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Ask-A-Dealer
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  #1  
Old 02-20-2013, 05:46 PM
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3ismagic# 3ismagic# is offline
HerrDoktorProfessor
Location: Another State of Mind
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,264
Mein Auto: '11 335d
Kelley Blue Book accuracy?

what I have:
2011 335d 15k miles Built and In-service july 2011 via ED
Deep Sea Blue
Black Leatherette
Aluminum trim
Sport Package
Navigation
ipod/bluetooth
BMW apps

What Kelley blue book quotes:
trade-in $31.9K
Private sale $34k


Are these reasonable? How much margin of error is there?
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  #2  
Old 02-20-2013, 06:53 PM
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01Byte 01Byte is offline
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Location: Phila, Pa
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,341
Mein Auto: 335d
Reasonable for what? Trade in? then no. Dealers use Manhiem auction data when setting that value. For private sale? Just do a search and see what others are pricing your car at and set the price accordingly.
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  #3  
Old 02-20-2013, 11:21 PM
schnell525 schnell525 is offline
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Location: Niebelungenland
 
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Posts: 1,267
Mein Auto: 12 550xi
Take average or fair and subtract 2k from it. Or from Autotrader, take the for sale price and take at least 6k from that and that should land you what the dealer is going to offer. The more expensive the car, the more variance you can see.

Today's search on autotrader country-wide showed only 1 CPO 2012 550i xdrive. That can't be used as the base of the value of a trade--question why.
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  #4  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:51 AM
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dannyc9997 dannyc9997 is offline
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Location: Massachusetts
 
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Mein Auto: 540i
Would you pay the kelly blue book for a new car? Short answer, NO!
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  #5  
Old 02-21-2013, 03:13 PM
ard ard is online now
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Location: Sierra foothills
 
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Posts: 10,120
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
KBB Trade in = Real Private party price

KBB trade minus ~10% = Real trade in
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  #6  
Old 02-22-2013, 07:10 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Location: South Florida
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,150
Mein Auto: 435/335
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
what I have:
2011 335d 15k miles Built and In-service july 2011 via ED
Deep Sea Blue
Black Leatherette
Aluminum trim
Sport Package
Navigation
ipod/bluetooth
BMW apps

What Kelley blue book quotes:
trade-in $31.9K
Private sale $34k


Are these reasonable? How much margin of error is there?
For comparison I got 32k for my 2011 335d and it was FULLY loaded with 19k miles. This was in November. I would say yours is closer to 28k maybe 29k.
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  #7  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:43 AM
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Weaselboy Weaselboy is offline
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Location: USA
 
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Posts: 1,534
Mein Auto: 2014 335i F30 Sedan
Like others mentioned, dealers will use recent Mannheim sales to set a price. But I have always found if you use the lowest KBB trade-in price (I think is is called "fair" condition), that gets you in the ballpark of what Mannheim is. For your car the KBB in fair condition is about 28,000.
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2013, 02:37 PM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Location: South Florida
 
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Posts: 3,150
Mein Auto: 435/335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaselboy View Post
Like others mentioned, dealers will use recent Mannheim sales to set a price. But I have always found if you use the lowest KBB trade-in price (I think is is called "fair" condition), that gets you in the ballpark of what Mannheim is. For your car the KBB in fair condition is about 28,000.
Agreed.
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  #9  
Old 02-23-2013, 11:53 AM
jonnyz1245 jonnyz1245 is offline
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Location: Pacific Northwest
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 73
Mein Auto: Audi Allroad
I agree that KBB is often overly optimistic in its pricing BUT my recent experience tells me that just like real estate, its all local. When I made the deal for my new X5 instead of trading my 2012 S4 in , I decided to try and sell it myslef. My backup plan being I can always trade it in for 40 I had it detailed and took some nice pics. Threw it up on Craigslist and Autotrader. Had a couple nibble from each over a 6 week period. almost had a sale for 45K from a guy down in the Bay area but he ultimately went with an 11 for 43K that was near his house. I live i Portland.

After weeks of this and no serious offers above 43, I decided to give the local dealers one more try. I called both local audi dealers and got quotes. I made the drive to one so they could inspect it. Trade i value per KBB at the time was 45.3 if Excellent and 44.4 if good. I had a previous off from the BMW dealer where I ordered my X5 of 40K. This was based on recent Manheim auction prices. The GM showed me the screen and I confirmed with another friend of mine who has a broker license. The two local Audi dealers came in at $42.5 and $44.3. I called BMW and told them what I had. GM punched some keys and came back a minute later and said he'd give me 44 but had to be that weekend. I told him I would be w/out a car if I did that and he said "no worries, I will put you in a loaner until your X5 arrives." So, I have been driving a 2013 528Xdrive for the last 3 weeks courtesy of Kuni BMW. It had 500 miles on the ODO when they gave it to me.

In my case, I got KBB trade in value on my 2012 S4 from a dealer. Now, their first offer was 40 but when I said "is that all you got" they gave me 44 and a loaner for a month. I am more than pleased with how it worked out. Of course they now have the S4 on their website for 52. which is 2K more than I paid for it but C'est la vie. Doubt they will get 52 for it but they will probably get 48 so its a win win for both of us. My cost of ownership on that S4 was less than 6K for 19 months and 18,500 miles. Not bad on a 56K car.

Of course YMMV!
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2013 X5D Space Grey, Oyster, Prem, Sports Act, AD, EPS, RBoards, Space saver, 19's!
2012 S4, Monsoon, 6 speed, Prem+ , Rear sports diff, B&O, Carbon, 19's Gone but never forgotten. traded in for the X5... nicest V-6 i've ever driven
2005 Audi allroad, Loaded, gone and definitely not forgotten.
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  #10  
Old 02-23-2013, 06:49 PM
ard ard is online now
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Location: Sierra foothills
 
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Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
^^^ Agree, there are LOCAL factors and MODEL factors, that can influence.

But I think the KEY is that you must do yoir homework. Most people go to KBB and think "OK, there I go".... IMO, KBB slants numbers to help sell cars for more money. I mean if you look at the unholy relationship between kbb, edmunds, etc, they all serve their advertisers! It may not be an overt influence, but rather a bias... but it is there. If you were to take 100 cars traded in and survey people with 'how close did you get to KBB trade, (assuming you didnt pay MSRP for the new car)?", I'd bet the vast majority will say "I got under KBB for my trade"

IMO

jonny, you were an exceptionally educated buyer...but you know that.

A

PS Where's it at?????
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  #11  
Old 02-24-2013, 10:45 AM
jonnyz1245 jonnyz1245 is offline
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Location: Pacific Northwest
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 73
Mein Auto: Audi Allroad
Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
^^^ Agree, there are LOCAL factors and MODEL factors, that can influence.

But I think the KEY is that you must do yoir homework. Most people go to KBB and think "OK, there I go".... IMO, KBB slants numbers to help sell cars for more money. I mean if you look at the unholy relationship between kbb, edmunds, etc, they all serve their advertisers! It may not be an overt influence, but rather a bias... but it is there. If you were to take 100 cars traded in and survey people with 'how close did you get to KBB trade, (assuming you didnt pay MSRP for the new car)?", I'd bet the vast majority will say "I got under KBB for my trade"

IMO

jonny, you were an exceptionally educated buyer...but you know that.

A

PS Where's it at?????

Agree with everything you said. KBB is just a number and all of these "car value" sites really can't be taken seriously. My neighbor is the GM at the local Ferrari dealer. They also have an Audi store under their corporate umbrella. Great guy. Really smart and down to earth. He helped me a great deal as did the folks on this forum. He said not to pay attention to KBB or Edmunds or anything else. As one would suspect, a car is only worth what someone else is going to pay you for it at any given time. He said S4's were selling 2K back of book which was around 42-43K at that time. He was pleasantly surprised that I got 44 and said as much. He couldn't pay that b/c his dealership couldn't afford to take the risk. That was based on their current mix of used cars for sale. Next month that could be different. Its a very fluid thing.

My advice to anyone is do your homework And focus on your local area only. In my case, low mileage late model S4's are not a dime a dozen and a somewhat desirable car which played into me maximizing its value. That said, 2 of 3 dealers initially offered me 40K for the car and the other one 42. These were not trades but straight sales. Only after I let it sit for a couple weeks and then called them back was I able to get more. If you have , for example, a 2005 Honda accord in good condition, do a search on autotrader within 50 miles of your house or 100 miles. How many are there for sale? at what price? You wanna sell that Honda privately? be in the bottom 25% of those cars price wise. You want to trade it in? Take at least 10% off that number.

as Ard said, do your own homework and even then it is a crap shoot with a lot of variable involved. The mood of the dealer that day, their used car mix, your mood, your time etc etc. One of the things that has always worked for me is to be in control of the situation and have options. They hate it when you know something. They are trained to extract maximum value for themselves. If you don't have an idea of what that is to you, you will come out on the losing end every time.

True story. I have a friend who always takes what they offer on the first round b/c thats what they tell him the they will pay.A salesmans dream. He doesn't like saying no and he doesn't like dealing with sales people. He buys all the extra stuff and feels awful afterwards. He bought his last few cars by telling them the payment he wanted. He came to me for his next one and I have already negotiated via email a price for a new car that he is purchasing next month

Ard, my X5 is finally on a truck it left Oxnard Friday. Dealer does not do delivery on weekend so even if it arrived yesterday or today, I will not get it until tomorrow. I will post pics for sure and be around the boards. Thanks for all your help!
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2013 X5D Space Grey, Oyster, Prem, Sports Act, AD, EPS, RBoards, Space saver, 19's!
2012 S4, Monsoon, 6 speed, Prem+ , Rear sports diff, B&O, Carbon, 19's Gone but never forgotten. traded in for the X5... nicest V-6 i've ever driven
2005 Audi allroad, Loaded, gone and definitely not forgotten.
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