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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 03-03-2012, 05:14 PM
b52murph b52murph is offline
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Location: Dale City VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 85
Mein Auto: `97 540i
New Cats?

Well--all four o2 sensors have now been replaced with the correct items (see my earlier post regarding heated vs. non-heated sensors). Most of the weird problems have gone away, but now--twice--after 100-200 miles and/or 6-8 hours of driving the MIL is coming back on...error is reading as below (from INPA):

40 CAT converting OBDII Error !!
Error frequency : 2
Logistic counter: 40
Engine speed 1720.00 rpm
Load signal 2.45 ms
Intake air temperature 3.00 degrees C
Fehler aufgetreten vor 7.50 h
Hexcode=28D25240FF4302282B3144A9002D3B54 0.00 [HEX]
min value fall below
axhaust relevant Error (after checkup MIL on)
Error present
Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
45 CAT converting Bank 2 OBDII Error !!
Error frequency : 2
Logistic counter: 40
Engine speed 1680.00 rpm
Load signal 1.85 ms
Intake air temperature 3.00 degrees C
Fehler aufgetreten vor 7.50 h
Hexcode=2DD25240FF4302282A2544A9002C3D54 0.00 [HEX]
min value fall below
axhaust relevant Error (after checkup MIL on)
Error present
Sporadic error

--------

CPS is new. Thermostat is new. Any chance there's anything else I need to replace before I bite the bullet and replace the cats? If so, can anyone recommend a GOOD (non-jury rigged) aftermarket replacement brand?

Thanks in advance...
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  #2  
Old 03-03-2012, 05:20 PM
edjack edjack is offline
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Location: San Jose, CA
 
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Posts: 9,432
Mein Auto: '97 540i 6 speed
I'm having a lot of trouble divining the mileage on the car, which, BTW, you did not state.

If more than 100k, the cats are probably shot. I put a pair of Magnaflows on at about 125k, and they are great.
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  #3  
Old 03-03-2012, 05:24 PM
b52murph b52murph is offline
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Location: Dale City VA
 
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Posts: 85
Mein Auto: `97 540i
Thanks! Sorry, thought my signature was there.....car has 174K. Cats were replaced (very aftermarket, welded in) by a previous owner...

b52murph
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  #4  
Old 03-03-2012, 05:57 PM
edjack edjack is offline
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Mein Auto: '97 540i 6 speed
How many miles ago? Most aftermarket cats die in about 50k. The only way to know for sure is to perform a back-pressure test. A pressure gauge is installed in the pre-cat sensor bung.

Excessive back pressure will cause random multiple misfires. Ask me how I know.
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  #5  
Old 06-16-2012, 08:03 AM
b52murph b52murph is offline
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Location: Dale City VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 85
Mein Auto: `97 540i
edjack, thank you for your insight.

It's taken 3 months to get all of this done...turns out the previous owner WELDED the exhaust system front to back with cheap aftermarket cats. The exhaust manifold flanges had rusted. Ended up going with direct-fit Magnaflow cats and a good set of used manifolds from eBay. Took shop 8+ hours of solid work with cutters, etc., to get the old parts off and cleaned up so that the new cats could be installed. Total cost installed was almost $1900!

So, all this was done last weekend, and I'm thinking...good to go, right?

Yesterday a got a CEL again...ran codes with INPA and got ANOTHER Code 45--Cat Bank II.

So, what else can trigger Cat Bank II? O2 sensors are new (all four), both Cats are new, the crankcase ventilation at the back of the intake is new....
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`97 540i 205K
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  #6  
Old 06-16-2012, 08:52 AM
edjack edjack is offline
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Mein Auto: '97 540i 6 speed
Are the O2 sensors from Bosch?

I just found this info this AM. Might want to consider it: http://technotes.deccats.com/bmw_valve.pdf
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  #7  
Old 06-16-2012, 01:18 PM
b52murph b52murph is offline
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Location: Dale City VA
 
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Mein Auto: `97 540i
Yes...both Bosch OEM O2 sensors. Changed less than 6K miles ago. Brand new. Code 45 has now come back twice, details below.

First re-indication of a Code 45 (bank 2) was 3.4 hours after codes had been cleared by the shop. At 7.1 hours after codes had cleared, the car threw a "code 35--Lambda regulator-Adaption QL additiv" I don't think the first code (3.4 hours) caused the CEL to come on; it was the second code at 7.1 hours that tripped the CEL.

I cleared the codes yesterday about a quarter way--Delaware--into a long (520 mile) afternoon drive from the D.C. area to the Boston area.

I needed to get an inspection sticker today (car has N.H. plates and needs to pass N.H. emissions), so I checked my DME again with INPA before going to the inspection station. After clearing codes yesterday, the car "re-threw" a code 40 (bank 1) at 1 hour after the reset and a code 45 (bank 2) 2.7 hours after the reset. With both of those codes stored, the CEL was not turned on.

Since I was concerned that both codes in the system (even without a CEL) would cause me to fail emissions; I thought I should clear the codes before trying to get an inspection sticker. Turns out the system goes into "Not Ready" mode for a certain number of cycles before it will pass emissions. So...have to go back later to try and get a sticker. Quite embarressed.

Thoughts?
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Last edited by b52murph; 06-16-2012 at 01:22 PM.
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  #8  
Old 06-16-2012, 05:03 PM
b52murph b52murph is offline
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Location: Dale City VA
 
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Mein Auto: `97 540i
Actually, I think I translated the German wrong on the INPA run--see below. It should read that that 7.1 hours BEFORE checking the codes, it was giving me the Code 35; and 3.4 engine hours ago was the first occurrence of the Code 45.

Likewise, I mistranslated the second portion--which should read "1 engine hour ago, it threw a code 40; 2.7 engine hours ago it threw a code 45"

-----INPA below----
E R R O R M E M O R Y R E P O R T
-------------------------------------
Date: 06/15/12 19:26:19
ECU: DM528DS0
JobStatus: OKAY
Variant: DM528DS0
-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT: 2 errors in error memory !
-------------------------------------------------------------
35 Lambda regulator-Adaption QL additiv OBDII Error !!
Error frequency : 1
Logistic counter: 33
Engine speed 680.00 rpm
Load signal 1.40 ms
Intake air temperature 33.75 degrees C
Fehler aufgetreten vor 7.10 h
Hexcode=2311004200400121111C6DB806FEFEFE 0.00 [HEX]
max value exceed
axhaust relevant Error (after checkup MIL on)
Error not present
Static error
-------------------------------------------------------------
45 CAT converting Bank 2 OBDII Error !!
Error frequency : 3
Logistic counter: 40
Engine speed 1240.00 rpm
Load signal 1.45 ms
Intake air temperature 28.50 degrees C
Fehler aufgetreten vor 3.40 h
Hexcode=2D92D242FF4203281F1D66DD062F2184 0.00 [HEX]
min value fall below
axhaust relevant Error (after checkup MIL on)
Error not present
Sporadic error
================================================== ===========
-------
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2012, 08:44 PM
b52murph b52murph is offline
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Location: Dale City VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 85
Mein Auto: `97 540i
Checked codes again today...using my handheld OBDII reader, not INPA.

The "I/M monitors" section jumped from not ready to ready...and no codes were shown. However, still wondering why I would have the Codes 40/45 for bad cats after new O2s and new Cats. Is that code tripped by any other component that could need replacement?

thanks
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  #10  
Old 06-19-2012, 06:55 PM
b52murph b52murph is offline
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Location: Dale City VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 85
Mein Auto: `97 540i
Don't mean to keep bumping my own post, so apologies in advance.

I completed another 515mi drive last nite back home. At the 400mi mark (and about 460mi after reseting the codes) the check engine light came back on.

Before my drive yesterday, the I/M monitors on my handheld OBDII scanner (couldn't find something similar in INPA) all reflected "Ready" except for O2 sensors. This scanner has a separate option for O2 sensor heaters and O2 sensors. (Actron CP9135). When I checked the codes with this scanner again today, the "O2 sensor" had flipped to ready; I can only surmise that the "not ready" to "ready" flipped right about the time my CEL came on.

And again...the code is P0420/P0430. I haven't put it onto INPA yet to see if Codes 40/45 are again showing in that system; but I can only guess that they are. The AFT sensors are NEW Bosch 13475 in late February; the Forward sensors are new Bosch 13559 installed in January.

What am I missing?

In advance, thanks!
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  #11  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:09 PM
edjack edjack is offline
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Mein Auto: '97 540i 6 speed
If the cats have more than 130k on them, they may be bad. Do they rattle when struck with a rubber mallet?
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:23 PM
b52murph b52murph is offline
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Location: Dale City VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 85
Mein Auto: `97 540i
Quote:
Originally Posted by edjack View Post
If the cats have more than 130k on them, they may be bad. Do they rattle when struck with a rubber mallet?
Nope...these cats are BRAND NEW...Magnaflows...23306 & 23058, direct fit. Prev owner had WELDED the old ones in; took the shop over 8 hours of cutting work to get them installed, and the old pipework and old exhaust manifolds (which had rusted) out. Reputable shop in the No. VA area.....

Hence...my frustration....
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Last edited by b52murph; 06-19-2012 at 08:24 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-20-2012, 07:50 AM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Mein Auto: 530I/Stick Blown
The problem with after market Cat is a hit or miss. I've DEC cats in my 97 and occasionally it will throw a CAT efficiency code but there's no performance hinder. I just have to learn to live with it.
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  #14  
Old 06-20-2012, 06:44 PM
b52murph b52murph is offline
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Location: Dale City VA
 
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Mein Auto: `97 540i
The plot thickens. I'm now throwing a P1175 code as well. Bad MAF or a defective, yet barely used O2 sensor? Can the P1175 even be related to the Cat codes?

I've wasted huge $$$ if changing the cats to aftermarket still throw a code; I need the codes clear with all systems "ready" to pass emissions for inspection.

thanks
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  #15  
Old 09-08-2012, 09:29 PM
b52murph b52murph is offline
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Location: Dale City VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 85
Mein Auto: `97 540i
Just figured I'd post a follow up to see if anyone has any new ideas. I've been chasing ghosts! The P1175 turned out to be a missing vacuum cap at the back of the CCV; replaced that and voila! No more P1175.

However, the P0420/P0430 reliably return after code reset after about 3.5 hours or driving or 4-5 start/stop cycles. I assume this is when the OBD sensors flip themselves from "not ready" to "ready" although I've never seen definitively how many drive cycles it takes to flip the sensors. Oddly, I can't find this ready/not-ready information in INPA....

I've posted the latest graphics from INPA to see if anyone else has thoughts on the cause of my codes 40/45. The adaptations and codes are reset each time. I chased the idle speed (i.s. controler air) discrepancy for a bit; but from other experts, I'm hearing that this overage (if it really is a problem) is not likely to be the cause of the P0420/P0430 (codes 40/45).

In advance, thanks!
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