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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #101  
Old 02-17-2012, 07:27 AM
docpowell docpowell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
It's funny how you make fun of OP's lack of auto knowledge because you seem clueless just like OP.

The Touareg has a fantastic interior, arguably better than the X5. Higher quality in every possible way. Only downside is the seats, which BMW does better, that's it.

and who says Audi interiors suck? They are almost always best in class. I've owned a Q7 and it's interior is better than the X5 in every possible way. And no, those seats aren't junk. I've taken multiple long road trips in them and they are comfortable. The "cheap looking" aluminum beats whatever cheap plastic that covers the whole center console in the X5.

And no, the Touareg, Cayenne, and Q7 don't necessarily use the same chassis. The Cayenne has more use of aluminum, so it is lighter. The Q7 has a longer version of the same chassis. The Cayenne and Touareg use the same 4XMOTION system (except you can upgrade the Cayenne's to include PTV, and such) and the Q7 uses a Torsen Borgwarner AWD system. And the Cayenne and Treg barely share engines, except the same hybrid setup. The base VR6s might look the same, but the Porsche version is retuned to give 300hp versus the 280 hp the Treg makes.

Saying that the Cayenne/Touareg/Q7 are like a Denali and Chevy is as dumb as it gets and shows your BMW fanboism and lack of knowledge into the matter.
Autounion,

Never did I say that the Q7 shared a chassis with the Tourag or Cayenne. Re-read. So a majority of your rant is pointless. And if you can get away from your fanboy comments and do some reading from the article that YOU posted and a little beyond, you will find out that the engine you referenced has not been slated to be placed in anything other than the cars mentioned in the article, and only to the UK and European markets, and it will not at this time be coming to the US. Otherwise, I would have bought the Q7 V-12 TDI. There are a number of vehicles here in Europe that will not come to the US because of restrictions on emissions and other financial reasons. The Porsche will be release here with the same 225hp 3.0 V6 TDI that is already available in the US.
And the Denali-Chevy comment is a comparison for illustration purposes only for people that are only familiar with common US vehicles like yourself, that have a severe lack of knowledge into these matters. So I was expressing an opinion based on fact that the VW and Porsche share DNA across the board, there are differences, or course, but you are paying a lot more for very similar products.
So lesson one for you is to learn how to read before incorrectly attempting to educate someone else. No Q7 chassis comment, and the engine you reference is NOT coming to the US for Audi, VW or Porsche
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  #102  
Old 02-17-2012, 07:33 AM
docpowell docpowell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission View Post
It is much, much more than that. The chassis of the Porsche utilizes a lot of aluminum where the Volkswagen retains steel. Look at the curb weights:

BMW xDrive 35d = 5,192 pounds
VW Touareg TDI = 4,974 pounds
Porsche Cayenne V6 = 4,475 pounds



Nobody in the States has driven the Cayenne diesel. My point had nothing to do with speed, but rather the capability of the platform.

- Mike
Again, comparing the weight of a diesel vehicle to a gas vehicle is not an equal comparison. I will give you that the Porsche is lighter with the use of the aluminum, but the 35i is also lighter of than the 35d. The Porsche Diesel will weigh more than the the Porsche V6, but still be lighter than the 35d. The European weighs in at 2175kg or 4785 lbs.
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  #103  
Old 02-17-2012, 07:38 AM
docpowell docpowell is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
The Porsche Cayenne D will be getting the newest version of the VAG diesel, this time with the TT V6, when it comes to the US. It is supposed to be released with the next gen Q7 and Q5 TDI.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=598158

So yes, it will be lighter than the E70 and be considerably faster
The Porsche diesel is expected to be released this year. (2012, maybe as a 2013 model however due to CARB delays...like we saw with the 12 x5d.) And the engine is the same as the VW and Audi. It is not the new engine. Even Europe doesn't have this new engine yet, so you are again misinformed.
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  #104  
Old 02-17-2012, 07:51 AM
docpowell docpowell is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
This new engine is interesting, but I don't think it will have the quoted 309 hp from the EU market because the US market requires the urea/SCR system that does seep power from the engine. For example, the M57 makes more power overseas too, in EU spec BMWs. Hopefully, it will be about ~300 hp and have all that torque.

It's also a departure from VAG's current reluctance to offer a twin turbo V6 in the US market because the current 3.0TDI is a single turbo unit.

What we do know is that BMW does need to step it up and bring the 40d in the next gen X5 or this new engine going into the next gen Q7 will embarrass BMW.
Once again Autounion you are misinformed. The EU market uses the N57 engines, not the older M57s, which is the basis behind my previous comment. That some drivers of the 40d here prefer the older engine because of its proven track record, whereas the new engine and transmission still have a number of issues with them. But once they are fixed, it will be a better option.
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  #105  
Old 02-17-2012, 08:49 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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So doc, the new VAG BiTDI V6 309/480 will not be coming to our shores wrapped in a Cayenne. Too bad, that would have been a sweet combination.
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  #106  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:29 AM
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kanar200 kanar200 is offline
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[QUOTE=docpowell;6638199]Once again Autounion you are misinformed. The EU market uses the N57 engines, not the older M57s, which is the basis behind my previous comment. (...)[QUOTE]

but he is right that M57 EU spec makes more power (289 hp vs 265 hp in the US)
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  #107  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:46 AM
docpowell docpowell is offline
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[QUOTE=kanar200;6638507][QUOTE=docpowell;6638199]Once again Autounion you are misinformed. The EU market uses the N57 engines, not the older M57s, which is the basis behind my previous comment. (...)
Quote:

but he is right that M57 EU spec makes more power (289 hp vs 265 hp in the US)
that is correct. no dispute about that.
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  #108  
Old 02-17-2012, 12:10 PM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docpowell View Post
Once again Autounion you are misinformed. The EU market uses the N57 engines, not the older M57s, which is the basis behind my previous comment. That some drivers of the 40d here prefer the older engine because of its proven track record, whereas the new engine and transmission still have a number of issues with them. But once they are fixed, it will be a better option.
No, you are wrong. They still use the M57 in various cars in the BMW lineup in Europe, and they make more power over there due to the lack of the urea system
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  #109  
Old 02-17-2012, 12:17 PM
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kanar200 kanar200 is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
No, you are wrong. They still use the M57 in various cars in the BMW lineup in Europe, and they make more power over there due to the lack of the urea system
Where? as far as I know M57 does not meet current EURO norm

also, as far as I know, it is possible to order blueperformance feature to 40d and it has the same power as version without the feature
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  #110  
Old 02-17-2012, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
No, you are wrong. They still use the M57 in various cars in the BMW lineup in Europe, and they make more power over there due to the lack of the urea system
Guys, let's move on to something bigger and better please.

Euro X5 40d uses N57
US X5 uses M57

and yes there were older BMW's that used the M57.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N57

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M57
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  #111  
Old 02-17-2012, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post
Where? as far as I know M57 does not meet current EURO norm

also, as far as I know, it is possible to order blueperformance feature to 40d and it has the same power as version without the feature
EU market X6 35d still has M57 according to the wiki page. 30d and 40d use N57
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  #112  
Old 02-17-2012, 02:22 PM
docpowell docpowell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim E. View Post
Guys, let's move on to something bigger and better please.

Euro X5 40d uses N57
US X5 uses M57

and yes there were older BMW's that used the M57.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N57

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M57
yes, the M57 was used here before
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  #113  
Old 02-17-2012, 07:02 PM
bubear99 bubear99 is offline
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As for those talking top speed, mine cuts out at about 133 MPH. The route to one of my offices has a stretch that's a straight shot for 2-3 miles with no traffic.
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  #114  
Old 02-17-2012, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bubear99 View Post
As for those talking top speed, mine cuts out at about 133 MPH. The route to one of my offices has a stretch that's a straight shot for 2-3 miles with no traffic.
If you had the sport package (ZAP) and the 20" wheel option then your top speed would have been increased to 150. Otherwise you are topped out at 130.

Just an FYI.
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  #115  
Old 02-18-2012, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
What makes you say that? I re-read my post and could not see where I went wrong.

AFAIK, diesels kick in quite early on in RMP range - small diesel I have driven before (1.9 turbo D Ford Focus) would experience a rocket boost from about 1700 to 2500 RPM, then I up-shifted. I loved driving it, the push was quite amazing and fun. Typical gasoline engine would 'explode' way higher, say 3-4k.

That's my auto knowledge - and experience.

Now I drive a 535i F10 which pleasantly kicks in early on - just like diesel would - I get a nice push into the seat from about 2k RPM - I attribute this high torque early on to the twin turbo - otherwise, I'd be staring at 3-4k RPM before feeling anything.

Hence my slight disappointment with 35d. To my great amazement, I frequently saw tach reaching 3500RPM without feeling much in terms of push - yes, the speed grew I know - but it was kinda boring. Why, though would there be no sudden neck-breaking rush at 2k RPM - that's what I really was expecting. Why would I need to see 3500RPM to begin with?? Too much mass? Maybe I need to drive one once again, I don't know. But whereas my F10 with much lower torque (300ft-lbs) and still some weight, makes acceleration quite apparent (maybe due to its new shorter-geared 8sp), 425 ft-lbs in 35d was somehow invisible when I was looking for it. Perhaps the giant weight of 35d was to blame....?

I presume towing a boat and 4 bikes on the tongue would make the monster sure come out. He was sleeping in the city.

.
I think this calls for me to make a new youtube video...
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  #116  
Old 02-27-2012, 09:44 PM
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serge1 serge1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stussy109 View Post
I think this calls for me to make a new youtube video...
Where's the video>
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  #117  
Old 02-28-2012, 09:18 AM
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1HOT BMR 1HOT BMR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
AFAIK, diesels kick in quite early on in RMP range - small diesel I have driven before (1.9 turbo D Ford Focus) would experience a rocket boost from about 1700 to 2500 RPM, then I up-shifted. I loved driving it, the push was quite amazing and fun. Typical gasoline engine would 'explode' way higher, say 3-4k.

That's my auto knowledge - and experience.

Now I drive a 535i F10 which pleasantly kicks in early on - just like diesel would - I get a nice push into the seat from about 2k RPM - I attribute this high torque early on to the twin turbo - otherwise, I'd be staring at 3-4k RPM before feeling anything.

Hence my slight disappointment with 35d. To my great amazement, I frequently saw tach reaching 3500RPM without feeling much in terms of push - yes, the speed grew I know - but it was kinda boring. Why, though would there be no sudden neck-breaking rush at 2k RPM - that's what I really was expecting. Why would I need to see 3500RPM to begin with?? Too much mass? Maybe I need to drive one once again, I don't know. But whereas my F10 with much lower torque (300ft-lbs) and still some weight, makes acceleration quite apparent (maybe due to its new shorter-geared 8sp), 425 ft-lbs in 35d was somehow invisible when I was looking for it. Perhaps the giant weight of 35d was to blame....?

I presume towing a boat and 4 bikes on the tongue would make the monster sure come out. He was sleeping in the city.

.
I know exactly what you mean and IMO they are all valid points. I felt the same when I first test drove the X5d: Where is the rocket like acceleration that I experienced when driving my wife's VW TDI? It's a heavier car and I don't think it will ever feel as quick as the TDI . . .BUT . . put the tranny in DS and you will experience a much stronger although not quite "neck-breaking rush". This car with the twin clutch DSG tranny the VW has would be the perfect diesel rocket
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  #118  
Old 02-28-2012, 10:44 AM
docpowell docpowell is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
EU market X6 35d still has M57 according to the wiki page. 30d and 40d use N57
Yes, in 2007, the E71 X6xdrive35d in Europe did use the M57. Once again, that information is incorrect and no longer current. That vehicle is not available in Europe anymore. ALL BMW vehicles here in Europe use the N57. Period.
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  #119  
Old 02-28-2012, 11:51 AM
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serge1 serge1 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR View Post
Where is the rocket like acceleration that I experienced when driving my wife's VW TDI? It's a heavier car and I don't think it will ever feel as quick as the TDI . . .BUT . . put the tranny in DS and you will experience a much stronger although not quite "neck-breaking rush". This car with the twin clutch DSG tranny the VW has would be the perfect diesel rocket
Are you talking about Jetta/Passat TDI? or Touareg?
If Jetta/Passat, then compare those to 335d! I drove one - it's a beast.

As far as Touareg TDI, it's much slower than x5 35d. If you don't epxerience the rush in x5, you won't experience it in Touareg diesel.
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  #120  
Old 02-28-2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by serge1 View Post
Are you talking about Jetta/Passat TDI?
2010 Jetta Sportwagen TDI with twin clutch DSG transmission - a little rocket indeed
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  #121  
Old 02-28-2012, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR View Post
2010 Jetta Sportwagen TDI with twin clutch DSG transmission - a little rocket indeed
Lol wtf are you talking about?

I traded in that exact same car on the X5. It's not a rocket. Power just feels more linear due to the single turbo I4. It was seamless and felt strong. X5 is faster.
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  #122  
Old 02-28-2012, 03:28 PM
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Lol wtf are you talking about?

I traded in that exact same car on the X5. It's not a rocket. Power just feels more linear due to the single turbo I4. It was seamless and felt strong. X5 is faster.
You describe it quite well and that is exactly what I'm talking about - linear, seamless and strong. Sure the X5 is faster but it doesn't feel quicker from 20-70 mph, not to me anyway
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  #123  
Old 02-29-2012, 09:05 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Update on x5 adventure

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR View Post
I know exactly what you mean and IMO they are all valid points. I felt the same when I first test drove the X5d: Where is the rocket like acceleration that I experienced when driving my wife's VW TDI? It's a heavier car and I don't think it will ever feel as quick as the TDI . . .BUT . . put the tranny in DS and you will experience a much stronger although not quite "neck-breaking rush". This car with the twin clutch DSG tranny the VW has would be the perfect diesel rocket
So one week later I drove the X5 35i and liked it better. The steering was once again very hard (way too much for my liking). It almost seemed like the power-steering pump went out... Why would anyone need to buy some steering package to get a lighter steering? I am not taking about Lexus-light, but 'cmon that wheel was impossible to turn! Really inconvenient in the city, that's where we mostly drive other than vacation. I liked the power better. Sure enough 35i is indeed statistically quicker. There was no rocket effect that I get in my F10 despite it being the same engine (boy, at 4k rpm my F10 rips!) but I attribute this to much greater mass of the X5, so it's understood. But I kind of liked it overall. The acceleration was more in line with my expectations (I can only imagine the gas guzzler rip in the V8...). Until they fix the steering (in the next body style perhaps?) I could not see myself owning one for that kind of money, though. It's nice but not THAT nice. Also, looking forward to improved interior (which is quite decent as it is, overal), with much bigger NAV screen as my main concern! It's a must... Otherwise, handling was great, highway cruising fantastic....

By the way, I also test-drove a 2012 MDX and it.... SUUUUCKED!!!!!!!!!!!! (I was actually happier with my old '03!) I'd rather spend 65k on X5 than 45k on MDX... And MDX here in Canada is only hair bit less than the X5 (about $58k), so the answer's quite simple!

Toureg has no third row seating available and Q7's interior is a JOKE.....
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Last edited by yogi799; 02-29-2012 at 09:10 AM.
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  #124  
Old 02-29-2012, 09:06 AM
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^ get Active Steering if it really bugs you...
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  #125  
Old 02-29-2012, 08:37 PM
Minkinovich Minkinovich is offline
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I was REALLY worried waiting for my 35d to arrive because I listened to these forums about the steering. I honestly have NO IDEA what everyone is talking about. Maybe its a LITTLE heavy... and only in a parking lot where I actually like to feel that I need to move the wheel to make it turn. Drove my dad's Highlander and the light steering made it feel like some toy car. And on the road the steering is perfect. Easy enough to drive with my knee

PS. And I came from a Maxima... a car with notoriously light steering.

Last edited by Minkinovich; 02-29-2012 at 08:40 PM.
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