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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 02-24-2012, 02:27 PM
dtwlubbock dtwlubbock is offline
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Mein Auto: 1991 525i
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1991 525i manual trans 227000 miles. Headed down the highway the other night the car died and the headlights went out for just a split second. Next day went to start the car and the starter did not make a noise. Checked the fusible link under the hood and under the seat both are good. Checked all fuses. Headlights, radio, odometer, autolocks, windows all work. Pulled each relay in all 4 boxes checked while energized and continuity all good. The white relay (master I assume) does click when ignition switch is turned on. Pulled starter and it is bad. Still checking cause before I put new starter on the car. Fuel pump relay doesnt engage when the ignition is turned to start but has power for the 30 & 87 contacts in the box. Same for the starter relay. I pulled the ignition switch and crossed the pins to the Hot wire. Still no fire to the starter relay. However when I checked the lower connections which would correspond to the small wires that come off of the ignition switch I heard a click in the back seat relay control module. Clicked on/off until I pulled the battery cable. I have looked in the all of the wiring diagrams that I can find and I cannot determine what the 3 smaller wires coming off of the ignition switch control. My question is; Is the relay box bad or do I have a problem somewhere else? I dont know where to go from this point and I dont want to just start putting new components in. Any insight will be appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2012, 05:01 PM
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1995i540 1995i540 is offline
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Your alternator stopped charging and battery is dead?
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  #3  
Old 02-24-2012, 07:00 PM
dtwlubbock dtwlubbock is offline
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No I had those tested also. Both are good.
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  #4  
Old 02-24-2012, 07:37 PM
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luckydog luckydog is offline
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I would get a load test on Battery.It has to hold 13 v for 30sec or so bad starters have been known to kill batteries. If the Alt is is good the batt would read 14 v when running. could be two or three thing happing at once starter ,batt ,Alt.the starter usually will act up for a few mths before failing.
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  #5  
Old 02-24-2012, 07:51 PM
dtwlubbock dtwlubbock is offline
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Mein Auto: 1991 525i
but I now cant start the car to see. The only data I have are the test that have been performed on the starter, which is bad and the battery and the alternator which tested good at the parts store. I dont want to install a new starter until I know what if any other issues exist because I cannot afford to ruin the new starter. My only way to start the car now would be to put it all back together and do a push start
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  #6  
Old 02-24-2012, 07:54 PM
dtwlubbock dtwlubbock is offline
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And a bad starter would not explain why the fuel pump relay would not engage when the ignition is switched to on.
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2012, 02:13 PM
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luckydog luckydog is offline
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If i remember coerrectly you have to be cranking for the pump to be switched on.# 3 position.
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  #8  
Old 02-25-2012, 11:30 PM
paperplane94 paperplane94 is offline
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Mein Auto: 1989 525i M20B25
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckydog View Post
If i remember coerrectly you have to be cranking for the pump to be switched on.# 3 position.
this is true^

Last edited by paperplane94; 02-25-2012 at 11:34 PM.
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  #9  
Old 02-26-2012, 05:51 AM
south26 south26 is offline
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Crank sensor?

Andy
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  #10  
Old 02-26-2012, 10:05 AM
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You should remove the screws and disconnect the fusible links and check them close up for cracks. Most times unless the wire from them breaks or they actually melt down, you can not tell just by a quick look.
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  #11  
Old 02-26-2012, 12:38 PM
paperplane94 paperplane94 is offline
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Originally Posted by CarDriver View Post
You should remove the screws and disconnect the fusible links and check them close up for cracks. Most times unless the wire from them breaks or they actually melt down, you can not tell just by a quick look.
Thats what I thought too but it sounds like he did use a DMM to check it in his first post.
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  #12  
Old 02-29-2012, 11:28 AM
dtwlubbock dtwlubbock is offline
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I did pull the fusible links physically out. All are good.

How do I check the Crank Sensor?
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  #13  
Old 02-29-2012, 02:05 PM
dtwlubbock dtwlubbock is offline
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Ok I did some reading and according to the Bentley manual the sensor should read aprox 1280 ohms for an M50 engine. Mine is reading 540 ohms which is what the manual says the M 20/30 egines should read. Can I do a loop into the plug to complete the circuit to see if that makes the relays engage or it likely to cause damage?
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  #14  
Old 02-29-2012, 02:10 PM
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With a bad CPS, you car will crank (Starter will engage and motor will turn) but will not start. So that is not your issue.

You are driving yourself nuts for no reason. You know the starter is bad. Replace it and be on your way. Your power went out momentarily when your starter shorted out internally. Stop worrying about the fuel pump. That has nothing to do with anything. I know that your fear is that something shorted out causing your starter to go bad. But it is some what the opposite. Your starter shorted out internally as starters often do.
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Last edited by CarDriver; 03-01-2012 at 04:14 AM.
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2012, 02:23 PM
dtwlubbock dtwlubbock is offline
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Ok I will trust you on this one. Ordered the starter. It will be here tomorrow.
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2012, 03:00 PM
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1995i540 1995i540 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtwlubbock View Post
Ok I will trust you on this one. Ordered the starter. It will be here tomorrow.
You could have also checked contactacts for starter, mine came loose due to corrosion.
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2012, 06:36 PM
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CarDriver CarDriver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtwlubbock View Post
Ok I will trust you on this one. Ordered the starter. It will be here tomorrow.
Great. I think you will be happy and on the road again very soon. I am only sorry I missed the part about you having the starter tested the first time I read your post. and I also missed the part about you having power to every thing else. :o((
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  #18  
Old 03-06-2012, 10:15 AM
dtwlubbock dtwlubbock is offline
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Success!! I should have listened to you earlier. Would have saved a ton of work. I replaced all of the intake seals and I noticed the valve cover was collecting oily dirt around it so I replaced it also. Replaced all of the vacumn hoses since I had the intake off and easy access.

Next issue: When you are traveling at any speed if you press the accelerator it stalls and acts like it is "missing" or not firing correctly. New fuel pump 3 months ago, injectors removed and professionally cleaned. New spark plugs 6 months ago. Checked compression all good. It also backfires but I hear it under the hood not the tailpipe.

If you take a pair of insulated pliers and push down on the ignition coils you can feel the ignition, the #6 (closest to the firewall) has a weak ignition. I switched coils out to confirm if it was a bad coil and swapped the spark plug out. Still has a weak ignition. All contacts are good on the electric connections. It smells like it is not burning all of the fuel. Smells "rich" No check engine light but the light does work. Doesnt have any speed or temperature correlation. There are times it will fly like it is supposed to but other times it chugga chugga chuggs.

Where do I start? I am off today and tomorrow. I am going to check the resistance of the O2 sensor and the mass air flow against the Bentley book. When I unplug the MAF it does not affect the way the car runs.

Last edited by dtwlubbock; 03-07-2012 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Added additional symptom
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  #19  
Old 03-07-2012, 06:11 PM
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CarDriver CarDriver is offline
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Have you inspected all of your spark plugs? If not, do so and see if they are burnt. The Main module (or computer) controls your ignition system. If you have replaced that, try putting the old one back in and see what that does.

Once you have ruled out the ignition system, check the timing.

If all of the above are in order then you should check the cams. Purchase a valve cover gasket kit first. Makes no sense to open it up and not replace the gasket while you are at it.
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Last edited by CarDriver; 03-08-2012 at 06:22 AM.
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