is not bad for a $50 car.
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  #629  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:31 AM
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voip-ninja voip-ninja is offline
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Heh. My all time record in a car was about 5 years until I bought my 2004 A4 and kept it for just over 8 years. That was getting painful at the end. Bravo to those who can keep a car for 7+ years and not start to get incredibly irritated with its shortcomings as technology marches onward.
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  #630  
Old 12-04-2012, 12:05 PM
EnerJi EnerJi is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Heh. My all time record in a car was about 5 years until I bought my 2004 A4 and kept it for just over 8 years. That was getting painful at the end. Bravo to those who can keep a car for 7+ years and not start to get incredibly irritated with its shortcomings as technology marches onward.
I hear you on that; I'm at 124 months (over 10 years) and counting! Fortunately I'll be picking up my new 335 at the Performance Center in January!
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  #631  
Old 12-04-2012, 12:11 PM
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voip-ninja voip-ninja is offline
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It's rather amazing how the car that you loved and adored for the first few years starts to drive you nuts as it gets older and all of those squeaks, rattles, paint chips, etc, add up.
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  #632  
Old 12-04-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
It's rather amazing how the car that you loved and adored for the first few years starts to drive you nuts as it gets older and all of those squeaks, rattles, paint chips, etc, add up.
That doesn't happen to me. What happens is I get bored with it. I don't even see the interior anymore.

I've kept the ZHP longer than my previous 3 cars, probably cause it sounds awesome every time I fire it up. Or maybe I'm just getting old.
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  #633  
Old 12-04-2012, 12:48 PM
EnerJi EnerJi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
It's rather amazing how the car that you loved and adored for the first few years starts to drive you nuts as it gets older and all of those squeaks, rattles, paint chips, etc, add up.
I still love my car, and despite its age it has held up very well. It only has 60k miles, which probably has something to do with it.

It's a car that no longer fits my career though, and its time has come. I'll be sad to see her go.
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  #634  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:01 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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I may get flamed for this, but I want to make sure I understanding cash/finance/car rental(leasing) correctly. Let's say:

C = cap cost for lease and purchase price for cash/finance
R = residual at lease end, say, n months, or N years. This is also the value of car at end of N years, and let's say the finance is for the same n/N period
r = APR of lease. Just assume finance rate is also r

Cash - Net cost after N years is C - R
Finance - Net cost after N years is ( C + (C/2)*r*N ) - R, or ( C - R) + (C/2)*r*N
Lease - Net cost after N years is ( C - R )+ (C/2 + R/2 )*r*N

For finance, cost is C(the purchase price), plus the interest paid during finance term. C/2 is an approximation of averaged financed amount, the loan goes to 0 at finance end, hence (C+0)/2 becomes C/2. Since the car is still worth R, so the net cost is ( C + (C/2)*r*N ) - R.

The lease net cost math is discussed in previous posts, so hopefully I get it right.

So from the above math(and assumptions), is cash purchase cheaper than finance by (C/2)*r*N, and finance is cheaper than lease by (R/2)*r*N?

I would like to get these numbers in my head right. Pardon me if I repeat some of discussions from before(this is a long, long thread).
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  #635  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:05 AM
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voip-ninja voip-ninja is offline
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Your question is only relevant if you provide a baseline for how long the person drives the car. If someone keeps cars for 10 or more years then cash purchase is ALWAYS the lowest cost option.
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  #636  
Old 12-05-2012, 02:55 PM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
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Fun article on yahoo today.

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/five-myt...012108993.html
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  #637  
Old 12-05-2012, 03:22 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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An article I once read said that car manufacturers like leasing because it provides an additional profit opportunity when those cars are sold a second time. I don't quite get how manufacturers turn a profit on lease turn-ins.
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  #638  
Old 12-05-2012, 05:40 PM
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jagu jagu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
An article I once read said that car manufacturers like leasing because it provides an additional profit opportunity when those cars are sold a second time. I don't quite get how manufacturers turn a profit on lease turn-ins.
I don't get it either, especially with BMW's inflated residuals.
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  #639  
Old 12-05-2012, 05:43 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Your question is only relevant if you provide a baseline for how long the person drives the car. If someone keeps cars for 10 or more years then cash purchase is ALWAYS the lowest cost option.
Not necessarily in the case of BMW with it's Ultimate Service warranty.

A leaser is in his 4th new BMW by Year 10, under warranty the entire time.

A buyer is in his original BMW by Year 10, out of warranty for 7 years, has near 150,000 miles on the odometer, likely $3000-$5000 in maintenance/repair costs along the way.

BJ
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  #640  
Old 12-05-2012, 06:40 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Quote:
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I don't get it either, especially with BMW's inflated residuals.
Maybe the real magic is an inflated C(either cap cost or purchase price), so BMW wins whichever way we go.
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  #641  
Old 12-05-2012, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo View Post
The tax question is misleading in a large way, since it does not acknowlege the ongoing tax situation for the next lease, nor the tax savings on the next car when the current car is traded in.

But it generally says what we all say. If you are going to keep for several years, I say 6, you are better off buying. If you are going to turn your cars over every three or four years, you save yourself a lot of agita and possibly some cash, by leasing.
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  #642  
Old 12-05-2012, 07:27 PM
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volsfan0911 volsfan0911 is offline
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Since I'm a small business owner it's a no brainer - leasing works well for me. My only gripe with it is living in Maryland where I have to fork over sales tax on the entire purchase price rather than most states that only charge sales tax on the leased portion. Otherwise, since financing is so cheap now, I'd go with Navy Fed (who owns my house and everything in it anyway) and 1.79% APR.
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  #643  
Old 12-05-2012, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
That doesn't happen to me. What happens is I get bored with it. I don't even see the interior anymore.

I've kept the ZHP longer than my previous 3 cars, probably cause it sounds awesome every time I fire it up. Or maybe I'm just getting old.
No, the ZHP is awesome. Test drove many before deciding I couldn't find a quality used one at a reasonable price. Still a great car. Much more engaging than my F30.
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  #644  
Old 12-05-2012, 09:52 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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Some states don't give a sales tax credit for the trade in.

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Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
The tax question is misleading in a large way, since it does not acknowlege the ongoing tax situation for the next lease, nor the tax savings on the next car when the current car is traded in.

But it generally says what we all say. If you are going to keep for several years, I say 6, you are better off buying. If you are going to turn your cars over every three or four years, you save yourself a lot of agita and possibly some cash, by leasing.
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  #645  
Old 12-05-2012, 09:55 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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Not true if you consider that buying out your own lease can sometimes be negotiated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Your question is only relevant if you provide a baseline for how long the person drives the car. If someone keeps cars for 10 or more years then cash purchase is ALWAYS the lowest cost option.
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  #646  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:29 PM
ntocamping ntocamping is offline
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My situation is a little unique. I work at a company that will buy us a car at 0% finance charge. At the end of the year they deduct 1/2 of the purchase price and we pay this pre-tax out of our year end true up. At the end of the second year they do the same thing. At that point the car is technically mine to sell and keep all the proceeds or just keep driving until I feel like sellingExample, I purchased a 2008 550i last November 2011 for about $37k. Paid 3% sales tax but this was deducted from my income pre tax. Last month I had $18,500 taken out of my year end settlement on a pretax basis. Next yer the same amount will come out and then the car is free and clear to me.

My problem is I get an itch every 2 years to get something different. I have to sell the car and I have the option of offsetting a new/used car I buy with these proceeds or just pocket it and have the new/used car price deducted from my income over the next 2 years (pretax of course). My company said if I decide to lease my lease payments wold also be treated as pre-tax. Therefore, I am seriously debating leasing but I really am doing okay on the purchase since I buy used and sell for equal or more than my net outlay based on the tax savings. Any tips on continuing to buy vs. lease? I don't I d picking up a 1-3 year old car. Remember no interest is charged to me and the purchase price plus TTL all pre-tax. Tks
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  #647  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:39 PM
mynycbimmer mynycbimmer is offline
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I'm old school, buy brand new and plan to keep for 5 years. No leasing, no financing, cash only.
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  #648  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:14 PM
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Kamdog Kamdog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
I'm old school, buy brand new and plan to keep for 5 years. No leasing, no financing, cash only.
My school is older.

I buy new and keep until the car is too much of a problem to keep. I now have a 5 year old 535 and two 9 year old Hondas. I generally average 8 to 10 years before I turn a car over.
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  #649  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:14 PM
hans007 hans007 is offline
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Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
I'm old school, buy brand new and plan to keep for 5 years. No leasing, no financing, cash only.
I'm like this. I always intend to keep at least 4 years but last car didn't follow my own rules and sold after 3 ( car was unreliable) But I financed to get holiday cash. Will pay it off after 3 months on finance
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  #650  
Old 12-06-2012, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
That doesn't happen to me. What happens is I get bored with it. I don't even see the interior anymore.

I've kept the ZHP longer than my previous 3 cars, probably cause it sounds awesome every time I fire it up. Or maybe I'm just getting old.
+1, if a car is worth keeping till the wheels fall off, then the amount of time shouldn't matter.
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