BMW F10 528i (N20) Review by someone who owns one

Originally Posted by raleedy

2. I don't understand the concern about starter wear. You're thinking this higher demand wasn't anticipated by all the manufacturers that now use the start/stop system? If you thought of it, why wouldn't they? Is there some evidence that these cars are flawed in this respect?

Are these the same geniuses who specified 3,000 to 5,000 mile oil intervals and 50k coolant intervals when the customer paid for it, but now that it's on their dime seem to think that oil should go 12k to 17k miles and that coolant and transmission fluid is "lifetime"?

The bottom line is that they won't wear out before the warranty (even extended) is over so they really don't give a fig.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Are these the same geniuses who specified 3,000 to 5,000 mile oil intervals and 50k coolant intervals when the customer paid for it, but now that it's on their dime seem to think that oil should go 12k to 17k miles and that coolant and transmission fluid is "lifetime"?

The bottom line is that they won't wear out before the warranty (even extended) is over so they really don't give a fig.

How I wish to speak you to the mouth, but I can not.
I am in a denial phase right now and forgot the exact amount the s ealer charged me for an oil change, it was around 300 euro, ehh 420 dollars? So labour, oil and a filter, takes them an hour to do it and they were able to overfill, I have got a dipstick you know...

So the argumentation that the attitude for quicker changes than the Munchen specified ones would be expected would mean our SA's invite us all the time for some oil change again.
They are not, the s ealers in this country follow stricktly the official interfalls.

Originally Posted by raleedy

Two things:
1. The 535i doesn't sound good either. Direct injected turbocharged engines just don't.

Really? I thought the 535i I test droce sounded great. More interesting than the 550, in fact. But I haven't heard the 528i. I guess the days of BMW sacrificing HP for distinct engine/exhaust sounds are a thing of the past - a shame, if true.

Read this:
http://www.examiner.com/sports-car-i...-four-cylinder

I have been rethinking tuning of my 528i with N20 4-cyl Turbo engine and come to the conclusion that I want to avoid a separate add-on ECU unit and instead look for a remapping (flash) of the car's own ECU.

It seems the best equipment on the market for doing such tuning is the following equipment:
http://www.cmdtec.it/
So the idea is to look for local market tuners (who develop for cars with local market specifications) that use this particular equipment for developing upgraded software for your N20's ECU.

The understanding is that such tuning is (nearly) undetectable, and also fully reversible (if anything goes wrong, or if you simply don't like it, or alternatively when you have a need to bring the car back to stock).

I am also interested in having the exhaust system carefully modified with a sports catalyser etc. for better airflow and a bit more "attractive sound".

Nice write up welcome to the fest.. based on your first posting and review your passion will fit right in!!

Enjoy your new car.. sounds like your wife may find it missing more often then she would like..."where's my car?? Where's my husband"??

Needscafe....Stop using the parking brake and save yourself a button press... or hire someone each morning to have your car prepped and ready...JK.

mp

OP what acura did you keep referring too? RDX? As that's the only Acura I know with a comparable turbo?

Originally Posted by mpress

Needscafe....Stop using the parking brake and save yourself a button press... or hire someone each morning to have your car prepped and ready...JK.

mp

Why would I put the wear on my transmissions.

Thanks everyone! Glad you all are finding it helpful. Prior car was an Acura TL (type S). And being a Japanese car, it was extremely reliable. Well not really!! as you're about to find out. The following is the work done to the car PRIOR to 75k miles and PRIOR to the 4 year mark. This was a non-turbo NA V6 engine built in Japan, with the car assembled in the US. Here goes: EGR Valve (exhaust gas release valve) replaced at 17k, both catalytic converters replaced at 19k!, sunroof window seal replaced at 17k, battery replaced twice 19k and 45k, engine temperature sensor replaced 55k, entire transmission replaced! 62k, serpentine belt/tensioner pulley replaced 70k, soft-warped rotors resurfaced twice 19k and 36k, then replaced at 60k, 3 sets of tires because of bad alignment 20k, 40k, 75k, despite having alignment done 4 times at two different dealers (2 were in 1 week). In addition to all this madness, I kept up with the regularly scheduled maint every 5k. So this my friends, is a japanese (Honda motor Co.) car. It has run ok for the next 35k miles without a peep. I actually 'babied' this car in terms of driving, so all those mechanical issues seems pathetic to me since I did not abuse the car. In fact, the paint, leather, engine compartment all look new. Goes to show that stereotypes about cars don't always hold true (such as what brand is reliable, blah, blah).

Of note, I'm taking the 528i tomorrow for first oil change (break in period over). Gonna have tires looked at because of the slight vibration at 70-75mph as mentioned previously. Want to make sure it is indeed temperature related and not something i'll be dealing with in summer (like poor balancing). This is really not bothersome to me because if these tires give me trouble, I'm going to switch them to michelin non-RFTs. I think it'll be ok tho. Also, my passenger seat has a faint pop sound occasionally in turns. Since this is a known issue for my build, I'm not worried, will just get the seat back tightened. Plus you really have to listen hard to hear it. Adjusting the headrest did not work, sorry.

Otherwise, engine has been awesome, actually noticed increased power after we hit 1000miles (well more like 1040 because it was the next time we started the car). Feels like there is more torque with same type of driving from a stoplight. In sport mode, have noticed that the gear shift speeds are faster (but shift at approx the same RPMs as before so no change there). Another thing, which is quite weird is that if you simply touch the shortcut numbered keys on the Nav, you can preview what you are about to push and select. Gotta say, whoever thought of that was the freakin man!! Also whoever thought of little touches like the red reflectors on the doors when opened, and the way the lights "open up their eyes" when switched on, along with the radiator flaps that close when the car is off (in the front), those are all signs of a carefully thought out vehicle that makes a BMW, a BMW.

Lastly, I probably wouldn't try to overboost an engine like the N20. At least not yet. The horsepower gains you'll achieve will not be practical for your 90-95% driving, and you (or whatever poor soul purchases your car after a lease) will likely have an engine that is not so reliable anymore, even if you reverse the changes. Damage will be done. Not only that, would you really want to "race" an overboosted 4 cyl 2.0L engine on a close to 4000lb car, on a track full of twin turbo V6's or V8's? I wouldn't, unless I had a really good fire extinguisher on hand while wearing a flame retardant suit Besides, with boosting like that, you can throw the gas mileage advantage out the window, begging the question, why did we buy a 4 cyl again? Hard to tell my tone, but i'm not trying to put anyone down, especially Tokyo4Bimmer. I'm really glad you (Tokyo4Bimmer) put up those links and am very excited to hear about your car's exhaust tune. It would be cool to hear a sound clip when you have it done! Might spark a new trend for people who want a different sound with the stock N20. Still wouldn't try to boost that engine, no matter how well made. (I used to race my Nissan Maxima with all the hookups, so I can tell you from tuner experience).

Hello BlackGato: I am really appreciative and happy with your good advice. Like yourself I have also been through a lot with tuning of cars and driving on race tracks. I had three Mazda RX-7s (2xFC3S and 1xFD3S) and 2 x Saab 9000 Aero.

I agree with you that any aggressive tuning of the N20 may not be in character with the F11 car. I will nevertheless experiment a little with relatively mild tuning to enhance the engine performance a little (while always maintaining the possibility of resetting the computer back to its original state). I am not even up to 1000 miles yet (you know we have km system in Japan). However, I have already noticed a response increase in Sport+ mode after 1100km. The improvement you are speaking about will probably be after my car pass 1600km.

I am actually already pretty happy with the quick response in Sport and Sport+ modes.

After I do the exhaust mod (sport catalyser into the standard enclosure so nothing changes visually) a month down the road, I may try to record the sound.

I am personally happy with the RFT tires, and as you know, I even have the M-Sport suspension with its harder ride. If I could have a second car (not easy in Tokyo) it would be the Lotus Elise (that just was discontinued in the USA), so maybe that tells you where I come from regarding taste in how I like a car to ride ;-)

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Why would I put the wear on my transmissions.

What wear could you put on by not pressing the parking brake?
The parking brake is a stationary thing, it does not releave any allready excisting stress.
And for wear you expect to there needs to be a motion to invoke it.
But there is no motion.
So what is the parking brake good for?

Originally Posted by Sophisto

What wear could you put on by not pressing the parking brake?
The parking brake is a stationary thing, it does not releave any allready excisting stress.
And for wear you expect to there needs to be a motion to invoke it.
But there is no motion.
So what is the parking brake good for?

There is a park pawl in the transmission which bears the load when the car is not parked on the parking brake. If you are parked flat, then yes, there is no difference. However, if you are parked on any kind of an incline, even slight, the entire weight of your car is resting on your transmission. Would I rather have that force be borne by a $10,000 transmission or a $500 parking brake. I know where my choice will be.

Thanks for the great review.
Good Luck and Enjoy.

My 528i "has left the factory and is ready to ship to the US"!!!! Can't wait. Comfort Access, side and front view cams, technology package, cold weather package, premium package, titanium silver, oyster/black, anthracite wood.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Are these the same geniuses who specified 3,000 to 5,000 mile oil intervals and 50k coolant intervals when the customer paid for it, but now that it's on their dime seem to think that oil should go 12k to 17k miles and that coolant and transmission fluid is "lifetime"?

The bottom line is that they won't wear out before the warranty (even extended) is over so they really don't give a fig.

just a little fyi - BMW started recommending long oil change intervals several years before they started offering included maintenance. It had to do with them using fully synthetic oil. And at least by 2004 (maybe earlier) they were recommending transmission fluid changes at 100,000 miles.

Just wanted to update you all on the car so far (2500mi logged).

Took it for an oil change at 1200mi (out of pocket for break in service), hunter road force balanced tires (reduced vibration at 70mph previous experienced to manageable). My opinion of the run flat tires still stands...they suck (because they give a harsh/unforgiving ride) and I will switch them to something else once they wear down. Also, seat loose problem, fixed with some tightening by BMW Service.

We took a long road trip and used Active Cruise Control. Used the foot brake about 4-5 times the whole trip each way for the highway portion. At speeds over 55mph, I never reduced the car gap below 2 bars (2 seconds). At slower speeds I kept it at 4 bars. In aggressive DC traffic I used 1 bar (1 second) sparingly. The cruise works like a charm, but when you change lanes, it does not accurately detect the car in front unless you have most of the car is in the new lane. So don't do a slow lane change unless you want to hit the car in front. Just get in that lane! When you are in stop and go traffic, and the Active Cruise Control stops you...if you don't start moving in 3 seconds, the system flashes the cruise bars until you hit RES (resume), at which point the car starts moving again and either gets to the speed you set, or matches the car ahead. It's pretty nice, easy to get used to. If your approaching a car very fast, the system will scream at you to push the brake, and you better do it! It's too risky to rely on the cruise system. I mentioned a while back that the active cruise control also adds pre-collision warning. Well let me tell you, it's already worth all $2400 for the option!! A car infront of me WITHOUT working brake lights slammed its brakes...and guess what! My pre-collision warning (set to early) beeped loudly, I slammed my brakes and accident averted. Otherwise I'd be paying some Cheese-ball in a Saturn thousands of dollars for supposed neck injuries from whip lash. Hard to prove their brake lights weren't working if they were smashed up from a rear collision, know what I mean? Great option to get.

Heads up display, well it's still the most favorite feature and goes very well with the active cruise control. Exploring is easy, you never have to take your eyes off the road, check control messages are displayed. Quite honestly, I have barely looked at the speedometer since buying the car. The HUD has all that is needed. Even cooler is the fact that when you have friends in the car, you can shut Nav Lady OFF and just follow the HUD while your friends are wondering how you're so awesome with roads that you've never been on. Having Nav Lady OFF also allows you to enjoy your music without interruption.

Still don't like auto-start/stop. Just not useful for where I live. I still forget to disable it each time I drive the car, so the first stop always yields the same reaction: "come on man!".

Finally this evening I installed the BMW CCA grille badge which looks awesome. However, it was a complete pain in the butt to remove and install the grille so that I could screw on the badge. It was worth it but not for the faint of heart. At one point I had my whole hand between the radiator flaps and individually unclipped the grill off. A lady walking her dog was like "I'm glad you know what you're doing". Little did she know I had an iPad sitting on the sidewalk with big pictures on how to remove the grille. I've worked on cars before, but let me tell you, it was easier replacing the AC cabin filter on a previous car (which requires the removal of the passenger side of the dashboard) than removing this BMW grille safely. Bottom line, not for the faint of heart and unexperienced...if you mess up, you better have a set of grilles to replace with. Thankfully I didn't. Also when you rescrew the upper part of the hood, you have to make sure that your lights match with the seams and the hood has the proper gap. I was very careful with this and measured before and after. Wouldn't do this project again and would rather 3M to tape the grille badge on. Also tested the ACC and Parking sensors afterwards, no damage, but theoretically you could mess up the parking sensors.

I used to think the exact same thing about Comfort Access - how hard is it exactly to press a button? BUT, when my original BMW order swirled down the drain, I bought a Mercedes E350 that happened to have the MB equivalent to Comfort Access and its now a must have feature for me (I've even added to my options list for my next BMW). I have a pretty big bunch of keys to start with - but the number of times its been great to not have to fumble around trying to find keys in any one of multiple pockets - particularly in rainy Seattle. To know I can just walk up and get in without having to pull out half my pocket. Works great when trying to wrangle the kids too. Its definitely not a "gotta have it or else" feature, but now that I've had it.....I want to keep it. Its certainly grown on me.

Awesome write-up too.

Excellent writeup. Thanks. Makes my buying decisions easier.

Nice write-up. As far as the engine noise, as has already been discussed, this is largely due to the injectors. However, you will notice the engine is much louder when cold and once it has run for a couple of minutes you will notice is quiets down a good bit. This is because BMW's new engines run 'retarded' when cold to reduce emissions (by increasing exhaust temperatures to quickly heat up the catalysts), once the catalysts have reached operating temperature, the timing goes back to normal and everything quiets down under the hood.

As far as your starter concerns I just finished a course on start/stop (I am a BMW associate level technician at BMW Victoria) and I read that they are now using a starter that had something like 10 times more torque output (I can't recall what the exact number was but it's pretty darn stout). The reason they went with a starter with such a huge output was that they can turn these engines over with ease and barely even generate heat while doing so. This way (especially with the new lower compression turbo engines) they will last a very long time and can be used over and over all day, everyday without failing.

Originally Posted by Corey Milne

Nice write-up. As far as the engine noise, as has already been discussed, this is largely due to the injectors. However, you will notice the engine is much louder when cold and once it has run for a couple of minutes you will notice is quiets down a good bit. This is because BMW's new engines run 'retarded' when cold to reduce emissions (by increasing exhaust temperatures to quickly heat up the catalysts), once the catalysts have reached operating temperature, the timing goes back to normal and everything quiets down under the hood.

As far as your starter concerns I just finished a course on start/stop (I am a BMW associate level technician at BMW Victoria) and I read that they are now using a starter that had something like 10 times more torque output (I can't recall what the exact number was but it's pretty darn stout). The reason they went with a starter with such a huge output was that they can turn these engines over with ease and barely even generate heat while doing so. This way (especially with the new lower compression turbo engines) they will last a very long time and can be used over and over all day, everyday without failing.

Thanks for posting the insider info! Always welcome.

Anything else about these cars you've learned and are willing to share? We would appreciate it!

Great review!! It really helps to hear from someone who has all the options and what's worth getting. Could you please comment on your mileage? I drive about 80 miles per day in mixed traffic. What have you seen?

Thanks
Frank in Austin

Originally Posted by Tokyo4Bimmer

Thank you BlackGato for your excellent review.

I picked up my 2012 F11 Carbon-Black Touring M-Sport with N20 4-cyl here in Tokyo (where I live) on December 22 so I have been driving it for the past 2 months (except that I had three foreign business trips in as many months, so my car is still at 1000 km.)

I did not chose as many tech goodies, but focused on the M-package with tighter suspension, 19-inch wheels, and the nice panorama sunroof.

My previous car (for 4 years) was the E61 530i 6-cyl (N52), also a Carbon Black M-Sport Touring, so it is easy for me to compare the E61 6-cyl with the F11 4-cyl.

In addition to the engine, it also means that I switched from hydraulic steering (my car had the active steering option, which I liked) to the new electric steering (also with the "active" 4-wheel steer feature which is standard on deliveries in Japan).

It took a little bit of time to get used to the new electric steering which I would assign a slight minus as compared to hydraulic, but it is not a game-changer. I already got used to the electric steering and do not feel bothered by it. It is direct and precise in good BMW fashion, but lacks a bit of "feel".

I used to drive a tuned (ca. 300HP) Saab 9000 Aero with 2.3 litre turbo, so I am aware of what a good 4-cyl turbo engine can do. After spending two months with the N20 I can say that the new engine is really responsive and quick. I have no complaints about the abilities of this engine.

As BlackGato says, only the SOUND is a major downer. In particular I am disturbed by the direct inject clicking and had been searching all forums for other owners' experiences about this (and already have asked my dealer if this is really normal). I have been talking to others that my new BMW gasoline engine sounds like a DIESEL. Yesterday a car enthusiast friend came over with his rare Mercedes Benz AMG 6.0L V8 wagon and agreed that I should have my car looked over. I was actually on the way to my dealer when I found BlackGatos post. I will definitely like to listen to other cars with N20 engines, and as suggested, I should listen to cars with N55 engines as well.

Personally I intend to have my exhaust system carefully modified by a craftsman here in Japan that is able to custom sound tune the stock exhaust system by making alterations to the internal content of the muffler (i.e. it will maintain all legal requirements regarding maximum sound level and CO2 output while altering the "tone", and it will also create a less restricted air-flow.) I hope to avoid the typical "tuned car" sound, and would like to shoot for a slightly deeper, but sophisticated sound.

My other intended modification is to add the already aquired Kelleners Sport for N20 add-on tuning ECU that can easily be removed (and re-installed) according to need. It will add another 50 peak HP and also 100Nm torque on top of the standard spec. However, since the car is still in the "running in" stage, I intend to wait some more before installing.

For better looks, I have ordered the carbon kidney grilles from a US supplier.

Like BlackGato I am generally happy with the car and how it drives. I am less happy with the sound, and intend to carefully do something about it. It is dawning on me that the direct inject clicking may be something I have to live with? You wonder if the BMW engineers will be able to do something about this in the future?

There is already talk of a new generation BMW patented electric turbos (possibly applied in multiples) for future BMW models. Very exciting indeed. The reason I went to BMW from SAAB was that I wanted a car made by a self-owned company of car-entusiasts that care about all car-enthusiasts world-wide. After 15 great years of SAAB, and now my fifth year of BMW, I think that I have come to the right car brand.

What is the price difference between buying a BMW in Japan and the USA?

I really liked the soft close door system in my 2011. Much better than the one in Mercedes Benz.

It added a touch of luxury which now I have to slam the doors in order to get the proper seal. Understandable in a 3 series but not in a 5, 6 nor 7.

Nice review!

Great review. Im considering either the 535i or 528i to replace my 02 325i. I was wondering with the N20 engine, how's the engine vibration at idle? How about engine noise at highway crusing?

Thanks for the awesome write up. Enjoying my new 528xi as well. I did notice that the engine was noisier during certain times and I think the previous post explained it well (colder temps/warmer temps). My car is consistent with that.
One thing I did notice is that the pick up speed from a stoplight is pretty darn good in Eco mode. Just lightly pressed the gas and cruised along and caught up at 45mph in a few seconds to a Yaris who gassed like crazy from the light....
My car just hit 1,300 miles so put it in comfort mode yesterday on the hwy and increase speedometer beyond 65mph. I have a trip planned to Wisconsin today so plan on experiencing the sports mode function as well during my 3.5 hour trip
Keep the good posts and info coming folks!

Originally Posted by Baquir

Thanks for the awesome write up. Enjoying my new 528xi as well. I did notice that the engine was noisier during certain times and I think the previous post explained it well (colder temps/warmer temps). My car is consistent with that.
One thing I did notice is that the pick up speed from a stoplight is pretty darn good in Eco mode. Just lightly pressed the gas and cruised along and caught up at 45mph in a few seconds to a Yaris who gassed like crazy from the light....
My car just hit 1,300 miles so put it in comfort mode yesterday on the hwy and increase speedometer beyond 65mph. I have a trip planned to Wisconsin today so plan on experiencing the sports mode function as well during my 3.5 hour trip
Keep the good posts and info coming folks!

I dont think you need to keep it in eco mode for the entire break in period. Just keep it below 100 mph and no more than 4500 rpm. Occassionally and briefly going over 4500 a little will do no harm. And, it is important to drive under varying rpms. Or is the 528i break in routine different than the 535i break in.