Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)

F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #126  
Old 02-05-2013, 05:31 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 993
Mein Auto: BMW 328i SP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission View Post
Turbocharged engines burn MORE fuel under full throttle acceleration, but are much more efficient during cruise. Naturally aspirated engines take the middle road and are rather consistent with consumption.

Most drivers prefer turbocharged engines as today's variants make gobs of torque down low and have minimal lag. I prefer turbo, unless you give me a NA engine over 5.0-liters.

Last week, I had the opportunity to spend time in a CL65 AMG (twin-turbo 6.0-liter V12 making 621 hp and 738 lb-ft) and a Lamborghini Aventador (NA 6.5-liter V12 making 700 hp and 608 lb-ft). Both deliver power very differently — one is a screamer and the other is a torque monster. That's me in the Lambo on the banking at Homestead.

- Mike
Like a BOSS!
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 02-05-2013, 05:43 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,258
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Well, assuming what you report is founded, it iis not even helping significantly.

For one, there is no evidence that the reported 28mpg is the same routine as the comparative tests above. A 328i can be anywhere between 22mpg and 34mpg (EPA.) . Apple to orange situation to start with.

For two, Car&Driver reported 26mpg on a 40000miles 2006 N52 330i. Its real-life 5-60mph is even quicker than a 2012 N20 328i. With direct injection, it would only improve.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...6-bmw-330i.pdf

For three, even assuming 28mpg / 240HP running on premium is no better by any mean than 26mpg / 270HP running on regular. * So CR is quite right *.
Really?

I have no interest in going down your road AGAIN with the 5-60 crap and your magazine sources being better than mine.

YOU quoted a section of a CR article-the same one I read today on this forum in this link:
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=800305

And again here:
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/05/c...gines-for-mis/

Again, clearly noted is the counter example, a positive being the N20 328.

You dug up an old post in the F30 forum, mention the CR result and give the example of the N20 in the X3. Your point in it-I dunno to somehow validate your perpetual diatribe about how bad the N20 F30 is and that BMW should have made the engine you wanted instead.

So continue to have a conversation with yourself, to tell everyone how the only real world figure that matters is 5-60mph, and that everyone is wrong, you are right and your facts are fact'ier than anyone elses. I also award a couple extra douche points to you for insinuating I made up some quote and then when I show the source, now magically CR's F30 testing is different than the results for the other cars.

__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ blower@11-16lbs of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt AERO+ TUNED
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 02-05-2013, 05:50 PM
Emission's Avatar
Emission Emission is offline
Automotive Monomaniac
Location: North of Los Angeles, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,690
Mein Auto: Schnelle Autos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Really?

I have no interest in going down your road AGAIN with the 5-60 crap and your magazine sources being better than mine.

YOU quoted a section of a CR article-the same one I read today on this forum in this link:
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=800305

And again here:
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/05/c...gines-for-mis/

Again, clearly noted is the counter example, a positive being the N20 328.

You dug up an old post in the F30 forum, mention the CR result and give the example of the N20 in the X3. Your point in it-I dunno to somehow validate your perpetual diatribe about how bad the N20 F30 is and that BMW should have made the engine you wanted instead.

So continue to have a conversation with yourself, to tell everyone how the only real world figure that matters is 5-60mph, and that everyone is wrong, you are right and your facts are fact'ier than anyone elses. I also award a couple extra douche points to you for insinuating I made up some quote and then when I show the source, now magically CR's F30 testing is different than the results for the other cars.

A link to Autoblog? They suck.

Truth is, if each of us are handed the keys to the identical vehicle, and then we all follow each other across town, our fuel economy would not match. Driving style plays a role, just like tire pressure, ambient temperature, fuel quality, etc...

I am quite certain that some individuals are better off with a low-displacement turbocharged engine, while others are better with the naturally aspirated powerplant. One thing is for sure, the N52 is one hellava lot smoother.

- Mike
__________________
I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'15 Volkswagen Golf TDI 6MT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Read my work as Editor-in-Chief for Autoweb!
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 02-05-2013, 05:55 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,258
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfox335i View Post
I thought the N20 was laggy off the line and sluggish at low speeds. Once it's up to speed, it has nice power but for a 45-49K car well equipped, I expected better. The 335 satisfied those expectations and is what the 328 should be. Sorry, but the 328 isn't close in driving experience to a 335. It's a fine car if MPG's and price are a concern.

I don't think it has anything to do with the N20 being a 4 banger either. The Japanese have done some pretty amazing stuff with 4 bangers. Give BMW some time, they should be able to shore up the deficiencies of the N20.

Also, Those of you ragging on the N55, I can't tell if your underestimating it or overestimating the N54. I've driven both. Both are great engines, and I think saying the N54 is exponentially better then the N55 is an incorrect statement. I think N55 is strong, has a wide powerband, pulls fiercely in all gears, and has a great engine note when pushed. (At idle, it's unimpressive, though its nothing an AM exhaust can't help) This engine is highly underrated, and I am biased because I own one but that doesn't mean it's not true.
I am going to remind you we are talking about the BASE engine here.

I have driven just about every iteration from the past decade.

Before, the gap between N52 and N55 was quite large. The N20 to N55 gap has shrunken quite a bit in terms of performance.

My BMS tune arrived in the mail today, $300. That is all it took to give me all the performance I could want. Does it sound like an I-6 now, no. Does it sound good for what it is, yes.

Compare the figures to an N55.


Spare me the drivel about tuning an N55. Fact is, you could never get an N52 to this level of power without tons of money in a FI kit. The N20 has closed the gap drastically. You gave up sound, and even though an exhaust helps, it's not the same. Boo-hoo.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ blower@11-16lbs of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt AERO+ TUNED
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 02-05-2013, 05:59 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,258
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission View Post
A link to Autoblog? They suck.

Truth is, if each of us are handed the keys to the identical vehicle, and then we all follow each other across town, our fuel economy would not match. Driving style plays a role, just like tire pressure, ambient temperature, fuel quality, etc...

I am quite certain that some individuals are better off with a low-displacement turbocharged engine, while others are better with the naturally aspirated powerplant. One thing is for sure, the N52 is one hellava lot smoother.

- Mike
You missed the multi-page previous debate with Saintor and I.

I had screen shots where I average no less than 28mpg during my 5k plus of driving, others have too. But he has away of wanting his facts, his sources to count, and not yours. I show 0-60, 30-50,50-70, 1/4 mile all favoring the N20 big time over the N52 and he says no. Those are abusive, not real world. The only test that matters is C&D 5-60mph tests where the N52 was a tenth faster.

It's no fun playing with the guy in the sandbox who makes his own rules.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ blower@11-16lbs of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt AERO+ TUNED
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:05 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 993
Mein Auto: BMW 328i SP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I am going to remind you we are talking about the BASE engine here.

I have driven just about every iteration from the past decade.

Before, the gap between N52 and N55 was quite large. The N20 to N55 gap has shrunken quite a bit in terms of performance.

My BMS tune arrived in the mail today, $300. That is all it took to give me all the performance I could want. Does it sound like an I-6 now, no. Does it sound good for what it is, yes.

Compare the figures to an N55.


Spare me the drivel about tuning an N55. Fact is, you could never get an N52 to this level of power without tons of money in a FI kit. The N20 has closed the gap drastically. You gave up sound, and even though an exhaust helps, it's not the same. Boo-hoo.
You can make over 260 hp from the E90 328i for about a grand http://activeautowerkeblog.wordpress.com/. It is more than plenty for everyday driving and quicker than the E36 M3. It will sound amazing and pull hard all the way to the redline. Lets face it, if straight line acceleration was a main concern here both the N52 and N20 lack in this department. Turbo cars are fun but the honeymoon ends quick once the warranty expires. Speaking from experience.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:07 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 993
Mein Auto: BMW 328i SP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
You missed the multi-page previous debate with Saintor and I.

I had screen shots where I average no less than 28mpg during my 5k plus of driving, others have too. But he has away of wanting his facts, his sources to count, and not yours. I show 0-60, 30-50,50-70, 1/4 mile all favoring the N20 big time over the N52 and he says no. Those are abusive, not real world. The only test that matters is C&D 5-60mph tests where the N52 was a tenth faster.

It's no fun playing with the guy in the sandbox who makes his own rules.
There is a less than .5 second difference between N52 and N20 powered vehicles when equipped with the same transmission.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:14 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,258
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
You can make over 260 hp from the E90 328i for about a grand http://activeautowerkeblog.wordpress.com/. It is more than plenty for everyday driving and quicker than the E36 M3. It will sound amazing and pull hard all the way to the redline. Lets face it, if straight line acceleration was a main concern here both the N52 and N20 lack in this department. Turbo cars are fun but the honeymoon ends quick once the warranty expires. Speaking from experience.
260hp at the crank(also your example has an exhaust too). I have an Active Autowerk tune on my other car. Let's just say I find them a bit suspect, especially a claim of a 30hp gain on a modest NA car. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Problem is, 260hp at the crank puts you about where the actual N20 is stock. But what about torque?

Here is the $300 N20 tune, look at the torque advantage, it's night and day.

Now my exhaust made an extra 20w-tq on the Dyno, so add that to the results above. This is stage 1, imagine stage 2 with a full turbo exhaust. Yep, knocking on 300whp and 315lbs of torque for what, maybe $1500 tops.

Reliability?

I have had reliable turbo cars with tons of miles and had unreliable NA cars...don't see the point of such a blanket statement that you ended with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
There is a less than .5 second difference between N52 and N20 powered vehicles when equipped with the same transmission.
.5 seconds is not earth shattering. But explain some of the N55 chest bumping compared to the figures of the N20...same .5 second.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ blower@11-16lbs of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt AERO+ TUNED

Last edited by Jamesonsviggen; 02-05-2013 at 06:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:26 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 993
Mein Auto: BMW 328i SP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
260hp at the crank. I have an Active Autowerk tune on my other car. Let's just say I find them a bit suspect, especially a claim of a 30hp gain on a modest NA car. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Problem is, 260hp at the crank puts you about where the actual N20 is stock. But what about torque?

Here is the $300 N20 tune, look at the torque advantage, it's night and day.

First, NA tunes make amusing claims. Show me the dyno.

Reliability?

I have had reliable turbo cars with tons of miles and had unreliable NA cars...don't see the point of such a blanket statement that you ended with.

.5 seconds is not earth shattering. But explain some of the N55 chest bumping compared to the figures of the N20...same .5 second.
There is a dyno in the link I posted above. Click and see for yourself. Over 190 WHP on a 328XI MUSTANG Dyno not DYNOJET. Tourqe doesn't = acceleration, HP does. Dealerships love turbo cars for a good reason. Current FI Turbo fours are reliability and maintenance nightmares. I know this from personal experience. Not sure why the N55 guys are bashing the N20.
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:27 PM
Saintor's Avatar
Saintor Saintor is offline
Abuser of everything
Location: MTL
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,913
Mein Auto: BMW E90 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Really?

I have no interest in going down your road AGAIN with the 5-60 crap and your magazine sources being better than mine.

YOU quoted a section of a CR article-the same one I read today on this forum in this link:
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=800305

And again here:
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/05/c...gines-for-mis/

.....

So continue to have a conversation with yourself, to tell everyone how the only real world figure that matters is 5-60mph, and that everyone is wrong, you are right and your facts are fact'ier than anyone elses. I also award a couple extra douche points to you for insinuating I made up some quote and then when I show the source, now magically CR's F30 testing is different than the results for the other cars.

Well, given your history as a b*ll****ter, don't be surprised that we don't believe you without any link.

Another proof is that you keep saying that you don't want a conversation with me, yet you feel the urge to respond to my posts. And turn it in a personal thing, like your pic of a disk that you posted 4 times. That's harassment and that is exactly what imbeciles do.

The table that I posted is self-explanatory and fully support everything I have been claiming for a long time. Including the rationale of using a street acceleration time (5-60 or CR 0-60mph) instead of the typical race acceleration time with abuse. But if you are too thick to get the unavoidable logic, then be it. Not my problem.
__________________
2007 E90 AW 323i Step | Lowered 1.25"/1" | BMW Performance Exhaust | Debadged | Scangauge II | Style 162 18" & 161 17" wheels & rear 15mm spacers
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:35 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,258
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
There is a dyno in the link I posted above. Click and see for yourself. Over 190 WHP on a 328XI MUSTANG Dyno not DYNOJET. Tourqe doesn't = acceleration, HP does. Dealerships love turbo cars for a good reason. Current FI Turbo fours are reliability and maintenance nightmares. I know this from personal experience. Not sure why the N55 guys are bashing the N20.
Yeah I saw the dyno. I am weary of claims for an NA tune from AA, again from MY experience as someone with an AA tune.

I had a reliability nightmare with the AUdi Vw 2.0T, but had great experiences with 3-5 Saabs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Well, given your history as a b*ll****ter, don't be surprised that we don't believe you without any link.

Another proof is that you keep saying that you don't want a conversation with me, yet you feel the urge to respond to my posts. And turn it in a personal thing, like your pic of a disk that you posted 4 times. That's harassment and that is exactly what imbeciles do.

The table that I posted is self-explanatory and fully support everything I have been claiming for a long time. Including the rationale of using a street acceleration time (5-60 or CR 0-60mph) instead of the typical race acceleration time with abuse. But if you are too thick to get the unavoidable logic, then be it. Not my problem.
"We" don't believe you? Since when did YOU become WE. Show me all the people that don't believe me. Show me how I am such a liar, that I now fabricate information.

Your chart was comedic to me since it did not have the car on it that is forum is a part of. It had an X3. As weight goes up, engines like the N20 makes less sense. You often have to drive them harder which means no MPG improvement. Here I am, I see your Cr chart from the same article I have read more than once today and ones which mention the 328 favorably...I honestly could not believe it-you post that chart in here to prove your point, but exclude the F30 specific part which counters your point. Do you know how bad that comes across? But I am the bad guy again...sureeeee.

I am the one turning things personal? Hahaha.

You come into this forum over and over and repeat the same things over and over. Am I like some, who say you should stay out and have no right to be here. Nope. But, I will keep on posting my broken record if you keep sounding like one.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ blower@11-16lbs of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt AERO+ TUNED

Last edited by Jamesonsviggen; 02-05-2013 at 06:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:42 PM
Emission's Avatar
Emission Emission is offline
Automotive Monomaniac
Location: North of Los Angeles, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,690
Mein Auto: Schnelle Autos
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
There is a less than .5 second difference between N52 and N20 powered vehicles when equipped with the same transmission.
An FWIW, a .5 second gap is meaningless in the real world.

Truth is, torque rating is more important at that point.

- Mike
__________________
I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'15 Volkswagen Golf TDI 6MT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Read my work as Editor-in-Chief for Autoweb!
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:45 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 993
Mein Auto: BMW 328i SP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Yeah I saw the dyno. I am weary of claims for an NA tune from AA, again from MY experience as someone with an AA tune.

I had a reliability nightmare with the AUdi Vw 2.0T, but had great experiences with 3-5 Saabs.


"We" don't believe you? Since when did YOU become WE. Show me all the people that don't believe me. Show me how I am such a liar, that I now fabricate information.

I am the one turning things personal? Hahaha.

You come into this forum over and over and repeat the same things over and over. Am I like some, who say you should stay out and have no right to be here. Nope. But, I will keep on posting my broken record if you keep sounding like one.
Hmmm same experience here when it comes to VAG products. My 2.0TSI was a disaster. I really hope your N20 is trouble free being tuned to that level. It is already very stressed out in the stock form. Anyone that I know with a turbo vehicle has had some type of turbo related problems. Granted a lot of them were tuned. Who knows, maybe BMW has nailed it with the N20 when it comes to reliability just like they did with N52. Only time will, however I will remain a bit skeptical given their recent record with the N54 and even the N55.
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:46 PM
Saintor's Avatar
Saintor Saintor is offline
Abuser of everything
Location: MTL
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,913
Mein Auto: BMW E90 2007
Quote:
Turbocharged engines burn MORE fuel under full throttle acceleration, but are much more efficient during cruise.
Funny because all those EPA figures don't necessarily say this.
__________________
2007 E90 AW 323i Step | Lowered 1.25"/1" | BMW Performance Exhaust | Debadged | Scangauge II | Style 162 18" & 161 17" wheels & rear 15mm spacers
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:55 PM
1naztyx5 1naztyx5 is offline
Account Under Review
Location: Lansdale,PA
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 462
Mein Auto: E70 X5/E60 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post


I was going to buy a 5 Series or defect to Mercedes Benz due to the 4 cylinder engine and the perception I had about it.

Reading your review about the 328i and then taking a test drive, couldn't believe it. The N20 is a rocket. Makes for a crazy-fast car. Who needs cylinders when you have turbos?

VROOM.

BJ
could not agree more, I just had a 2012 528i loaner and man! I was really taken back by how fast the car feels, could not believe is a 4 cylinder engine. go turbo or go home lol
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:56 PM
Emission's Avatar
Emission Emission is offline
Automotive Monomaniac
Location: North of Los Angeles, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,690
Mein Auto: Schnelle Autos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Funny because all those EPA figures don't necessarily say this.
They are just guides.

Keep in mind that BMW's 2.0-liter turbo is just a NA four-cylinder on the highway (say... under 20 percent load). Only when the driver gets on the throttle does the turbo spool to meet demand. This is one reason why "chipped" turbocharged cars don't necessarily get worse fuel economy on the highway cycle — the chip provides additional boost that is only used during WOT.

- Mike
__________________
I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'15 Volkswagen Golf TDI 6MT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Read my work as Editor-in-Chief for Autoweb!
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 02-05-2013, 08:01 PM
Saintor's Avatar
Saintor Saintor is offline
Abuser of everything
Location: MTL
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,913
Mein Auto: BMW E90 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission View Post
They are just guides.

Keep in mind that BMW's 2.0-liter turbo is just a NA four-cylinder on the highway (say... under 20 percent load). Only when the driver gets on the throttle does the turbo spool to meet demand. This is one reason why "chipped" turbocharged cars don't necessarily get worse fuel economy on the highway cycle — the chip provides additional boost that is only used during WOT.

- Mike
Well, I hear you but this theory part should show in those "guides" too.


Don't forget the V6 cylinders deactivation. Looking at your Q5 2.0T EPA figures, I thought twice.... what V6 small SUV gets 28mpg highway (2013)? Then last year Q5 2.0T with the ZF8 transmission was 27mpg (same as a RDX AWD V6 280HP no direct injection, 6-sp.).
__________________
2007 E90 AW 323i Step | Lowered 1.25"/1" | BMW Performance Exhaust | Debadged | Scangauge II | Style 162 18" & 161 17" wheels & rear 15mm spacers
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 02-05-2013, 08:14 PM
Emission's Avatar
Emission Emission is offline
Automotive Monomaniac
Location: North of Los Angeles, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,690
Mein Auto: Schnelle Autos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Well, I hear you but this theory part should show in those "guides" too.


Don't forget the V6 cylinders deactivation. Looking at your Q5 2.0T EPA figures, I thought twice.... what V6 small SUV gets 28mpg highway (2013)? Then last year Q5 2.0T with the ZF8 transmission was 27mpg (same as a RDX AWD V6 280HP no direct injection, 6-sp.).
Yes, you are correct. But keep in mind that the V6 (and V8... and even the Aventador's V12 does cylinder deactivation this year — the whole half shuts down making an inline-6!) still carry the weight penalty of the additional mass in the nose when compared to smaller displacement turbocharged engines.

I don't really care about fuel economy (I am lucky enough that someone else pays for most of my fuel), but I have noticed that I generally prefer vehicles with lighter/smaller/forced induction engines under the hood when offered the choice (e.g., I prefer the F30 328i over the F30 335i). As I get old, and really jaded with these crazy cars I drive, overall balance and low-end torque seem to keep me smiling.

- Mike
__________________
I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'15 Volkswagen Golf TDI 6MT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Read my work as Editor-in-Chief for Autoweb!
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 02-06-2013, 07:14 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 993
Mein Auto: BMW 328i SP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission View Post
Yes, you are correct. But keep in mind that the V6 (and V8... and even the Aventador's V12 does cylinder deactivation this year — the whole half shuts down making an inline-6!) still carry the weight penalty of the additional mass in the nose when compared to smaller displacement turbocharged engines.

I don't really care about fuel economy (I am lucky enough that someone else pays for most of my fuel), but I have noticed that I generally prefer vehicles with lighter/smaller/forced induction engines under the hood when offered the choice (e.g., I prefer the F30 328i over the F30 335i). As I get old, and really jaded with these crazy cars I drive, overall balance and low-end torque seem to keep me smiling.

- Mike
That's not necessarily true. IIRC the N52 weights just about the same as the N20, if not less. Someone correct me if I am wrong. The added cooling and electronic components make turbo engines more complicated and heavy. Take the F10 for example; 2011 N52 vs 2012 N20...
"This, however, is our first experience with this engine in something large. Few things reveal an engine’s flaws as reliably as increasing its burden, and the 528i is about 700 pounds heavier than the four-cylinder Z4. (Speaking of weight, BMW says the four-cylinder 528 is 22 pounds heavier than the previous model with the inline-six.)"
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 02-06-2013, 07:17 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
Moderator
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,515
Mein Auto: 2014 328i Sport Line MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
You can make over 260 hp from the E90 328i for about a grand http://activeautowerkeblog.wordpress.com/. It is more than plenty for everyday driving and quicker than the E36 M3. It will sound amazing and pull hard all the way to the redline. Lets face it, if straight line acceleration was a main concern here both the N52 and N20 lack in this department. Turbo cars are fun but the honeymoon ends quick once the warranty expires. Speaking from experience.
Don't believe this garbage. All you can do to a modern non-turbo car is open the intake and exhaust to make them less restrictive. At best you will get 10 hp. A claim of 30 is dubious. I've been here for 5+ years and there are a boatload of people wanting to increase HP on their N52 engines. I have not read one credible claim that they made their cars significantly faster.
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 02-06-2013, 07:42 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,258
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Don't believe this garbage. All you can do to a modern non-turbo car is open the intake and exhaust to make them less restrictive. At best you will get 10 hp. A claim of 30 is dubious. I've been here for 5+ years and there are a boatload of people wanting to increase HP on their N52 engines. I have not read one credible claim that they made their cars significantly faster.
My feelings/experience exactly.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ blower@11-16lbs of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt AERO+ TUNED
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 02-06-2013, 07:44 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,258
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
That's not necessarily true. IIRC the N52 weights just about the same as the N20, if not less. Someone correct me if I am wrong. The added cooling and electronic components make turbo engines more complicated and heavy. Take the F10 for example; 2011 N52 vs 2012 N20...
"This, however, is our first experience with this engine in something large. Few things reveal an engine’s flaws as reliably as increasing its burden, and the 528i is about 700 pounds heavier than the four-cylinder Z4. (Speaking of weight, BMW says the four-cylinder 528 is 22 pounds heavier than the previous model with the inline-six.)"
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review
How do we know the weight gain is not from the 8spd auto?

On the f30, from what I remember there is no weight gain.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ blower@11-16lbs of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt AERO+ TUNED
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 02-06-2013, 07:49 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 993
Mein Auto: BMW 328i SP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Don't believe this garbage. All you can do to a modern non-turbo car is open the intake and exhaust to make them less restrictive. At best you will get 10 hp. A claim of 30 is dubious. I've been here for 5+ years and there are a boatload of people wanting to increase HP on their N52 engines. I have not read one credible claim that they made their cars significantly faster.
Completely false. While it is much harder and more expensive to extract power out of NA engine, it is still possible. There is a dyno sheet proving those gains, why would they make it up? The tune has been out for years and works fantastic! They claim 15 hp without any bolt-ons, it feels like it adds more than that. European tuners can extract much more power of the Euro spec N52 as well. There are plenty of dyno sheets showing gains from this tune. I know this from personal experience.
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 02-06-2013, 07:49 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 993
Mein Auto: BMW 328i SP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
How do we know the weight gain is not from the 8spd auto?

On the f30, from what I remember there is no weight gain.
They both use the 8 speed auto. F30 is a completely different chassis, the F10 is the same.
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 02-06-2013, 07:51 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,258
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
They both use the 8 speed auto. F30 is a completely different chassis, the F10 is the same.
Ok then

Let's move from the f10 to the f30.

Is there a weight gain with similar optioned cars from e90 to f30?
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ blower@11-16lbs of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt AERO+ TUNED
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms