Mixed feelings after 2012 35d test-drive

Originally Posted by serge1

We might get the 40d in US by then, and I seriously doubt the weight difference of Cayenne will help it outmaneuver 40d in the corners. We are talking about huge difference in acceleration.

The Cayenne weighs significantly less than the E70 now. Going by BMW's recent track record of new cars actually weighing more than their predecessor, I bet the next X5 won't be light.

On second thought, the Cayenne diesel will probably cost as much as //M diesel anyways. No chances there for Cayenne.

You pay for superior build quality, driving dynamics, technology, service, and badge. I don't see any issue here.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

You pay for superior build quality, driving dynamics, technology, service, and badge. I don't see any issue here.

Which is why i bought 35d.
But Porsche shouldn't release a vehicle with 7.5sec to 60. That's Toyota Sienna range.

Originally Posted by serge1

Which is why i bought 35d.
But Porsche shouldn't release a vehicle with 7.5sec to 60. That's Toyota Sienna range.

Because speed is everything right? If it really was, then we should all go out and buy Mustang GTs for $30k.

The VAG 3.0TDI engine is smoother, quieter, and has less turbo lag than the M57 BMW unit. BMW does have more power and torque, but it sounds like a truck. Both get similar mpg.

Every car has its downsides.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Because speed is everything right? If it really was, then we should all go out and buy Mustang GTs for $30k.

The VAG 3.0TDI engine is smoother, quieter, and has less turbo lag than the M57 BMW unit. BMW does have more power and torque, but it sounds like a truck. Both get similar mpg.

Every car has its downsides.

I don't think it's reasonable to compare across categories and types of vehicles.
In our case, we should compare diesel SUVs only.
Contenders will be X5, T-reg, Q7, ML and Cayenne (assuming).
Every single review out there will compare those, and it would suck for the Cayenne drivers to have the most expensive and slowest of those.

ML and T-reg can afford to be slower.
Porsche has to be as fast or equal to X5, always. Because it's Porsche.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

The Cayenne weighs significantly less than the E70 now. Going by BMW's recent track record of new cars actually weighing more than their predecessor, I bet the next X5 won't be light.



You pay for superior build quality, driving dynamics, technology, service, and badge. I don't see any issue here.

I'll bet the new X5 (F15, in case you haven't heard) will be a couple hundred pounds lighter than our current E70 models. BMW is determined to stop the weight gain on its future models.

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

I'll bet the new X5 (F15, in case you haven't heard) will be a couple hundred pounds lighter than our current E70 models. BMW is determined to stop the weight gain on its future models.

- Mike

Hopefully, this turns out to be true. I know the next gen Q7 is getting a huge weight reduction and if the Cayenne gets the diesel soon, I don't know what to replace the E70 with

The Tourag is the Cayenne with a lesser interior, same chassis and engine, different name plate like GMC Denali and Chevy. And the Audi interiors suck, the seats are plain junk, the BMW multi contours blow them away. The small NAV screen in the Audi is terrible, not to mention the cheap looking aluminum surrounding it.
The other thing you have to consider in price points is the 5 year Cost of Ownership, which BMW wins against all. I have the US spec X5d here in Germany, and many of the 40d owners wish they still had the M57 and 6 speed. It is a proven combo, and the new stuff still has a lot of bugs in it. Although the increased milage is nice, it isn't necessary when talking a few more mpg and 60K vehicles.
Also comparing the RPM range of a diesel to any gas powered vehicle show the OP's absolute lack of auto knowledge.

I would also like to point out the the driver of the Porsche diesel driver, that I have had my X5d at over 150mph on the autobahn...Porsche is far from alone on this. My X5d out runs the Porsche Cayenne Ds here, so not anything to get excited about. But the interior is much nicer.

Originally Posted by docpowell

The Tourag is the Cayenne with a lesser interior, same chassis and engine, different name plate like GMC Denali and Chevy. And the Audi interiors suck, the seats are plain junk, the BMW multi contours blow them away. The small NAV screen in the Audi is terrible, not to mention the cheap looking aluminum surrounding it.
The other thing you have to consider in price points is the 5 year Cost of Ownership, which BMW wins against all. I have the US spec X5d here in Germany, and many of the 40d owners wish they still had the M57 and 6 speed. It is a proven combo, and the new stuff still has a lot of bugs in it. Although the increased milage is nice, it isn't necessary when talking a few more mpg and 60K vehicles.
Also comparing the RPM range of a diesel to any gas powered vehicle show the OP's absolute lack of auto knowledge.

It is much, much more than that. The chassis of the Porsche utilizes a lot of aluminum where the Volkswagen retains steel. Look at the curb weights:

BMW xDrive 35d = 5,192 pounds
VW Touareg TDI = 4,974 pounds
Porsche Cayenne V6 = 4,475 pounds

Originally Posted by docpowell

I would also like to point out the the driver of the Porsche diesel driver, that I have had my X5d at over 150mph on the autobahn...Porsche is far from alone on this. My X5d out runs the Porsche Cayenne Ds here, so not anything to get excited about. But the interior is much nicer.

Nobody in the States has driven the Cayenne diesel. My point had nothing to do with speed, but rather the capability of the platform.

- Mike

https://my.porsche.com/international...BYT&nomobile=0
can always wait for this

video is stupid just look at pick on the right

Originally Posted by docpowell

I have the US spec X5d here in Germany, and many of the 40d owners wish they still had the M57 and 6 speed. It is a proven combo, and the new stuff still has a lot of bugs in it. Although the increased milage is nice, it isn't necessary when talking a few more mpg and 60K vehicles.

Have you driven the 40d for reasonably long time to have a good comparison with 35d?
Half of us on the forum here are drooling over the 40d, which USA doesn't have. But all we have to compare are the official numbers (acceleration, torque, MPG).
But you don't seem very impressed with the 40d compared to 35d. Perhaps you know something we dont...
If you have a good comparison, perhaps you can start a new thread about it. Call it "grass is greener on the other side" or something

Originally Posted by docpowell

I would also like to point out the the driver of the Porsche diesel driver, that I have had my X5d at over 150mph on the autobahn...Porsche is far from alone on this. My X5d out runs the Porsche Cayenne Ds here, so not anything to get excited about. But the interior is much nicer.

The Porsche Cayenne D will be getting the newest version of the VAG diesel, this time with the TT V6, when it comes to the US. It is supposed to be released with the next gen Q7 and Q5 TDI.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=598158

So yes, it will be lighter than the E70 and be considerably faster

Originally Posted by docpowell

The Tourag is the Cayenne with a lesser interior, same chassis and engine, different name plate like GMC Denali and Chevy. And the Audi interiors suck, the seats are plain junk, the BMW multi contours blow them away. The small NAV screen in the Audi is terrible, not to mention the cheap looking aluminum surrounding it.
Also comparing the RPM range of a diesel to any gas powered vehicle show the OP's absolute lack of auto knowledge.

It's funny how you make fun of OP's lack of auto knowledge because you seem clueless just like OP.

The Touareg has a fantastic interior, arguably better than the X5. Higher quality in every possible way. Only downside is the seats, which BMW does better, that's it.

and who says Audi interiors suck? They are almost always best in class. I've owned a Q7 and it's interior is better than the X5 in every possible way. And no, those seats aren't junk. I've taken multiple long road trips in them and they are comfortable. The "cheap looking" aluminum beats whatever cheap plastic that covers the whole center console in the X5.

And no, the Touareg, Cayenne, and Q7 don't necessarily use the same chassis. The Cayenne has more use of aluminum, so it is lighter. The Q7 has a longer version of the same chassis. The Cayenne and Touareg use the same 4XMOTION system (except you can upgrade the Cayenne's to include PTV, and such) and the Q7 uses a Torsen Borgwarner AWD system. And the Cayenne and Treg barely share engines, except the same hybrid setup. The base VR6s might look the same, but the Porsche version is retuned to give 300hp versus the 280 hp the Treg makes.

Saying that the Cayenne/Touareg/Q7 are like a Denali and Chevy is as dumb as it gets and shows your BMW fanboism and lack of knowledge into the matter.

Originally Posted by docpowell

Also comparing the RPM range of a diesel to any gas powered vehicle show the OP's absolute lack of auto knowledge.

What makes you say that? I re-read my post and could not see where I went wrong.

AFAIK, diesels kick in quite early on in RMP range - small diesel I have driven before (1.9 turbo D Ford Focus) would experience a rocket boost from about 1700 to 2500 RPM, then I up-shifted. I loved driving it, the push was quite amazing and fun. Typical gasoline engine would 'explode' way higher, say 3-4k.

That's my auto knowledge - and experience.

Now I drive a 535i F10 which pleasantly kicks in early on - just like diesel would - I get a nice push into the seat from about 2k RPM - I attribute this high torque early on to the twin turbo - otherwise, I'd be staring at 3-4k RPM before feeling anything.

Hence my slight disappointment with 35d. To my great amazement, I frequently saw tach reaching 3500RPM without feeling much in terms of push - yes, the speed grew I know - but it was kinda boring. Why, though would there be no sudden neck-breaking rush at 2k RPM - that's what I really was expecting. Why would I need to see 3500RPM to begin with?? Too much mass? Maybe I need to drive one once again, I don't know. But whereas my F10 with much lower torque (300ft-lbs) and still some weight, makes acceleration quite apparent (maybe due to its new shorter-geared 8sp), 425 ft-lbs in 35d was somehow invisible when I was looking for it. Perhaps the giant weight of 35d was to blame....?

I presume towing a boat and 4 bikes on the tongue would make the monster sure come out. He was sleeping in the city.

.

OP, try sport mode. I was driving around today and it kicks in about 1600-2k rpm and takes off.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

The Porsche Cayenne D will be getting the newest version of the VAG diesel, this time with the TT V6, when it comes to the US. It is supposed to be released with the next gen Q7 and Q5 TDI.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=598158

So yes, it will be lighter than the E70 and be considerably faster

Interesting info. Thanks.

Originally Posted by serge1

Interesting info. Thanks.

+1 Good to know (I learned something.)

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

+1 Good to know (I learned something.)

- Mike

This new engine is interesting, but I don't think it will have the quoted 309 hp from the EU market because the US market requires the urea/SCR system that does seep power from the engine. For example, the M57 makes more power overseas too, in EU spec BMWs. Hopefully, it will be about ~300 hp and have all that torque.

It's also a departure from VAG's current reluctance to offer a twin turbo V6 in the US market because the current 3.0TDI is a single turbo unit.

What we do know is that BMW does need to step it up and bring the 40d in the next gen X5 or this new engine going into the next gen Q7 will embarrass BMW.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

OP, try sport mode. I was driving around today and it kicks in about 1600-2k rpm and takes off.

Or better yet test drive a 35i. I'd trade the diesel torque (which I wasn't seeing much of in town) for gasoline boost at 4k. My 535i rips it hard from that point on. So would 35i, I gather.

Not that great for towing but might be a lot more fun around town, perhaps?

Originally Posted by yogi799

Or better yet test drive a 35i. I'd trade the diesel torque (which I wasn't seeing much of in town) for gasoline boost at 4k. My 535i rips it hard from that point on. So would 35i, I gather.

Not that great for towing but might be a lot more fun around town, perhaps?

The 35i will be more responsive around town, just by design of its turbocharged gasoline powerplant. A diesel is designed for high torque and efficiency at a constant speed.

- Mike

Yeah, X5d is heavy... 800lbs more than '03 MDX. Damn.... No wonder it felt like that, plus heavy steering and a truck-ish motor.

What Edmunds Says

When it comes to luxury crossover SUVs, the 2011 BMW X5 is a standard-bearer in terms of handling and performance. However, it comes up a bit short on utility and value when stacked up against the competition.

Pros

Athletic handling, potent and efficient engines, luxurious and comfortable interior, huge list of features, steadfast high-speed stability.

Cons

Standard steering is stiff at low speeds, ride may be firm for some, hefty price.

Funny, having read that only now, my gripes about 35d seem just about right...

Originally Posted by docpowell

I would also like to point out the the driver of the Porsche diesel driver, that I have had my X5d at over 150mph on the autobahn...Porsche is far from alone on this. My X5d out runs the Porsche Cayenne Ds here, so not anything to get excited about. But the interior is much nicer.

Sadly ours are electronically limited to 215 km/hr over here....so I've been told.

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Sadly ours are electronically limited to 215 km/hr over here....so I've been told.

Ours are limited to 150 mph down here.

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

Ours are limited to 150 mph down here.

- Mike

Boooooo!

It actually says they're limited to 210 which sounds about right with speedo error factored in. Still faster than the 190 that the ML is held back to.

I don't know where I could find enough real estate to bring an X5 35d to 150 mph around here. It would accelerate so slowly above 125 mph... you would need about 3 miles. Yikes.

- Mike