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  #1  
Old 10-28-2016, 11:20 AM
clank clank is offline
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Will BMW have Nov 2016 Incentives on 5 Series?

Looking to make a purchase of a 5series now. Is it worth waiting to see if added BMW incentives might happen on Nov. 1st? Have a deal now at 8k of msrp on a car loaded the way i want and wondering if I should act on it or wait to see if deal could get better 11/1. Obviously looking to get best deal i can. Also I am looking to buy as I have never leased before, do dealer final prices change at all peace vs. buy? Might consider leasing but I know thats entire different discussion point. thx...
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  #2  
Old 10-28-2016, 11:46 AM
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I had been banking on it but as i see inventory dwindle, i think it will stay flat or it may improve a little bit. But, by then you may lose the car you want as they are moving pretty fast. Also, since there are not that many left, dealers are not that rushed to move specific configurations - some are more sought after than others.

Finally, 8k below MSRP can be a good or bad deal depending on the MSRP - think of it as a % off, or even better look at it as $xxx under invoice. On a $70k MSRP, 8k is about $1500 under invoice - thats not great. on a $50k MSRP, that would be about $2500 under invoice and thats a good deal. Hard to evaluate when looking at just $ under MSRP.

The biggest benefit to the end of model year is the lease programs - if you are looking to buy then you dont have as much advantage since the sale price is the same but they subsidize the rates heavily when you do a lease.
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Old 10-28-2016, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clank View Post
Looking to make a purchase of a 5series now. Is it worth waiting to see if added BMW incentives might happen on Nov. 1st? Have a deal now at 8k of msrp on a car loaded the way i want and wondering if I should act on it or wait to see if deal could get better 11/1. Obviously looking to get best deal i can. Also I am looking to buy as I have never leased before, do dealer final prices change at all peace vs. buy? Might consider leasing but I know thats entire different discussion point. thx...
Anything anyone tells you would be a guess, regarding november numbers.

Lots of us think that november will be aggressive.. but even though you are purchasing and not leasing, most of the discounting you will see right now will be because of the model year depreciation that is happening. Any 5 series right now will be a whole model different in just a few months (with a corresponding drop in value).

If you plan on driving it until the wheels fall off, it does not really matter, but otherwise it does matter.

If you have the car you want on tap, you need to weigh the chance of saving a few hundred bucks (which is what you would be looking at likely) vs getting the car you want now. At some point both your time and getting "the car you want" should factor into it.

On the 8k off thing, I agree 100% with Zoom (who is better at the financial part of this than I am). You need to look at the total deal (sales price of car vs MSRP, any fees charged, etc).
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  #4  
Old 10-28-2016, 12:13 PM
clank clank is offline
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thx for the reply zoom, yea its 66.2kmsrp with dealer selling at 6.2k off and my 2k incentive. Does that sound like a great deal on a 6/16 build non-punched car?
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  #5  
Old 10-28-2016, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by clank View Post
thx for the reply zoom, yea its 66.2kmsrp with dealer selling at 6.2k off and my 2k incentive. Does that sound like a great deal on a 6/16 build non-punched car?
What model is it? What's the invoice price?
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Old 10-28-2016, 12:31 PM
ZoomVT ZoomVT is offline
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Originally Posted by clank View Post
thx for the reply zoom, yea its 66.2kmsrp with dealer selling at 6.2k off and my 2k incentive. Does that sound like a great deal on a 6/16 build non-punched car?
Now that you give detail, its not a great deal... the 2k off you have, is that from a corporate incentive? If the answer is yes, you should be doing a lease since you get an improved lease incentive as well.

if the 2k is from your incentive, then the deal is not good enough. Thats basically invoice minus your incentive. We have seen deals in the range of $1-2K under invoice, and incentives on top of that.

But as I said above, dealers are not that worried about moving certain cars with good options - there are not that many left so they are maintaining some margin on them. This may be the best you get for the car you want depending on what your requirements are.
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Old 10-28-2016, 12:50 PM
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So I see 66k 535 has about 7% init. So it has lets say 4700profit on it. I have a cost price sheet on a 65k car which has 4615 init so I am making a few adjustments on the 66.2k car. So the deal is 1500 under invoice as I see it(6.2k -4.7k) +2k my incentive which is at 8.2k off msrp total. Yes my incentive USAA which is 1k on lease and 2k on purchase non/bmwfs. Am I missing something or does something not add up, wouldn't b surprised??
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Old 10-28-2016, 01:39 PM
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comments?
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2016, 05:20 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Originally Posted by clank View Post
So I see 66k 535 has about 7% init. So it has lets say 4700profit on it. I have a cost price sheet on a 65k car which has 4615 init so I am making a few adjustments on the 66.2k car. So the deal is 1500 under invoice as I see it(6.2k -4.7k) +2k my incentive which is at 8.2k off msrp total. Yes my incentive USAA which is 1k on lease and 2k on purchase non/bmwfs. Am I missing something or does something not add up, wouldn't b surprised??
Most BMWs have "approximately" 7% profit built into the MSRP. There is information to calculate the actual invoice on your specific car here in the pricing thread. You should calculate the invoice so you are not guessing.

What Zoom is saying, is that some have reported that they were able to get 1-2k off BEFORE their incentives (in august ish), but now that inventory is drying up, we have not seen that many of those deals. There may still be trunk money (hidden factory to dealer cash) on those cars, but dealers are less likely to dip into it to make deals on cars they have with popular options. (so invoice minus incentives might be the best you can get right now, as he said).

Your incentive is yours.. so shoot for invoice minus 1k then your incentive (which would be 3k under invoice). They may not bite.

The deal you have right now is not bad in my opinion, but its not "stunning" either. Its a solid deal, but please remember that the depreciation hit you are about to take on that car is even larger than normal for a new BMW... because of the model change. The new cars have all new tech in them (touch screen, wireless charging, etc) and have a new look.

Your car will not only be a year old as a 2016, it will be an entire model year old in just a few months, so for ME invoice pricing is not enough of an incentive to absorb that, on a PURCHASE that I am going to be stuck with "till the wheels fall off". A lease is another matter because you give it back, and dont really care what happens to it.
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  #10  
Old 10-28-2016, 05:33 PM
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JJ, thx for your reply. So I am getting 1.5k below invoice and also allowed to use "my" incentive so I am at 3.5k under invoice. So would that be considered a "good" deal?
I also totally understand I am getting 16year car at basically end of 16 year which makes it like a year old car.
Maybe I should be looking at 2k under invoice or better with added 2k incentive for this late in the year. Kind of why I was asking/hoping there might be a incentive offered by BMW in Nov to make me feel like purchase is good.
Lastly i have always been afraid of getting into new model years "G30", prefer to wait a year or 2 for bugs to go.
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  #11  
Old 10-28-2016, 07:36 PM
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Clank, you want to lease the car even if you want to buy it. The lease residual is very high and the money factor very low. Leasing is like stealing. If you want to buy the car at the end of the lease you will be able to buy it for much less than the residual for sure from a dealer. Try and get the base money factor which I believe is .00136 right now. They can't hurt you on the residual because BMWFS fixes that. If you have cash you don't need do 7 MSDs which will reduce the money factor by .00049, each security deposit costs 1 lease payment rounded up to the nearest $50. So if your lease payment including tax was $525 an MSD would be $550. I can't emphasize enough how leasing is completely obvious to anyone who knows a lot about this.
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Old 10-28-2016, 07:47 PM
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Mclaren, So what is the easiest war to ask my dealer to provide me a lease offer. I am so new to the lease game. I do know I would need min. of 12k mis. and a 3yr. I do have cash and will to use it if it benefits "reduces" my total 3year cost. How do i go about asking??
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:07 PM
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Mclaren, So what is the easiest war to ask my dealer to provide me a lease offer. I am so new to the lease game. I do know I would need min. of 12k mis. and a 3yr. I do have cash and will to use it if it benefits "reduces" my total 3year cost. How do i go about asking??
They are going to want to mark up the money factor to .00176 which is the maximum they are allowed. You don't want that. The MSDs reduce your lease cost significantly and you will get the money back at the end of the lease no matter what. It's like buying a tax free CD that yields north of 10% interest. Unfortunately some dealers are ignorant and don't understand or know about MSDs. Because of this they stupidly tell customers not to do it or they don't do it which is unfortunate. They will do it, BMWFS knows all about it.
Here is what you do, ask for a 36 month 12k miles per year lease quote with the base money factor of .00136 with no cap cost reduction. Read the thread in this section called pencil and paper lease calculation. Then PM me or post here with any questions.
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by clank View Post
Looking to make a purchase of a 5series now. Is it worth waiting to see if added BMW incentives might happen on Nov. 1st? Have a deal now at 8k of msrp on a car loaded the way i want and wondering if I should act on it or wait to see if deal could get better 11/1. Obviously looking to get best deal i can. Also I am looking to buy as I have never leased before, do dealer final prices change at all peace vs. buy? Might consider leasing but I know thats entire different discussion point. thx...
I think you missed it, BMW had some insane RV on the F10 as high as 65%, I saw 535 that MSRP for mid 60k be had for low 500 with tax.
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:25 PM
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so dealer is saying lowest MF available is .00087 unless i work for BMW fleet comps. which is .00136. Does this sound right and is .00087 MF ?
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:26 PM
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.00087 MF a good MF?
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:30 PM
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I looked at that pen and pencil lease calculation thread and don't think it will help you. Here's McLaren's really simple lease calculation. Cap cost - Residual divided by 36 is the monthly depreciation for a 36 month lease. (Cap cost + Residual)*Money factor is the monthly interest. Add those 2 together and you have the monthly lease payment. Then add sales tax. What is Cap Cost ? It is how much you agreed to pay for the car plus anything you add to that like the lease acquisition fee which is $925 I think now or a dealer fee. I wouldn't add anything. The residual is a percentage of the MSRP which is fixed by BMWFS so as I said before they can't hurt you on that. Finally there is the drive off which consists of the 1st month payment, the lease fee ( if not added to the cap cost ), the dealer fee and DMV costs.
Simple example. MSRP $60,000, agreed price $58,000. 12k miles 36 month residual 60%. Money factor .00136. So cap cost is $58,000, residual is .6*$60,000= $36,000.
($58,000-$36,000)/36 = $611.11 which is the monthly depreciation. ($58,000+$36,000)*.00136= $127.84 which is the monthly interest. So the lease payment is $738.95 plus tax.
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:33 PM
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With 7 MSDs the money factor would be .00136 - .00049 = .00087, a great money factor. Equal to about 2%
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:41 PM
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Monthly Interest = (average amount borrowed)*(monthly APR) = (Cap Cost + Residual)/2*(APR/12) = (Cap Cost + Residual)*(APR/24), So Money Factor is APR/24 or APR = 24*Money Factor.
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Old 10-28-2016, 09:46 PM
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Dealer said he would get me a quote tomorrow. Hopefully it will make more since to me when I see it.
Eagle, help me understand the residual value of .65% and why this is so good an making a lease a no brainier for 535s now?
I had a lease quote a few weeks back and residual was .65k car and was offered at 57k. It had a rate of .00169 with a 1250 cash down with payments of 651 a mo on 36/12 lease. Does that sound like a good deal?? He also gave me a 36month at 613 with 2500 down, 537 a mo. with 5k down. Not sure if those were good deals.
Sounds like if I was able to use MSDS on the 1250 down deal I would get a better MF and return of MSDs and probably get close to the low 500 range possibly? This car is already gone but I have another deal in place thats better deal I believe and we will see how lease price comes in.
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Old 10-29-2016, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by clank View Post
Dealer said he would get me a quote tomorrow. Hopefully it will make more since to me when I see it.
Eagle, help me understand the residual value of .65% and why this is so good an making a lease a no brainier for 535s now?
I had a lease quote a few weeks back and residual was .65k car and was offered at 57k. It had a rate of .00169 with a 1250 cash down with payments of 651 a mo on 36/12 lease. Does that sound like a good deal?? He also gave me a 36month at 613 with 2500 down, 537 a mo. with 5k down. Not sure if those were good deals.
Sounds like if I was able to use MSDS on the 1250 down deal I would get a better MF and return of MSDs and probably get close to the low 500 range possibly? This car is already gone but I have another deal in place thats better deal I believe and we will see how lease price comes in.
Are you saying it was a $65k car being offered for $57k? Or residual was 65%? MF is marked up. Best deals start at the base rate but do realize dealers need to keep the doors open and lights on. I got a quote from a Penske dealer and the marked up MF was something they couldn't touch per order from corporate. However, since it added about $1k over the term of the lease, we split it and adjusted the selling price to reflect it only being $500. What does the cash down include? At best, you want it to be only paying your start up costs at signing (doc fee, acq fee, 1st month, title/registration).
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Old 10-29-2016, 09:37 AM
clank clank is offline
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shon, sorry to be so confusing, very new to this lease game.
the lease quote was RV at .65, rate at .00169, msrp at 65k and sell price at 57k for a 3yr/36kmi. The quote really didn't tell me what the diff cash amounts were including, just that 1250down=651mo, 2500=613mo and 5k down = 531mo. Hope this makes since.
not sure what you mean by "base rate", what is base rate and what is that value? Also still trying to understand is .65RV a great rate for a 3/36 lease for a 535-2016 and that is a "big" reason to lease these cars vs. buying?
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Old 10-29-2016, 10:14 AM
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shon, sorry to be so confusing, very new to this lease game.
the lease quote was RV at .65, rate at .00169, msrp at 65k and sell price at 57k for a 3yr/36kmi. The quote really didn't tell me what the diff cash amounts were including, just that 1250down=651mo, 2500=613mo and 5k down = 531mo. Hope this makes since.
not sure what you mean by "base rate", what is base rate and what is that value? Also still trying to understand is .65RV a great rate for a 3/36 lease for a 535-2016 and that is a "big" reason to lease these cars vs. buying?
You should read the leasing 101 thread, and the pricing thread. \

The leasing 101 thread: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=895604

Pricing thread:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=916818

You need to understand how leasing works if you are considering it. Read the leasing thread a few different times until you understand it, then come back and ask questions after that if you have them.

As to your residual value question, the higher the residual value, the cheaper the car will be on a lease payment because you are paying for less of the car during your rental (lease term).

If the residual is set by BMW at 75% for example that means you will only pay for 25% of the car over the term of the lease. While this is GREAT for you if you want to give the car back, its not that great if you plan on keeping the car (buying out the lease).

BMW inflates the residual value on the cars a lot to make leasing cheaper. This means, however, the car is almost NEVER worth what the residual value is when the lease is over. If they set the residual value at 75% that means you only pay for 25% of the car, but that ALSO means that there is still 75% of the car left to pay for at the end of the 3 year term, but a 3 year old version of that car will only be actually worth (made up number here) 51-52% of its MSRP.

So, for LEASING and turning the car in and getting another LEASE a high residual value is preferred. if you intend to buy the car at the end of the lease, you should buy it at the beginning of the lease, or, have a cash flow situation such that you dont have to finance the ballon payment (residual) at the end of the lease.


I intended to make a quick post here (something I almost never do) so I am going to stop here...
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Old 10-29-2016, 10:35 AM
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JJ, thx 4 the reply and yes I do need to understand the lease game. I have read "leasing 101" but maybe I should read it multiple times so I can understand it better. Not sure why you would point me to pricing as I have already stated I have invoice cost and 535s and have been neg. on a car as stated in this thread. I do understand the RV as u stated. I guess as a first time leaser I am looking for "flexibility" and of course dollars spent for lease period/potential buy out "who knows" how I would feel about car 3 years from now. I know in the past when I was young I would run thru cars every 2 years but those days went bye-bye with family. Now that I am older you just don't know whats up in 3years. Flat cost of ownership I guess is what I am looking at.
It really blew me away when I started reading up on BMW buying and noticed that leasing seemed to be the thing. I really wished I knew the percentage of lease vs. buy on BMWs today.
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Old 10-29-2016, 10:54 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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JJ, thx 4 the reply and yes I do need to understand the lease game. I have read "leasing 101" but maybe I should read it multiple times so I can understand it better. Not sure why you would point me to pricing as I have already stated I have invoice cost and 535s and have been neg. on a car as stated in this thread. I do understand the RV as u stated. I guess as a first time leaser I am looking for "flexibility" and of course dollars spent for lease period/potential buy out "who knows" how I would feel about car 3 years from now. I know in the past when I was young I would run thru cars every 2 years but those days went bye-bye with family. Now that I am older you just don't know whats up in 3years. Flat cost of ownership I guess is what I am looking at.
It really blew me away when I started reading up on BMW buying and noticed that leasing seemed to be the thing. I really wished I knew the percentage of lease vs. buy on BMWs today.
I pointed you to the pricing thread because you were asking "is this a good deal" on several posts, so I wanted to make sure you saw how to calculate invoice. Sounds like you are all set on that front so, good luck with your search

As for the lease vs buy, on BMWs its roughly half I believe (roughly 50%).
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