Doesn't Anyone Buy Anymore?

Originally Posted by NewZee

Where will you take delivery, I have stayed at the movenpick hotel in munich near the airport, and there is a BMW delivery point right next door!

I stayed at the Movenpick for 3 weeks while on a work trip in Munich. Man, I miss the breakfast buffet, that was just incredible!

Originally Posted by blueguydotcom

Um... swapalease. Easy way to dump a lease you do not want. I had no trouble off-loading my 2006 330i.

Very true. I have never used swapalease, but from what I have seen only people that actually know how to lease, and got a good lease deal, can swap out their lease easily. I find it interesting to see the range or monthly payments on that site!! I always do a quick search and look at the price range before I lease a new car. It's a good place to see what most are paying for leases assuming not much has changed in the last few years...

Obviously lease down payment changes the price drastically, but most times owners list what they put down.

Originally Posted by westwest888

I buy cars simply because I don't want a car for exactly 1095 days. I may want it for 1200 or 600 or 1500 days. I want a new car when I see it, not when some contract is up. Otherwise you might end up driving the 2nd best car on the road. That's why half of this forum still has 335i and the other half was able to get an S4.

Well, as always you are rambling about the S4. My lease was up last year and I could have leased an S4, or 335i. I ended up the 335i. I wanted a coupe and didn't want the V8 so Audi was at a disadvantage from the start.

To give you a little credit, Audi residuals are set so much lower (compared to BMW and Infinit) it really makes no sense to lease them. So you have to buy an Audi unless you don't mind throwing away money. Even if I did want a plain looking 4 door S4, it would have been $150 more a month. I can tell you the S4 is not worth that delta. The cars are much closer in features, and feel than that. So it was an easy choice for me.

Originally Posted by bayoucity

Has anyone thought about purchasing F30 versus leasing? Since this is a fairly new model & I don't think a significant amount of used F30 will be available until 2015 (3 year old lease return), hence the depreciation won't be too bad.

I posted earlier how my 335d purchase equate to $365 monthly cost = $7,300 / 20 months. I think it might have to do with BMW releasing it only in 2009 & there just aren't that many oil burners available for sales. If you have tier 1 credit & you have the capability to make additional monthly payment (apply to principal), then this shall be the route.

do you mean purchasing as in financing? i applied for an auto loan yesterday, hoping i get approved. i figure for my first new car i won't lease one yet until i know my car buying habits.

Originally Posted by rs123

also could some explain with 36 months is the best for leasing I was always planning to go with 48 months and get a lower payment

A three-year old car still has a year's warranty and free maintenance. Those are big marketing tools. The value drop from three years to four years is disproportionate, and a reflection of this. So you don't really save by leasing for a longer term. On the contrary, over all, you pay more.

Originally Posted by bcl0328

do you mean purchasing as in financing? i applied for an auto loan yesterday, hoping i get approved. i figure for my first new car i won't lease one yet until i know my car buying habits.

Yes sir. As in 60 months or 72 months financing.

I am not sure why there is so much disinformation about buying vs leasing. Owning a car cost money and you can break the cost down to 4 components:

1) depreciation. That is the price we pay for the car - what the car can fetch in a few years. In a lease, car company set the residual (which is the price they will "buy" the car back from us). If we can sell the car more than the residual, the buy camp come out ahead on that count. If the residual is higher than the price that we can sell the car down the road, the lease camp come out ahead

2) finance cost - in lease term it is the money factor. Take the money x 2400 and we will get the rate in % (0.00195 money factor = 4.68%). If someone buy the car with cash, it is the rate that we can make money if we don't use the money to buy the car. If we finance

3) Fee: Lease has a 600 to 800 acquisition cost that buying don't have

4) Tax: Different state has different rule on tax on lease car vs buy. In California, buying pay full tax upfront. Lease only pay tax on the monthly payment. 3 year lease save about 50% of the sales tax.

Once you add the 4 cost together, you know which one cost less. It is not always buying better than lease or lease better than buy. It is car dependent and depending on how we finance it also.

Lease has two advantages: 1) you can write off the lease payment again business income if we have a business and use the car for business. buying can write off part of their purchase price but there is a limit. 2) And all lease car come with a gap insurance. If we total the car during the lease term, all we need to do is to hand the insurance check and can walk away from the lease. Try that if we purchase the car.

I bought and leased cars. Lately I have been leasing more because car manufacturer tends to put incentive in leasing (especially in high residual). Selling used car is a lot of work and you need to account for the time I put in as part of the cost of buying. Buy I would be jumping back to buying in a jiffy if manufacturer put a big cash bonus on purchase only that make the cost of ownership much lower than leasing. In most case, you would find that buying and leasing is at most $1000 different.

Originally Posted by xofruitcake

I am not sure why there is so much disinformation about buying vs leasing. Owning a car cost money and you can break the cost down to 4 components:

1) depreciation. That is the price we pay for the car - what the car can fetch in a few years. In a lease, car company set the residual (which is the price they will "buy" the car back from us). If we can sell the car more than the residual, the buy camp come out ahead on that count. If the residual is higher than the price that we can sell the car down the road, the lease camp come out ahead

2) finance cost - in lease term it is the money factor. Take the money x 2400 and we will get the rate in % (0.00195 money factor = 4.68%). If someone buy the car with cash, it is the rate that we can make money if we don't use the money to buy the car. If we finance

3) Fee: Lease has a 600 to 800 acquisition cost that buying don't have

4) Tax: Different state has different rule on tax on lease car vs buy. In California, buying pay full tax upfront. Lease only pay tax on the monthly payment. 3 year lease save about 50% of the sales tax.

Once you add the 4 cost together, you know which one cost less. It is not always buying better than lease or lease better than buy. It is car dependent and depending on how we finance it also.

Lease has two advantages: 1) you can write off the lease payment again business income if we have a business and use the car for business. buying can write off part of their purchase price but there is a limit. 2) And all lease car come with a gap insurance. If we total the car during the lease term, all we need to do is to hand the insurance check and can walk away from the lease. Try that if we purchase the car.

I bought and leased cars. Lately I have been leasing more because car manufacturer tends to put incentive in leasing (especially in high residual). Selling used car is a lot of work and you need to account for the time I put in as part of the cost of buying. Buy I would be jumping back to buying in a jiffy if manufacturer put a big cash bonus on purchase only that make the cost of ownership much lower than leasing. In most case, you would find that buying and leasing is at most $1000 different.

It is not as clear cut as you make it and it has already been discussed that each has its advantages and disadvantages. You make it sound as though leasing is the only way to go. Read through this thread and you will see that it's split 50/50.

You can't really compare lease vs buy on particular car over 48 month period. Lease will always be worse.
There are always good lease "deals" on some particular car any given month (can be BMW, VW, MB, Infiniti, etc). So if you're looking for a particular car, you might as well buy it.

If you're looking for lease, just look for the best lease that month or maybe wait a little to see if something better pops up.
I don't see how paying less than $400 a month on $42k car with 0 down (only MSD, but that's refundable) is a bad deal.

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

You can't really compare lease vs buy on particular car over 48 month period. Lease will always be worse.
There are always good lease "deals" on some particular car any given month (can be BMW, VW, MB, Infiniti, etc). So if you're looking for a particular car, you might as well buy it.

If you're looking for lease, just look for the best lease that month or maybe wait a little to see if something better pops up.
I don't see how paying less than $400 a month on $42k car with 0 down (only MSD, but that's refundable) is a bad deal.

Thats a hell of a deal...

I'm not even in the market but where is that deal? Is that ED?

Originally Posted by wco81

I'm not even in the market but where is that deal? Is that ED?

Don't want to mislead anyone, my "deal" includes ED discount. I leased the car last June, with one of the 27-month "specials" BMW had going on. At the time 36-month lease on the same car would have at least 10% higher payment.

Without ED discount payment would probably be around $430 a month, which is still very reputable.

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

Don't want to mislead anyone, my "deal" includes ED discount. I leased the car last June, with one of the 27-month "specials" BMW had going on. At the time 36-month lease on the same car would have at least 10% higher payment.

Without ED discount payment would probably be around $430 a month, which is still very reputable.

So your not talking about an F30 then?

Of course if you amortize the trip to Munich ... Plus if you drove around to Switzerland and Italy ...

Originally Posted by justinnum1

So your not talking about an F30 then?

No, the lease was for E90.

P.S.

You can get sub $400 lease on F30 now too (with ED and MSD), just not as loaded.

Originally Posted by wco81

Of course if you amortize the trip to Munich ... Plus if you drove around to Switzerland and Italy ...

True, but most/a lot of us were going to Europe anyway (work-related, honeymoon, etc). And car rentals in Europe are expensive .

It does not make sense to do ED just to get discount, most likely you won't break even, if you were to fly to Munich to pick up the car in the morning and leave in the evening. Unless it's one of those M3 cabrio/ Z4/750AH leases. Still not worth the trouble.

It is not as clear cut as you make it and it has already been discussed that each has its advantages and disadvantages. You make it sound as though leasing is the only way to go. Read through this thread and you will see that it's split 50/50.

I suggested you reread my post or repeat high school English comprehension. Which part of "It is not always buying better than lease or lease better than buy" that you don't understand? I think you are just letting your buy bias cloud your reading. There is nothing wrong with lease or buy. But if manufacturer try to offer incentive for me to lease, I will take the bait. If they decided to reduce my cost for buying a few thousand, I will buy. Right now in my hosuehold we have one purchase car and two lease car. I think that is as even as I can make it with 3 cars.


"Once you add the 4 cost together, you know which one cost less. It is not always buying better than lease or lease better than buy. It is car dependent and depending on how we finance it also."

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Roughly 50% lease and the other half buys. There's no truly fiscally sound reason to lease except for business purchases. Otherwise leasing is really a lifestyle choice.

Just so you know, www.PenFed.org is a first rate credit union. Anyone can join. They have 1.99% financing currently up to 48 months, 2.49% to 60 months. Since they cater to the military they are very familiar with ED financing. Most other lenders are not. They get very nervous about not getting their lien perfected post haste. PenFed understands the process. BMWFS, of course, is the biggest lender for EDs. If you are eligible to join USAA they are also well versed with EDs. Are you a veteran? If so, you are eligible to join USAA. If you are eligible and are not a member I highly suggest joining. No one can touch their auto insurance rates. Their auto financing is usually right in line with PenFed's.

awesome thread here.thanks for this info

Originally Posted by justinnum1

cool, so like CIA?

Originally Posted by palermo22

So, not exactly - but close!

I'm confused, I thought that about the only place State and the Agency intersected was at Embassies, where if you looked at the org chart and could identify a GS-14 Chief of Potable Water (or some other meaningless position), you had also identified the CIA Chief of Station.

Originally Posted by raleedy

Don't trade your car. Sell it for cash. Or use the trade value for MSD payments that you get back at the end of the lease. Money down on a lease is a bad idea because it is all at risk of loss if you crash or have to terminate early.

If you must lease, the use of multiple security deposits is a good strategy.

What do you mean by "I paid for this airplane!"; Falcon 2000s generally go for about $25 mil.

.

Originally Posted by GVFlyer

If you must lease, the use of multiple security deposits is a good strategy.

What do you mean by "I paid for this airplane!"; Falcon 2000s generally go for about $25 mil.

don't agree with this. depending what your credit rating is, in today's economic environment you can get a better return on your money just buy buying a blue chip stock and collecting the dividend, rather than tying up your money for 3 years. if you are doing it for the lower payment then maybe you should be leasing a less expensive car.

This thread should really be stickied because it covers everything very very well in the lease vs buy discussion. At the end of the day, even if you negotiate great leases on cars that are good lease candidates (like 3 series) leasing is always more expensive then buying up-front with cash (new or used) and driving and maintaining the car long term. Reality though is that few people have the stomach to keep a car for 12-15 years... especially high earning professional types!

Originally Posted by windsor027

don't agree with this. depending what your credit rating is, in today's economic environment you can get a better return on your money just buy buying a blue chip stock and collecting the dividend, rather than tying up your money for 3 years. if you are doing it for the lower payment then maybe you should be leasing a less expensive car.

It depends on the stock and the stock market on what positive returns (or losses) you will get as compared to the term period of the lease. Paying cash is always the cheapest option if you have enough savings that it does not dent your ability to still earn adequate returns on your investments (and, you keep a car for 6+ years, or less if you happened to get a great deal and buy a car with a strong resale value).

Aside from a business owners advantage to leasing, younger individuals just starting out in the workplace and those raising families with high demands on their cash flow are probably better off leasing, especially as compared to a loan to buy where the monthly payments are mostly considerably higher by comparison.

In PA, we have to pay 9% sales tax on leasing as compared to 6% sales tax on purchasing. We can also use a trade to lower the purchase price and pay the 6% on the balance.

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

This thread should really be stickied because it covers everything very very well in the lease vs buy discussion. At the end of the day, even if you negotiate great leases on cars that are good lease candidates (like 3 series) leasing is always more expensive then buying up-front with cash (new or used) and driving and maintaining the car long term. Reality though is that few people have the stomach to keep a car for 12-15 years... especially high earning professional types!

I've had mine for 7 years, paid cash for it when it was 18 months old (13k miles), saving like $13k off a new car. It's cost me roughly $3800/year in depreciation and maintenance. Not sure how that compares to leasing.