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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - 2016)

F10 / F11 (2011 - 2016)
The sixth generation of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) was produced from 2011 - 2016 with LCI updates arriving in 2014. In the US BMW offered a hatchback 5 Series Gran Truismo (F07) and the rest of the world also go a Station Wagon/Touring version F11.

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  #1  
Old 06-22-2016, 01:17 PM
kuchu kuchu is offline
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Cylinder Head Replacement

My car has been showing the service engine light for some time and the mechanic thinks a cylinder head replacement is required (out of pocket expense is going to be ~1500) after insurance covers some 11500. I was actually stunned by how much work is needed just because there were some barely visible scratches on a valve (I think it's called a valve...imagine you took a small piece of a metal tube and split it right down the center..there are minor scratches on the inside of the half tube and that apparently is serious enough to require an entire cylinder head replacement). Now, my question is...I'm getting this work done because I've been getting "Drivetrain malfunction. Drive moderately blah blah" for some time and I'm almost out of coverage. I'm really terrified that after this fix, I may still have that issue and my insurance may refuse to cover it. I've a 2011 535i M Sport, fully loaded at almost 100k and they estimated the value at 16k (I think they said they still needed to factor in any upgrades). I obviously don't want them to give me 16k for this car because it's still a good car and it's in great condition externally. In any case, anyone else had to do something similar with their F10? I'm at least helpful I still have insurance.

The mechanic seems like a pretty capable guy but it's my first time dealing with him and he seems to get irritated every time I ask questions. Maybe my questions are stupid...dunno So I'm just trying to get people's thoughts here.

Last edited by kuchu; 06-22-2016 at 01:19 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-22-2016, 01:58 PM
BobRae BobRae is offline
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What kind of insurance are you talking about? Warranty insurance? Will the insurance pay to have the car repaired at a dealership?
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  #3  
Old 06-22-2016, 03:02 PM
kuchu kuchu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRae View Post
What kind of insurance are you talking about? Warranty insurance? Will the insurance pay to have the car repaired at a dealership?
They probably would but I figured it would be better for me to get it done by an independent mechanic...albeit a capable one.
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  #4  
Old 06-22-2016, 03:11 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Are you burning oil due to a scratch valve stem? The valve stem is solid, so I don't se how it can be scratch on the inside. If I had to replace my cylinder head and the warranty is expiring, I would sell the car, unless you have a large sum of money put aside for repairs.
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Old 06-22-2016, 05:29 PM
kuchu kuchu is offline
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I'm not sure if I'm burning oil. I just know that my "Drive malfunction..." warning comes up if I'm on the highway and go over 70-80 or so. I generally don't so it doesn't affect my driving much but one time I did lose most of my power on the highway and it was a little unsettling.

Is this like a kiss of death for my car? Your recommendation had a sense of finality to it. I guess I was spoiled because I drove my 2001 330i up to 191k and I didn't spend any more than 3-4 on it between 100k-191k.
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  #6  
Old 06-22-2016, 07:19 PM
IanS100 IanS100 is offline
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"the mechanic thinks a cylinder head replacement is required"

With the amount of work and cost involved I'd want the mechanic to know not just think a cylinder head replacement is required. I would've thought a warranty company would also want considerably more certainly before stumping up that sort of money.

"Are you burning oil due to a scratch valve stem?
How could you see this without stripping the engine down?

The whole diagnosis seems a bit flakey so I'd be taking it to BMW and asking for their opinion.
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  #7  
Old 06-22-2016, 07:52 PM
kuchu kuchu is offline
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Sorry about the think vs know confusion. He is a former mechanic at my local dealership and based on his experience and the recommendation of his peers, he is suggesting we replace it. The warranty company did send an inspector to look at the scratches, etc before approving the coverage. I did ask him if he was 100% certain this would fix the issue and he flat out told me that he can never be 100% certain but he is pretty confident that's the root cause. I thought that was reasonable (not being 100% certain) but do you think mechanics should be absolutely sure about these things?

Last edited by kuchu; 06-22-2016 at 07:54 PM.
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  #8  
Old 06-22-2016, 08:14 PM
Carbon Fiver Carbon Fiver is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRae View Post
What kind of insurance are you talking about? Warranty insurance? Will the insurance pay to have the car repaired at a dealership?
Ditto. If you have a warranty/insurance (what exactly do you have?) that will cover it, why not have it done at a BMW dealership? And how did you get a 535i near $100k?
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  #9  
Old 06-22-2016, 09:23 PM
Trian Trian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbon Fiver View Post
And how did you get a 535i near $100k?
+1 And a 2011 at that?
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  #10  
Old 06-22-2016, 09:31 PM
kuchu kuchu is offline
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I meant fully loaded at 100k MILES
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  #11  
Old 06-23-2016, 10:22 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuchu View Post
Sorry about the think vs know confusion. He is a former mechanic at my local dealership and based on his experience and the recommendation of his peers, he is suggesting we replace it. The warranty company did send an inspector to look at the scratches, etc before approving the coverage. I did ask him if he was 100% certain this would fix the issue and he flat out told me that he can never be 100% certain but he is pretty confident that's the root cause. I thought that was reasonable (not being 100% certain) but do you think mechanics should be absolutely sure about these things?
There is no way for a mechanics to know for sure with these kind of problem, but if I was spending that kind of money, I would want a second opinion. By the way, did the mechanic already take the head out? How else was he able to see the scratch on the valve stem?
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  #12  
Old 06-23-2016, 11:11 AM
kuchu kuchu is offline
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Guys, I just swung by my dealer and one of my favorite service reps is now the manager so he actually told me to bring it in for an inspection (hopefully it will be free because I've some struggles trying to schedule anything with these guys and he seems ready to make amends). I'm going to do exactly that before taking any chances with this major work.
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2016, 12:52 PM
kuchu kuchu is offline
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So another update. The dealership think the issue is actually the turbo so now they're going to replace that instead of the cylinder head. That's obviously a smaller job so I'm somewhat please and hoping that this will really be the end of my problems.
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  #14  
Old 06-30-2016, 12:58 PM
IanS100 IanS100 is offline
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Well, easy mistake to make, cylinder head - turbo, damn nearly the same WTF, are you sure that mechanic isn't a plumber?
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  #15  
Old 06-30-2016, 01:26 PM
bagspacked bagspacked is offline
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Def go with the dealer if you're not paying - dealers service usually comes with a bit of a warranty attached to it, so it might help partially extend you if you're worried about your other warranty expiring.
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  #16  
Old 06-30-2016, 01:33 PM
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jerrybsal jerrybsal is offline
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It explains why your "former mechanic at a dealership" is just that.... Former. His whole diagnosis was a bit sketchy I'm betting the dealer is probably right and it's the turbo. How did he diagnose a scratch without taking apart the engine???? Find yourself another mechanic if he is getting irritated at your questions I would not let him add air to my tires much less take the engine apart.
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  #17  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:10 PM
kuchu kuchu is offline
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Yup, out of pocket cost was about the same for both so I'm definitely going with the dealership. And when I asked the dealership about how confident they were about this issue, they seemed a looooooooot more confident than my mechanic ever was so it made going with the dealer that much easier. As far as my mechanic is concerned, he still charged me $700 for the diagnosis but I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say maybe he didn't have access to all the instrumentation the dealership does. Anyway, let's wait and see how the car does with the new turbos...they could still come back to us and say you need to replace the cylinder head.
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  #18  
Old 06-30-2016, 08:17 PM
dewana421 dewana421 is offline
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Keep us posted and good luck.
I do also get a drive malfunction everytime I press hard on the accelerator. Some people said if battery charge is low it cause that to happen. Not too sure what the reason is. May be turbo like yours?
Also what exactly is turbo and where is it located? Is it a part and DIY possible?
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  #19  
Old 06-30-2016, 11:26 PM
IanS100 IanS100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewana421 View Post
Also what exactly is turbo and where is it located? Is it a part and DIY possible?
A turbo is a exhaust driven compressor that substantially increases the power of the engine. Messing with a turbo is only diy if you're a very competent and experienced mechanic, and removal will involve dismantling a substantial amount of the engine. My advice is leave well alone unless you know exactly what you're doing.
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  #20  
Old 06-30-2016, 11:42 PM
Cali Buk Cali Buk is offline
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What warranty do you have? Impressed they were willing G to pay 11500 for a repair.

Damn $700 for a diagnosis...

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  #21  
Old 07-14-2016, 08:30 AM
allferik allferik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewana421 View Post
Keep us posted and good luck.
I do also get a drive malfunction everytime I press hard on the accelerator. Some people said if battery charge is low it cause that to happen. Not too sure what the reason is. May be turbo like yours?
Also what exactly is turbo and where is it located? Is it a part and DIY possible?
I've recently started getting this same issue. On highway when I hit accelerator hard or not, I get the drivetrain malfunction and loss of power. Then when I restart car its gone and car is fine. Is this what you are experiencing? Im looking to replace the HPFP to stop this. I hope its not the Cylinder head as if thats the case I'm outta warranty, and I would just sell the car and not bother.
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  #22  
Old 07-14-2016, 01:51 PM
BamaF10 BamaF10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Buk View Post
What warranty do you have? Impressed they were willing G to pay 11500 for a repair.

Damn $700 for a diagnosis...

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I'd love to know what warranty company as well.

But there are several comments from the OP that seem really strange.

like a $700 diagnosis fee that he's willing to pay even though the indy mechanic wasn't even close in his guess as to what was wrong. I could see paying a reasonable diagnosis fee if it was correct, but something this badly diagnosed shouldn't be paid.

Can't believe the 3rd party warranty company was willing to pay 11,500 for such a shiitty diagnosis.
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  #23  
Old 07-14-2016, 05:35 PM
kuchu kuchu is offline
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Cali Buk, the warranty company is called Route 66 and it was sold to me through my credit union.

allferik, I'm having exactly the same issue. Drive Malfunction followed by loss of power and restarting the engine fixes the issue.

BAMAF10, I had to pay the $700 because the indy mechanic told me before he started working on the car that he called the warranty company and they said they would not cover the inspection. He did say that he could eat most of it if he had to fix the car since the time it took to take the car apart would be charged to the repairs anyway. So he wouldn't have charged me the full amount if I had gone through with the head replacement but I had to walk and pay the $700 because I wasn't comfortable replacing the head without getting a second opinion.

So the dealer just gave me the car back after replacing the turbo and some extensive testing but I had the same issue as I was driving out of the dealership so I had to drop off the car for more work. I'm only smiling because this is a little too crazy right now and I'm not quite sure how to react. I'm just hoping that they don't come back and say oooops, we still need to replace the head because I'm not sure my warranty company is going to be ok with that. They just spent 5500 on the turbo and they were a little surprised we decided not to replace the head. If we go now and say, let's replace the head, they may simply refuse to do it...so yeah, I'm not sure what's going to happen next.

Last edited by kuchu; 07-14-2016 at 05:36 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-14-2016, 06:25 PM
allferik allferik is offline
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So they fixed the turbo and some
Other stuff, and the light came
On when you left dealer? That's just horrible. Like for a car that expensive this **** shouldn't be happening.

Anywys I replaced my fuel pump today because we had a couple BMW techs run tests and it was showing mine looked like it was reading the fuel levels wrong causing the pressure to be off. Hopefully this solves it for me, if not looks like I'll be fixing the HPFP as well :/
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  #25  
Old 07-14-2016, 06:34 PM
kuchu kuchu is offline
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Yeah, I think they drove it for 20+ miles of testing but I was able to repro the same old issue literally 100 yards from the dealer. Not really a car person so I don't know if some of these things have a habit of coming and going but yeah, I'm a little bummed out.
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