Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts

BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-24-2012, 02:30 PM
ncbuckeye ncbuckeye is offline
Registered User
Location: North Carolina
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 51
Mein Auto: 335d
When was your first oil change indicated?

So, I'm curious as to when the computer told you to have your oil changed the first time? I'm at close to 6000 miles, and I'm trying to figure out if I should plan an early change on my own. I've researched both sides of the change early vs listen to BMW argument (more than I should have), but I'm still torn on an early change. I called the dealer the other day, just to ask how much it would be for an "in between" oil change, and was told not to worry about it- the car will tell me when it needs changed. She also said that the change is indicated at 13K, but most of their diesels have been coming in around 9-10K, per the computer.

Mine hasn't changed it's mind a bit on the 13K yet- did yours later on?

Thanks!
__________________
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 01-24-2012, 05:48 PM
rmorin49's Avatar
rmorin49 rmorin49 is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Hagerstown, MD,
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,209
Mein Auto: 2011 335d
I changed my oil and filter at 2500 miles at my expense. The OBC didn't indicate an oil change was needed until 13K miles. My driving is about 75% highway so I was not surprised at the 13K mile interval. More stop and go or low speed driving might result in a lower interval.
__________________

Colonel (Ret) US Army / Hagerstown, MD
1985 M635 Euro Alpine White/Pacific Blue (Fun Car)FOR SALE(see ad on BMWCCA website)
2010 Z4 s30i Alpine White/Beige
2013 Audi A6 Ibis White/Nougat (Daily Driver)
2013 Audi A4(Ret)
2011 335d (Ret)
2009 335i vert (Ret)/PCD
2007 335i vert (Ret) ED 04-13-10/PCD
2000 740iL (Ret)
1998 328iC (Ret)
1990 535i (Ret)
1988 635CSi (Ret)

https://plus.google.com/photos/10999...COHGu-rlyIrrLg
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-24-2012, 07:07 PM
4pipes 4pipes is offline
Registered User
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 77
Mein Auto: 2011 335d Alpine White
My first indication came around 8500 miles.
__________________
Previous BMW's:
'79 530i, '93 325iC, '97 740i, '99 540i, '00 M5, '03 X5, '05 645i, '09 335d, '11 335d
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-24-2012, 07:29 PM
KeithS KeithS is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Central NJ
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,651
Mein Auto: '11 335d, '00 540iT
Mine ran out on time. Once the year expires it stops displaying the miles to oil service. As this time I expect to do the 13K miles in a year I was planning on pulling a sample at about 7K miles and send to Blackstone labs to see how it's doing and make my decision from there.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-24-2012, 08:13 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
"Clunker" *****
Location: Columbia MD
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,599
Mein Auto: 1999 BMW 528A--165K
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbuckeye View Post
So, I'm curious as to when the computer told you to have your oil changed the first time? I'm at close to 6000 miles, and I'm trying to figure out if I should plan an early change on my own. I've researched both sides of the change early vs listen to BMW argument (more than I should have), but I'm still torn on an early change. I called the dealer the other day, just to ask how much it would be for an "in between" oil change, and was told not to worry about it- the car will tell me when it needs changed. She also said that the change is indicated at 13K, but most of their diesels have been coming in around 9-10K, per the computer.

Mine hasn't changed it's mind a bit on the 13K yet- did yours later on?

Thanks!
I generally change at about 10K, although the car is not calling for it that early. Many on this forum suggest much earlier, but I don't worry about them. Follow the advice of the manual and your service advisor....or not.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-24-2012, 08:32 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
"Clunker" *****
Location: Columbia MD
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,599
Mein Auto: 1999 BMW 528A--165K
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
I changed my oil and filter at 2500 miles at my expense. The OBC didn't indicate an oil change was needed until 13K miles. My driving is about 75% highway so I was not surprised at the 13K mile interval. More stop and go or low speed driving might result in a lower interval.
Ya think?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-24-2012, 08:51 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
Mine was around 6k miles but it was telling me because it had been 12 months since the car was made.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-25-2012, 07:07 AM
bayoucity's Avatar
bayoucity bayoucity is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,512
Mein Auto: 2011 335d & 2014 535i
My last 2 oil change happened around 11k miles interval.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-25-2012, 07:37 AM
bimmerdiesel's Avatar
bimmerdiesel bimmerdiesel is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bedford MA
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 839
Mein Auto: 335d
last 2 oil changes were around 13k and this time its saying 10k. I do early oil changes around 6k. Its no harm if I change my oil early so why not.
__________________

335d Black Sapphire/Biege/Premium/Sport/Cold/Nav/CA/PDC/iPod

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-25-2012, 07:40 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbuckeye View Post
Mine hasn't changed it's mind a bit on the 13K yet- did yours later on?
My mileage estimate drops like a rock as I approach the 12 month period for an oil change. My guess is it starts dropping 4-5 weeks before it is going to hit the 12 month period. That has been the case for all three of my oil changes.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:48 AM
m6pwr m6pwr is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 292
Mein Auto: '14 335i M Sport
Here is the advice of a lubricants engineer on the topic. He now works for Exxon/Mobil in the area of lubes for heavy duty diesels and formerly worked for Castrol and was part of the team back in the 90's that developed Castrol RS 10w60 that later became the Castrol TWS spec'd by BMW for M cars. Incidentally, I don't think any of you that have used shorter oil change intervals have done any "harm" if that 's the right word to use.

A lubricants engineer's comments on first 335d oil change on factory fill

My email question to the lube engineer:


Something you said in the article (on used oil analysis) piqued my interest:
"Many modern engines have unique lubricants as their Factory fill and in some cases a special specification lubricant many be needed for the first 10k miles or so. This is for specific "bedding in" reasons and often depends on the engine's design and certainly on its "wear face" metallurgy! People that chose to ignore the Manufacturer's advice concerning the first oil change period and the lubricant to be used then are IMO quite foolhardy especially if they intend to keep their vehicle for many years."

I have a new 2011 BMW 335d diesel. In the past, I've always changed the factory fill on my BMWs at about 1500 mi. I guess I got into this habit due to owning several different BMW M cars down thru the years (BMW always does a first oil change on M cars at 1500 mi). But, I am wondering if this would be appropriate on the 335d. BMW doesn't do an oil change (under their free maintenance program) until 10k-13k mi. I believe the factory fill on the 335d is a FUCHS oil similar to their Titan GT1 Pro Flex 5w30. I've noticed on several UOAs on BITOG from 335d owners, on the factory fill, that the oil has no zinc, which is a trademark of sorts on the FUCHS GT1 for diesels.

I know FUCHS makes good oils (and seems to specialize in factory fills) and I'm wondering, after reading your article, if I ought to delay replacing it, maybe even take it as far as BMW's 10-13k OCI. I have 2k mi on my 335d right now and was planning on doing an oil change at 3k mi (to wash out some of the wear metals) and then at about 5k mi OCIs thereafter. The service fill that BMW uses (I'm in the U.S.) is Castrol SLX Professional OE 5w30.

Any advice you can give would be appreciated.

The lube engineer's response:

thanks for the email

It is best to follow the OEM's recommendation for the first OC. In your case - for peace of mind - I would go to around 9-10k

Recently a new engine in my Fleet required a 1kkms (600miles) oil and filter change. A waste? yes, but I know that the FF is a cheap Grp 2 product used for that purpose and that's the OEM's reason!

The service fill you allude to and FUCHS lubricants are top of the line products. FUCHS is the (part) FF for Daimler AG and for a number of others too. Their OEM Approved and Listed products are excellent for their intended task

FF lubricants can include special additives that are targeted to allow a trouble free and programmed pace of "bedding in". This is a product of the engine development process - it is the same for Heavy Truck engines too of course. These lubricants typically cannot be purchased at consumer level

BMW use at least two engine development organisations in Germany that conduct exhaustive field testing of components and lubricants. Sadly I can't divulge who they are but at least one of their Engineers is an ex Development Engineer from Daimler AG. He is a very skilled guy and I have spent quite a bit of time with him and the FUCHS and Castrol Lube Engineers

Enjoy your 335d and don't be too alarmed if some fuel dilution appears in your UOAs - within reason all parties are aware of this. OCIs are programmed around all of this data

I'm just about to leave for two months in Europe - and the Goodwood Revival in particular. It is Juan Manuel Fangio's memorial year - Mercedes will be their hence my visit - and a celebration of 70 years of the Spitfire! Goodwood was a WW2 Spitfire airfield
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-25-2012, 11:11 AM
ncbuckeye ncbuckeye is offline
Registered User
Location: North Carolina
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 51
Mein Auto: 335d
Thanks m6pwr for this informative post. I've always been curious of an expert's opinion on the matter.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-25-2012, 12:40 PM
831Doug 831Doug is offline
Registered User
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 76
Mein Auto: 335d
I got a call from the dealer before the car told me it was due for service. I think at about 6k miles.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-26-2012, 06:59 PM
ncbuckeye ncbuckeye is offline
Registered User
Location: North Carolina
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 51
Mein Auto: 335d
Update- Not so easy Mityvac story

I decided to do an intermediate change on my own. It wasn't as simple as I thought it should've been. I bought a Mityvac 7400 (first extraction- I've done many the "old" way). I wasn't sure which diameter of tubing to use, and since they both fit easily, I decided to use the biggest tubing. When I inserted the tubing, I pushed it in until I felt definite resistance. A couple pumps, and the oil was flowing- great! I waited there and at about 3 quarts it started spitting. Everything looked fine, so I figured the tube wasn't in far enough. I pushed past the resistance, and it did go in a good bit further. When I tried the pump again, it still was sputtering. What happened next really freaked me out. I tried to pull out the tube, and it wouldn't come out- it felt like it was hung up on something. I pulled very hard and it finally gave loose, but I really had to pull. When the tube came all the way out, there was a cut into the tube in two places, one was pretty deep, the other dented. I replaced this tube with the smaller diameter tube and never felt any resistance. I was able to get the rest out with the smaller tubing w/ no trouble.

Has this happened to anyone else?? Is there some kind of flap near the oil pan that the tubing was caught in?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-26-2012, 08:39 PM
831Doug 831Doug is offline
Registered User
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 76
Mein Auto: 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbuckeye View Post
I decided to do an intermediate change on my own. It wasn't as simple as I thought it should've been. I bought a Mityvac 7400 (first extraction- I've done many the "old" way). I wasn't sure which diameter of tubing to use, and since they both fit easily, I decided to use the biggest tubing. When I inserted the tubing, I pushed it in until I felt definite resistance. A couple pumps, and the oil was flowing- great! I waited there and at about 3 quarts it started spitting. Everything looked fine, so I figured the tube wasn't in far enough. I pushed past the resistance, and it did go in a good bit further. When I tried the pump again, it still was sputtering. What happened next really freaked me out. I tried to pull out the tube, and it wouldn't come out- it felt like it was hung up on something. I pulled very hard and it finally gave loose, but I really had to pull. When the tube came all the way out, there was a cut into the tube in two places, one was pretty deep, the other dented. I replaced this tube with the smaller diameter tube and never felt any resistance. I was able to get the rest out with the smaller tubing w/ no trouble.

Has this happened to anyone else?? Is there some kind of flap near the oil pan that the tubing was caught in?
Why did you decide to do an interim oil change?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-27-2012, 07:03 AM
ncbuckeye ncbuckeye is offline
Registered User
Location: North Carolina
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 51
Mein Auto: 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
Its no harm if I change my oil early so why not.
This is how I feel, after spending way too much time reviewing the pros and cons of intermediate changes. I plan on sending a sample to Blackstone to have the oil analyzed.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-27-2012, 07:24 AM
KeithS KeithS is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Central NJ
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,651
Mein Auto: '11 335d, '00 540iT
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbuckeye View Post
This is how I feel, after spending way too much time reviewing the pros and cons of intermediate changes. I plan on sending a sample to Blackstone to have the oil analyzed.
Exactly what I was going to do. Change the oil at 6500 miles and send to Blackstone. I'm just uncomfortable going 13K miles between changes.

So far I've had lots of oil changes. At 7500 miles when the car was first offered for sale by the dealer (was a service loaner, they did not reset anything). Then at 9200 miles because it time expired. Now that is driven regularly will be in more of a normal pattern. Expect to be doing more than 13K miles a year so will be by mileage, not time.

On all my gas BMWs, as a generally conservative driver, I was able to go much longer than initially indicated by the OBC, usually out to 16K-17K miles (was still changing oil in between). But on the d, it seems to track right at 13K miles, have not seen any variance due to driving conditions/style. Has anyone experienced otherwise?

Last edited by KeithS; 02-27-2012 at 07:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-27-2012, 07:35 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
Wouldn't an early oil change be a potentionaly long term bad thing if BMW actually used some sort of break in oil or additive? Hasn't some of the Blackstone reports speculated that a break in oil was used by the factory? Just playing devils advocate because I don't think it really matters if you do an early or not.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-27-2012, 07:50 AM
KeithS KeithS is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Central NJ
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,651
Mein Auto: '11 335d, '00 540iT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
Wouldn't an early oil change be a potentionaly long term bad thing if BMW actually used some sort of break in oil or additive? Hasn't some of the Blackstone reports speculated that a break in oil was used by the factory? Just playing devils advocate because I don't think it really matters if you do an early or not.
Believe this discussion is more around long term oil change philosphy, not just the first oil change. There is no hard evidence to indicate anything other than the regular dealer supplied oil is used even from the factory. Think the question is about the removal of Zinc from the oil. As i understand it this is more important to long term wear than initial break-in.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-27-2012, 08:06 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithS View Post
Believe this discussion is more around long term oil change philosphy, not just the first oil change. There is no hard evidence to indicate anything other than the regular dealer supplied oil is used even from the factory. Think the question is about the removal of Zinc from the oil. As i understand it this is more important to long term wear than initial break-in.
Well the thread is about when was the first oil change was indicated and comments are morphing to about when people did it earlier than indicated. I'd think if BMW actually did use a different oil and/or additive for initial break in that it could possibly matter if that was drained out prematurely to put in what is called for after that initial fill. BUT I am not trying to say they actually do use anything different initially or if they do that they do it for any sort of break in purposes. I am just simply trying to play devils advocate on it because really never will know for certain what they dump into it at the factory. Just trying to offer some food for thought for people perhaps on the fense to do it early or just trust what the factory says. I personally don't think it matters either way and people should just do them whenever it makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside about their decision.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-27-2012, 09:36 AM
m6pwr m6pwr is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 292
Mein Auto: '14 335i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithS View Post
Believe this discussion is more around long term oil change philosphy, not just the first oil change. There is no hard evidence to indicate anything other than the regular dealer supplied oil is used even from the factory. Think the question is about the removal of Zinc from the oil. As i understand it this is more important to long term wear than initial break-in.
Here is the oil that is probably pretty close (maybe identical) to the oil that BMW fills the 335d with at the factory -
http://www.thedieselstore.com/templa...VehNum=1117792

FUCHS is and always has been at the leading edge of lube development. They did much of the original research into synthetic ester-based oils back in Germany in the thirties when everyone else was refining what got pumped out of the ground.

The trend in engine oils (int. lube stds amd oem stds in Europe) is toward cleaner oils, less "additized oils" - - oils that leave fewer deposits in direct injection and turbo charged engines (e.g N54 and M57), and in emission control systems. The elimination of zinc (as well as a reduction in a lot of other additives) from the FUCHS oil is an indication of that. Zinc is the "carrier" for phosphorous which is the element that does the actual anti-wear work. Evidently FUCHS has figured out how to keep the phosphorous in solution without the zinc which along with other additives forms the unwanted deposits.

I'm like a lot of other folks on this forum who have been conditioned (almost since birth it would seem) to believe that frequent oil changes are the holy grail. Times change. Technology changes. The lube engineers have seen data that shows a lube oil can be made that actually improves it lubricating qualities the longer its been in service in the engine. This is a paradigm shift like the move from a geocentric to heliocentric solar system.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-27-2012, 10:09 AM
ncbuckeye ncbuckeye is offline
Registered User
Location: North Carolina
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 51
Mein Auto: 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
I personally don't think it matters either way and people should just do them whenever it makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside about their decision.
This is what it came down to with me- it made me feel better so I did it. I tried to collect as much "data" pro/con, and decided to err on the side of changing. My opinion may change on this from the analysis...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-27-2012, 10:19 AM
KeithS KeithS is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Central NJ
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,651
Mein Auto: '11 335d, '00 540iT
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbuckeye View Post
This is what it came down to with me- it made me feel better so I did it. I tried to collect as much "data" pro/con, and decided to err on the side of changing. My opinion may change on this from the analysis...
My concern in going the full distance is not so much the lubrication aspects, but the sludging. I have seen plenty of BMW's with oil changed at the OBC intervals that had horrendous amount of crud built up in the valve train. While I do not have the statistics to back it up, these cars were probably often driven short distances. And with high speed delicate turbo bearings and seals to worry about, another vote for cleaner is better.

I always pull this one out when having this discussion. My '00 328i, 140K miles, BMW synthetic changed at half the OBC indication (approx every 8K miles) it's whole life. Nothing was cleaned for this picture (VC gaskets still stuck to head)


Last edited by KeithS; 02-27-2012 at 10:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-27-2012, 10:23 AM
62Lincoln's Avatar
62Lincoln 62Lincoln is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Home
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 466
Mein Auto: 335d
Just in case the conversation veers down this path, the d does not use break in oil.

From "BMW Operating Fluids" dated October 2010:

Quote:
BMW engines do not require special break-in oils.
All of the multiple grade engine oils can be used, as long as they conform with BMW specifications.
The article also mentions the exception of the M engine, which I think is technically regarded internally as an "M" engine, versus a 'regular' BMW engine.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-27-2012, 11:10 AM
m6pwr m6pwr is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 292
Mein Auto: '14 335i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62Lincoln View Post
Just in case the conversation veers down this path, the d does not use break in oil.

From "BMW Operating Fluids" dated October 2010:



The article also mentions the exception of the M engine, which I think is technically regarded internally as an "M" engine, versus a 'regular' BMW engine.
Good to know. Do you have a link? Does this come from an owner's manual, BMW web site, TIS?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms