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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
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  #1  
Old 03-05-2012, 10:32 PM
emiliouf emiliouf is offline
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Advice on a good price on a 2011 535i Demo

Hi all,

I am trying to find out what a good counteroffer would be on a 2011 BMW 535i with the options and price below. It was a demo, and I have checked it out. It's immaculate and has the color and extras I want (black exterior and black interior). Any advice would be appreciated.

Price $59,995

5,634 MILES
Dakota Leather,
PREMIUM PKG
PREMIUM PKG 2
ACTIVE VENTILATED SEAT PKG
M SPORT PKG
SPLIT FOLD-DOWN REAR SEAT

Classifieds link

Last edited by emiliouf; 03-05-2012 at 10:34 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-06-2012, 12:02 AM
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Tough to get them to part with this one. It's fully loaded and highly desirable version. Find out exactly what the sticker is and then cross reference on true car or similar. TO see what it would have gone for new. Then deduct approx 10% and you are about ballpark.
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  #3  
Old 03-06-2012, 06:08 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Another "fully equipped" car.

That car probably has an MSRP of just under $70k. It does not have:

Nappa
HUD
Driver Assistance
Night Vision
Active Cruise
Etc.

Any idea on the build date?

Recent Manheim Auction Prices:

02/15/12 NJ Factory $50,000 4,853 Above TITANIUM 6GT A Yes
02/21/12 ORLANDO Lease $50,200 6,343 Above ALPINE W 6GT A Yes
02/21/12 ORLANDO Lease $44,200 6,432 Avg BLACK SA 6GT A Yes
02/28/12 ATLANTA Factory $44,800 7,652 Avg BLACK SA 6GT A Yes
02/15/12 NJ Factory $47,500 8,141 Above SPACE GR 6GT A Yes
02/15/12 NJ Factory $48,000 8,590 Above SPACE GR 6GT A Yes
02/15/12 NJ Factory $48,500 8,675 Above IMPERIAL 6GT A Yes
02/15/12 NJ Factory $44,000 9,051 Avg SPACE GR 6GT 6 Yes
02/22/12 RIVRSIDE Factory $47,500 9,414 Above JET BLAC 6GT A Yes
02/29/12 SF BAY Factory $48,000 9,610 Above ALPNEWHT 6GT A Yes
02/22/12 RIVRSIDE Factory $45,000 9,996 Avg DARK GRA 6GT A Yes
02/15/12 NJ Factory $43,000 10,180 Avg IMPERIAL 6GT A Yes

$60k for that car is too much. Way too much.

My car had a similar MSRP ($69,500 or thereabouts). Over a year ago, before the 2012's were out, I paid substantially less than that WITH a CPO warranty. My car does not have MSport but it does have DHP, plus is has Driver Assistance and Nappa so pricing should be the same.

Give them the auction prices and ask them how they justify that cost. Keep in mind, the auction price is not the final cost to the dealer as that is the hammer price and does not include buyer's fees, document fees, cost to transport home or cost to recondition. But if you add, say, $1,000 to $1,500 to the car, you should be relatively close.
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  #4  
Old 03-06-2012, 07:03 AM
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:42 AM
emiliouf emiliouf is offline
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Thanks, I was thinking $52,000 at most before taxes and everything else. Maybe I will just say that I am willing to offer $51,000 and see how it goes. I don't need the car yet and am willing to wait a month or two, but I do like this one, which is the best one I've seen mileage and package wise within 100 miles of my location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Another "fully equipped" car.

That car probably has an MSRP of just under $70k. It does not have:

Nappa
HUD
Driver Assistance
Night Vision
Active Cruise
Etc.

Any idea on the build date?

Recent Manheim Auction Prices:

02/15/12 NJ Factory $50,000 4,853 Above TITANIUM 6GT A Yes
02/21/12 ORLANDO Lease $50,200 6,343 Above ALPINE W 6GT A Yes
02/21/12 ORLANDO Lease $44,200 6,432 Avg BLACK SA 6GT A Yes
02/28/12 ATLANTA Factory $44,800 7,652 Avg BLACK SA 6GT A Yes
02/15/12 NJ Factory $47,500 8,141 Above SPACE GR 6GT A Yes
02/15/12 NJ Factory $48,000 8,590 Above SPACE GR 6GT A Yes
02/15/12 NJ Factory $48,500 8,675 Above IMPERIAL 6GT A Yes
02/15/12 NJ Factory $44,000 9,051 Avg SPACE GR 6GT 6 Yes
02/22/12 RIVRSIDE Factory $47,500 9,414 Above JET BLAC 6GT A Yes
02/29/12 SF BAY Factory $48,000 9,610 Above ALPNEWHT 6GT A Yes
02/22/12 RIVRSIDE Factory $45,000 9,996 Avg DARK GRA 6GT A Yes
02/15/12 NJ Factory $43,000 10,180 Avg IMPERIAL 6GT A Yes

$60k for that car is too much. Way too much.

My car had a similar MSRP ($69,500 or thereabouts). Over a year ago, before the 2012's were out, I paid substantially less than that WITH a CPO warranty. My car does not have MSport but it does have DHP, plus is has Driver Assistance and Nappa so pricing should be the same.

Give them the auction prices and ask them how they justify that cost. Keep in mind, the auction price is not the final cost to the dealer as that is the hammer price and does not include buyer's fees, document fees, cost to transport home or cost to recondition. But if you add, say, $1,000 to $1,500 to the car, you should be relatively close.
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  #6  
Old 03-06-2012, 07:58 AM
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personally I don't think 52k gets you this car. Financing for new 5's are 2.9, the used market is about 3.5% so there's not enough difference in the financing spread to get people to buy new. Which means lightly used versions are going to be sought after and this one with the desirable M Package and ventilated seats in Florida will be at the top of people's wish list. Dealer knows this and is not going to take a push on a used car like they would on a new version.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:26 AM
emiliouf emiliouf is offline
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What do you think a fair price is? A couple of weeks back they wouldn't even budge on the 59,995 price, and now they come back to me with "what price are you thinking?" I don't want to go too low that they just dismiss me, but then again, I don't "need" to take it at their price. It is the best one I've seen with used 2011 in terms of packages and miles and in excellent condition.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:38 AM
tjangi tjangi is offline
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I think BMW Morristown had the car you desrcibed back in November 2011;not sure if it is sold by now. They were willing to sell it for USD 54 k. Worth a try
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  #9  
Old 03-06-2012, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emiliouf View Post
What do you think a fair price is? A couple of weeks back they wouldn't even budge on the 59,995 price, and now they come back to me with "what price are you thinking?" I don't want to go too low that they just dismiss me, but then again, I don't "need" to take it at their price. It is the best one I've seen with used 2011 in terms of packages and miles and in excellent condition.
The secondary market is full of variables and gray areas. The new car market is mostly transparent and everyone has the same info. Off the top of my head, 54-55k sounds about right. The dealer makes a profit,you save about 10k versus a new one and everyone is happy. The longer you wait the more supply and cheaper the 5 are going to get. However, you can wait till eternity and end up driving a 17 year old car with 140k miles on it. Trust me I'm in the same boat right now. I have a Lexus that wont die, but at some point you just gotta suck it up and buy a new car.
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2012, 08:56 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
The secondary market is full of variables and gray areas. The new car market is mostly transparent and everyone has the same info. Off the top of my head, 54-55k sounds about right. The dealer makes a profit,you save about 10k versus a new one and everyone is happy. The longer you wait the more supply and cheaper the 5 are going to get. However, you can wait till eternity and end up driving a 17 year old car with 140k miles on it. Trust me I'm in the same boat right now. I have a Lexus that wont die, but at some point you just gotta suck it up and buy a new car.
Hmm...I think you are little high. I would say OP is on the money at 52k. OP keep in mind this...for 2012 the preimum package is effectively standard and the 2012 premium package has alot of what was in the 2011 premium 2 package. My point is this....would you order the car with all of these options? If not then build a 2012 with just what you want and see how much it is. It may be pretty close to the 59k asking price on this car....if it is just order a new one. Unless this car is certified, which we know it is not, I do not think it is worth a dime over 52-53k. Also, Ft. Lauderdale BMW does not have the greatest reputation lately. If you want this car tread carefully....I know another fester who tried to buy from this dealer and did not have a good experience. He ended up buying from my contact at Braman West Palm.....
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:11 AM
emiliouf emiliouf is offline
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going to do 52K and if not what about Braman?

Yes, I agree that they are not what they used to be at Lauderdale BMW. I haven't been to Braman West Palm, but they seem pretty good when I talk to them. I will offer 52K and if they do not take it, I wouldn't mind using your contact and getting a new 535 with similar specs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
Hmm...I think you are little high. I would say OP is on the money at 52k. OP keep in mind this...for 2012 the preimum package is effectively standard and the 2012 premium package has alot of what was in the 2011 premium 2 package. My point is this....would you order the car with all of these options? If not then build a 2012 with just what you want and see how much it is. It may be pretty close to the 59k asking price on this car....if it is just order a new one. Unless this car is certified, which we know it is not, I do not think it is worth a dime over 52-53k. Also, Ft. Lauderdale BMW does not have the greatest reputation lately. If you want this car tread carefully....I know another fester who tried to buy from this dealer and did not have a good experience. He ended up buying from my contact at Braman West Palm.....
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  #12  
Old 03-06-2012, 09:16 AM
Alecop Alecop is offline
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Knock 10% off. My previous car was a 2006 X5. It had 800 miles on it as a demo car. I got just over 4K off the asking...which equals about 10%.

(I should note the body style was changing over in 2007, so they were motivated to move that car)

I think 54K get you the car...maybe start at 52K work your way along?
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Last edited by Alecop; 03-06-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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  #13  
Old 03-06-2012, 11:14 AM
emiliouf emiliouf is offline
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price

We'll see what happens and I will talk to some dealers on the new version with the same specs and see what happens. I have a month or 2 to wait.
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  #14  
Old 03-06-2012, 12:05 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
The secondary market is full of variables and gray areas. The new car market is mostly transparent and everyone has the same info. Off the top of my head, 54-55k sounds about right.
Agree, and if they know they can sit on it for another 2 months and get 59 they will. This is the problem I've run into even as a cash buyer. There just aren't enough places with enough of the same models to really know what exactly each car is worth.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:31 PM
emiliouf emiliouf is offline
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got the reply below:

"We appreciate the offer, and if this was a true used car your pricing would be correct.
However, this car is a demo car. BMW still considers it a new car which is why it is eligible for new car rates.
With all possible discounts I can sell the car for $57,995 plus tax, plates and dealer fee.
Regards,
Max"

I wouldn't mind paying 54-55K, but he wouldn't budge at 59,995 1.5 weeks ago, as the end of the month comes, I would imagine it might get lower if it's available.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:32 PM
emiliouf emiliouf is offline
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outside town

guess I can try other connections and get them to transfer it down to me if the price is right.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tjangi View Post
I think BMW Morristown had the car you desrcibed back in
November 2011;not sure if it is sold by now. They were willing to sell it for USD 54 k. Worth a try
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  #17  
Old 03-06-2012, 12:40 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emiliouf View Post
got the reply below:

"We appreciate the offer, and if this was a true used car your pricing would be correct.
However, this car is a demo car. BMW still considers it a new car which is why it is eligible for new car rates.
With all possible discounts I can sell the car for $57,995 plus tax, plates and dealer fee.
Regards,
Max"

I wouldn't mind paying 54-55K, but he wouldn't budge at 59,995 1.5 weeks ago, as the end of the month comes, I would imagine it might get lower if it's available.
lol that first part is a nice way of trying to say its better than a used car I'd respond will since this is such an exceptional demo car would BMW be willing to CPO it for that price of 57,995, If it was titled its a used car, if it was never titled (I don't think they can cpo it), they have a minor case . I'd also respond by saying I've seen and heard what test drivers do with those cars (push them on brand new engines).

Last edited by SuperTerp; 03-06-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:55 PM
emiliouf emiliouf is offline
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Cpo

What would be the reason to get them to CPO it at that price?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
lol that first part is a nice way of trying to say its better than a used car I'd respond will since this is such an exceptional demo car would BMW be willing to CPO it for that price of 57,995, If it was titled its a used car, if it was never titled (I don't think they can cpo it), they have a minor case . I'd also respond by saying I've seen and heard what test drivers do with those cars (push them on brand new engines).
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:00 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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What would be the reason to get them to CPO it at that price?
Additional years of coverage once the 4 year program runs out, and while its not as good as the 4 year, still worth having if your keeping it that long.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:07 PM
emiliouf emiliouf is offline
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CPO and warranty

I will keep that in mind, and/or getting extended warranty at cost maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
Additional years of coverage once the 4 year program runs out, and while its not as good as the 4 year, still worth having if your keeping it that long.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:28 PM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emiliouf View Post
I will keep that in mind, and/or getting extended warranty at cost maybe.
Even at 58k with or without CPO it is still too high. An equivalent new one, exact same options, is $66,920 and it is new with a full warranty. It is quite possible that this "demo" car has burned through a year worth of warranty already because it could have been put into service a year ago (based on the 02/11 build date). Also, do not forget that you cannot get 2.9-3.9 interest rates on this car because BMWNA is no longer supporting 2011 models (those are the promotional rates for 2012). You also must remember that you are taking a car with 1/3 to 1/2 of the rear tread already worn off. With a set of rears costing $1100 installed you might as well add a minimum of $550 bucks on top of their offer since tires will come sooner than if it were new. With a good discount you can buy a new one (with the same equipment) for about 63k compared to the real world price of 59.5k for the used one. Why on earth would you take a year old car to save, at most, 4.5-5k? Depending on the interest rate penalty for a 2011 you might even have a smaller gap than that. Go see one of the people I mentioned and offer them 63k for a 2012 with this equipment and I am sure you will get an acceptance. EDIT - looked at the carfax. It was put into service in March 2011 so I am right that it has lost a year of warranty already.
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Last edited by Alpine300ZHP; 03-06-2012 at 01:50 PM. Reason: Thought of some other important stuff
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  #22  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:36 PM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emiliouf View Post
got the reply below:

"We appreciate the offer, and if this was a true used car your pricing would be correct.
However, this car is a demo car. BMW still considers it a new car which is why it is eligible for new car rates.
With all possible discounts I can sell the car for $57,995 plus tax, plates and dealer fee.
Regards,
Max"

I wouldn't mind paying 54-55K, but he wouldn't budge at 59,995 1.5 weeks ago, as the end of the month comes, I would imagine it might get lower if it's available.
Based on the experience that fest member xjsChris had with Lauderdale I am not surprised. You can do a search if you want the gritty details on how they treated him. Needless to say he purchased from my guy at Braman and is quite happy.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:38 PM
emiliouf emiliouf is offline
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experience at Braman

A couple of weeks ago, I dealt with someone at Braman named Esme. She seemed nice and responsive, but didn't call me back when I called and I had to find out for myself online that the car was taken off the inventory. Other than that they have been good and responsive.
Hope Braman can get me in my wheels soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
Based on the experience that fest member xjsChris had with Lauderdale I am not surprised. You can do a search if you want the gritty details on how they treated him. Needless to say he purchased from my guy at Braman and is quite happy.
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  #24  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:40 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
Even at 58k with or without CPO it is still too high. An equivalent new one, exact same options, is $66,920 and it is new with a full warranty. It is quite possible that this "demo" car has burned through a year worth of warranty already because it could have been put into service a year ago (based on the 02/11 build date). Also, do not forget that you are also taking a car with 1/3 to 1/2 of the rear tread already worn off. With a set of rears costing $1100 installed you might as well add a minimum of $550 bucks on top of their offer since tires will come sooner than if it were new. With a good discount you can buy a new one (with the same equipment) for about 63k. Why on earth would you take a year old car to save, at most, 5k? Go see one of the people I mentioned and offer them 63k for a 2012 with this equipment and I am sure you will get an acceptance.
Thats the kind of thinking I try to apply when considering if a used car is worth it.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:55 PM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emiliouf View Post
A couple of weeks ago, I dealt with someone at Braman named Esme. She seemed nice and responsive, but didn't call me back when I called and I had to find out for myself online that the car was taken off the inventory. Other than that they have been good and responsive.
Hope Braman can get me in my wheels soon.
Esme is not John. John has been with Braman for 15 plus years (I have been a customer for 11 or so of those years). His level of customer service is much, much higher than the average Braman C.A. Also, his ability to get management to give you a good deal is also much better than many of the other C.A.'s there because he carries a pretty big book of clients and he can make management do things the newer C.A.'s cannot. At Braman BMW it is all about who you know and your results vary widely depending on who you know. The GSM of Braman knows me on a first name basis..this helps you. On a side note, it is the big book of clients and length of service as a C.A. that makes the fest sponsors like Adrian Avila able to give fest clients great deals. After owning a fleet of BMW's over the years I have learned that being a C.A. is like having your own brokerage business. No matter where you work, the loyal BMW customer will follow you and that gives the high volume guys the power to get management (most if not all fest sponsors qualify as high volume) to agree to the best deals because management knows that these high volume guys bring in the best BMW buyers (credit qualified repeat buyers).
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Last edited by Alpine300ZHP; 03-06-2012 at 02:07 PM.
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