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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 02-29-2012, 12:33 PM
bubear99 bubear99 is offline
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Engine malfunction indicator

Engine felt like it lost power this morning and became sluggish. Went to lunch and noticed the yellow indicator that looks like an engine was showing. Manual says it's the engine malfunction warning and needs to be brought in for service ASAP. Called the service dept and the lady told me that since I need a loaner (I'm 35 miles from the only dealer) the first availability was over a week out. Told her what the manual said and she transferred me to my SA's VM. Should I be worried about this? If further damage is caused because I have to drive it another week, who is liable? Still waiting to hear back from my SA.
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  #2  
Old 02-29-2012, 12:37 PM
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Go to the dealer ASAP. While you are there, make them find a loaner or rental for you.
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  #3  
Old 02-29-2012, 12:44 PM
bubear99 bubear99 is offline
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I'm actually 60 miles away right now and have a meeting this afternoon so I can't get there until tomorrow. Maybe I'll go over there tomorrow morning, even if I don't hear back from them today. I was just shocked that she said we can see you in a week. This dealership sells BMW's and Subaru's. Maybe she thought I was driving a Subi.
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  #4  
Old 02-29-2012, 04:58 PM
bubear99 bubear99 is offline
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Ok, I spoke to my SA and he told me the manual says to take it in right away for liability reasons. He said it wasn't urgent unless it was flashing/blinking. At this point my BS alarm is going off. I couldn't get an appointment until next Friday (if I wanted a loaner). I asked if they had any 5 series in the loaner pool because the 3's are really cramped. He told me 3's are all they offer and they would probably get rid of them in the future because of cost. I'm thinking of contacting the service manager. Am I being too demanding? I was at a stoplight earlier and it felt like the turbo didn't kick in until I was all the way through the intersection. It definitely feels like something is wrong.
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  #5  
Old 02-29-2012, 05:00 PM
phillyreem phillyreem is offline
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Why debate. Take it in. In fact, tow it in. They must put you in a loaner or rental
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  #6  
Old 02-29-2012, 06:40 PM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by bubear99 View Post
Ok, I spoke to my SA and he told me the manual says to take it in right away for liability reasons. He said it wasn't urgent unless it was flashing/blinking. At this point my BS alarm is going off. I couldn't get an appointment until next Friday (if I wanted a loaner). I asked if they had any 5 series in the loaner pool because the 3's are really cramped. He told me 3's are all they offer and they would probably get rid of them in the future because of cost. I'm thinking of contacting the service manager. Am I being too demanding? I was at a stoplight earlier and it felt like the turbo didn't kick in until I was all the way through the intersection. It definitely feels like something is wrong.

Tell the SA to put that in writing... explain to him it is just "for liability reasons"...you want him documenting that they will take responsibility for any issues or accidents that arise.

Tell him you are dropping it off tomorrow and he can get you a loaner or a rental, his choice. If he says no, then talk to the service manager- just say 'the car does not feel safe to drive'.

HOWEVER, YOU are definitely being picky with asking about what kind of loaner you will get. Without notice, you take WHATEVER they can get- buick, ford, toyota...enterprise rental...whatever. Be nice and gracious, don't whine about that.

I can tell you this: be a dick about the loaner, press them on 5 versus 3, or about not getting a BMW, and you will earn yourself a place in their "This is an Owner who does not deserve our respect" category.


GL

A
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  #7  
Old 02-29-2012, 06:58 PM
bubear99 bubear99 is offline
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I sent the service manager an email stating the issues and safety concerns (especially given I drive in remote areas with little to no cell service). I actually wasn't a dick (this time) about my request for a 5. The reason for my request was that I had to pick up my kids last time I got a 3 and they were really cramped in the back. Thanks for the input, however if they break out a lime green Yugo there will be a $hit storm. I truly appreciated the "liability" comment as a fellow SAA member (that's Smart Asses Anonymous for you nonmembers). :-)
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  #8  
Old 02-29-2012, 07:02 PM
alphaod alphaod is offline
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If you need to get it to the dealership, but don't want to risk damage, call Roadside Assistance for a towing.
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  #9  
Old 02-29-2012, 09:41 PM
2011x5d 2011x5d is offline
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Engine light was on not once but 3 times!!!

I had the exactly same problem back in Jan. The service center kept my car for a day and told me it was because of the fault code and they installed the latest software... Didn't make any sense for me anyway. The engine light was on the third time 3 days after my 2nd visit for the same reason. The service center kept my car for 10 days!! They told me they had to contact BMW NA for tech support on fixing the car!!!

I'm now fighting with BMW NA and requested a buyback. Just got a call today and told me the car didn't qualify for the buyback. Anyone knows anything about Lemon Law in CA? Thanks.
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  #10  
Old 02-29-2012, 09:48 PM
bubear99 bubear99 is offline
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Wow, I feel so much better after reading that.
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  #11  
Old 02-29-2012, 10:49 PM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by 2011x5d View Post
I had the exactly same problem back in Jan. The service center kept my car for a day and told me it was because of the fault code and they installed the latest software... Didn't make any sense for me anyway. The engine light was on the third time 3 days after my 2nd visit for the same reason. The service center kept my car for 10 days!! They told me they had to contact BMW NA for tech support on fixing the car!!!

I'm now fighting with BMW NA and requested a buyback. Just got a call today and told me the car didn't qualify for the buyback. Anyone knows anything about Lemon Law in CA? Thanks.
You 'requested' a buyback?? without already KNOWING what the rules were????

No wonder BMW treats people like crap when it comes to buybacks.

I know a lot about it. Tell me what is wrong and how many days- documented by printed BMW work orders- the car was at dealerships. PM to avoid hijacking the OP.


OP, horror stories abound- you are FAR from needing to worry though...
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Last edited by ard; 02-29-2012 at 10:52 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-01-2012, 05:50 AM
BimmerVSR BimmerVSR is offline
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Originally Posted by bubear99 View Post
He said it wasn't urgent unless it was flashing/blinking. At this point my BS alarm is going off.
I've always thought this to be true. I think the manual even states that if blinking, stop driving. If on solid, then OK to drive but you should take in for service soon. Solid CEL I always thought meant an emissions related issue?

I cannot confirm this as my X5 is back in the shop (it's 2nd home!) so I can't go check the manual.
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2012, 08:52 AM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by BimmerVSR View Post
I've always thought this to be true. I think the manual even states that if blinking, stop driving. If on solid, then OK to drive but you should take in for service soon. Solid CEL I always thought meant an emissions related issue?

I cannot confirm this as my X5 is back in the shop (it's 2nd home!) so I can't go check the manual.
If the car is performing noticeable different, I would disagree with BMWs advice.

Most MFGs say "CEL means emissions issue"...which is true...but your comment highlights what many consumers assume which is "Oh, it is just a technical emissions issue, like it is dirtying the air a bit, and not a real problem with the engine"

This is absolutely false.

Must be why I see idiots driving around with the yellow engine light on too...

While the flashing light is reserved for a serious "engine can be damaged" issue (like very lean conditions) and is often accompanied by a 'limp mode' in which output power is reduced, any time the CEL is on something isn't right. When the engine is also running poorly, it isn't just 'emissions'.

A
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2012, 09:13 AM
bubear99 bubear99 is offline
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X5 ran fine this morning, but light was still on. Just ran a few errands and noticed the light was off. I'm still going to take it in for my scheduled appt next week so I can at least have documentation. Emailed the service manager last night about getting in sooner, but haven't received a response.
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2012, 09:38 AM
ard ard is offline
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Emailed? I'm sure he is getting right on that request.

Next thing you'll be telling him the light is off and he will say 'it must have been the gas cap, no need to bring it in unless the light is on'.

Here's the deal. A new error sets a code and turns on the light. The code remains until reset. The LIGHT however, will go off if the error is not currently present for X starts. But there WAS an error and it DID set a code. Even with the light off there is an code stored to be read. My guess will be intake air sensor plausibility or related.

DO NOT allow them to reset the code and say "nothing wrong at present". GET THE CODE. Tell him to write ON THE WORK ORDER, "Call customer with all diagnostic codes prior to starting work on repairs." (You'll just say thanks, go ahead) but this way you'll be able to save the aggravation of them screwing up and forcing a return visit.

GL

A
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2012, 11:41 AM
bubear99 bubear99 is offline
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Thanks Ard, I'll definitely be sure to ask for the code. I emailed him because I'm in sales and that's how I do a lot of my communicating. Sometimes we forget that not everyone has email available almost 24/7.
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2012, 12:08 PM
ard ard is offline
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We ALL communicate via email and web forums and chat and text...but that is because "we" are a hyperselected population of 'e-savy' people.

it is very easy to lose sight of the fact that there is still a world of letters and phone calls and face to face meetings. And indeed it is much easier to ignore people electronically- not a matter of 'availability'.

Crap, I'm annoyed when my flight doesnt have wifi.

A
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2012, 04:10 PM
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ductman ductman is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
Emailed? I'm sure he is getting right on that request.

Next thing you'll be telling him the light is off and he will say 'it must have been the gas cap, no need to bring it in unless the light is on'.

Here's the deal. A new error sets a code and turns on the light. The code remains until reset. The LIGHT however, will go off if the error is not currently present for X starts. But there WAS an error and it DID set a code. Even with the light off there is an code stored to be read. My guess will be intake air sensor plausibility or related.

DO NOT allow them to reset the code and say "nothing wrong at present". GET THE CODE. Tell him to write ON THE WORK ORDER, "Call customer with all diagnostic codes prior to starting work on repairs." (You'll just say thanks, go ahead) but this way you'll be able to save the aggravation of them screwing up and forcing a return visit.

GL

A
Just a quick question, why does the light go off if the code has not been dealt with, it would seem to me that with most people if the light goes off they would assume everything is " fixed " or will the light come on again in a specified time again ?
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  #19  
Old 03-01-2012, 04:22 PM
bubear99 bubear99 is offline
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I don't know why it went away. Without sites like this, I might have ignored it and moved on. However, thanks to people like Ard (as blunt as he is) I will take it in and ask for the code.

Thanks again BluntARD. Hey I think I just invented a new word. :-P
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  #20  
Old 03-01-2012, 04:40 PM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by ductman View Post
Just a quick question, why does the light go off if the code has not been dealt with, it would seem to me that with most people if the light goes off they would assume everything is " fixed " or will the light come on again in a specified time again ?
The light is set when a fault occurs. If it was a transient fault, happens once, and not longer recurs, the idea is that it is not causing a situation where the engine is causing increased pollution. Just a one time fault has zero impact on emissions. If the fault is there with every start cycle, then the light stays on and yes you need to bring it in. But once the light comes on, if subsequent start cycles show no new or present fault, the CEL is turned off but the code is stored.

The classic (not on a diesel) is the loose gas cap. The cap is loose, you fix it with the next tank, the light goes off. No increased emissions- and no need to bring it in.

Diesels- in particular BMW X5ds seem to have intake air temp errors. Throws a code due to numbers being out of tolerance. BMWs been chasing this for 2 years. new thermal sensors, new software, etc,etc. new diagnostic code. Very unimpressive. But we are getting ahead of this. Report back

Should be 4 characters. Like 24D7, etc

A
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  #21  
Old 03-09-2012, 10:38 PM
bubear99 bubear99 is offline
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Dropped my X5 off at 9:15 this morning. I requested that the code be noted and I be notified. My SA said that was the first time he's had that request. As of 4 this afternoon, no word from the service dept. I called and tried to get an update. Eventually had to leave a message. The service dept closes at 6, so at 5, we packed up and headed over there (40 min drive). I finally get a call when I'm about 15 min away and I'm told that the service tech couldn't figure out the code, or some BS like that, and they would have to keep it for the weekend. Couldn't figure it out? How about we didn't get to your car in the 8 hours we had it, so keep the 328i (the seat belts in these stupid cars are NOT booster seat friendly) for the weekend. I guess when you are the only BMW service dept for 150 miles you don't care if your service SUCKS. ALDERSON BMW in Lubbock, TX needs Serious help.
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:57 AM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by bubear99 View Post
Dropped my X5 off at 9:15 this morning. I requested that the code be noted and I be notified. My SA said that was the first time he's had that request. As of 4 this afternoon, no word from the service dept. I called and tried to get an update. Eventually had to leave a message. The service dept closes at 6, so at 5, we packed up and headed over there (40 min drive). I finally get a call when I'm about 15 min away and I'm told that the service tech couldn't figure out the code, or some BS like that, and they would have to keep it for the weekend. Couldn't figure it out? How about we didn't get to your car in the 8 hours we had it, so keep the 328i (the seat belts in these stupid cars are NOT booster seat friendly) for the weekend. I guess when you are the only BMW service dept for 150 miles you don't care if your service SUCKS. ALDERSON BMW in Lubbock, TX needs Serious help.
Sorry to hear.

Leave the service manager a message and tell him you are leaving today on a trip and will return in 10 days. You'll bring his loaner back then.

Explain that the SA lied to you when he said the tech was unable to get the code- the actual truth was that they never looked at the car. You expect them not to lie. As a result, the manager needs to re-assign your service to a different agent, but you will not deal with a liar.

Finally, dropping a car off on Friday or even Thursday, is a risk... an SA may need to prioritize "those that we can get done and out by 5PM Friday" over those that "we don't know what is wrong and the owner is being a PITA".

Don't be afraid to change SAs until you find one that is stand up.

A
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  #23  
Old 03-10-2012, 11:37 AM
Mrt0006 Mrt0006 is offline
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Wow! They cant even spare a few minutes to hook up an OBD to at least inform you of the error codes?
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  #24  
Old 03-10-2012, 02:44 PM
ard ard is offline
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Wow! They cant even spare a few minutes to hook up an OBD to at least inform you of the error codes?
That's 10 minutes the tech cannot work on another car....
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  #25  
Old 03-11-2012, 09:32 AM
Spcled1 Spcled1 is offline
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My 2011 did the same thing so they spent about 4 hours re downloading all the software.. Sort of scares me, all these computers onboard. Took away the issues though. Loaner car on both visits were cars taken off the lot since other loaner cars were out already. What I have seen from BMW so far is great customer service.
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