This really sucks......for now.

Copied from a popular BMW website.......from 2012 Geneva show...

Neither the M550d sedan nor touring will be available in North America, but look for future gasoline M Performance models to make it to North America.

Damit!!!

Originally Posted by julesandtrish

Copied from a popular BMW website.......from 2012 Geneva show...

Neither the M550d sedan nor touring will be available in North America, but look for future gasoline M Performance models to make it to North America.

Damit!!!

I agree. MB E350 BlueTech Sport might be a good alternative if BMW doesn't offer a 535d in the U.S!

rmorin49,

Please provide feedback after you have test drove E350 BlueTEC.

I can provide the feedback for you since I drove one and considered it before I picked up my 2011 535i. The fact that I love diesels and am driving a new 535i will probably tell you all that you need to know. Some key points: First, it is much slower than the 335d and I suspect that it is related to the single turbo vs twin turbo in the 335d. It is comfortable and handles well for a MB. I really could not fault it much except I hated that you cannot get AMG sport package on it. I was originally told I could not get sport and later Snipe told me that was not true...sport is available, but not AMG sport (and it comes with 17 inch wheels instead of 18's...that car is too big for 17's). In my opinion an MB does not look good unless it has AMG sport package on it. The consensus....the E350BT is a good car and a worthy competitor to the 5 series. I however will drive my 535i until the 535d comes over and then get that. I guess no matter how hard I try to buy something else I am never happy if it is not a BMW (I have owned MB's in the past and I did not love them).

Since AMG is now owned by Mercedes you only get AMG stuff on AMG specific cars such as the E63. You could special order the wheels of course but it is a purchase outside the car when you get down to it. Back when AMG was a separate company you could more easily buy any new Mercedes and get select AMG upgrades done to it as all part of the ordering process. Now of course if you did an ED on one you could drive over to AMG and get wheels/suspension and maybe a few other things but no engine/hp enhancements since it is being shipped out.

The E350 Sport is not much of a leap over the regular E350. You get a different front bumper cover(although not sure if that is even true in the latest year, I actually prefer the round foglights on the non sport over the LED bars) and tighter springs, not sure if anything else. I have driven both the E350 Sport and non-sport and all were Blutecs. Those cars are nothing at all like a 335d, acceleration is good enough for the MBZ but light years behind the 335d and I do not mean just WOT blasts but normal driving such as in the city, on the freeway, pulling onto the freeway and speeding up to pass cars on the freeway. Now of course the E350 makes a fair amount less power too and I'd imagine weighs a fair amount more. Plus the E350 uses a single turbo instead of the two turbo setup the BMW has. So the lower power and different approach to make that power ends up drastically changing the driving "dynamics" of the car. Then factor in a Mercedes is typically a less "aggressive" car than BMW, softer shifting transmissions being a big part of that but also a smoother ride quality. Wheel selection does not bother me a whole lot but I will agree that an E series really needs at least an 18" wheel to look right, AMG E63s actually as of 2012 MY come with 19" wheels by default unless you get the special option for 18" wheels. It would appear the E350 actually nets better mpg and I am betting it is because you are not in boost as quickly for city and traffic driving plus the MBZ has something like a 21 gallon fuel tank, you could see some very long ranges per tank.

One thing that annoys me with MBZ is how they do the options on the E350. For example out cars come by default with some headlights that I absolutely love. When I was shopping the MBZ though to get those same sort of headlights I had to get the P2 option which means I end up getting a ton of options at a hefty price tag that I actually rather not pay money for. This is a little strange because when I was shopping the C63 they had a specific "Lighting Package" that got me exactly what I wanted at a more reasonable price tag.

Now in the new ML and S classes they are coating the Blutec engine blocks with a coating that used to be used just on AMG engines. This is increasing the power output and fuel economy of the motors. It does not get them to the levels of the 335d but any little bit helps. I'd personally have a very hard time buying an E350 that makes less power knowing those other two get the better engine. I am guessing in MY 2013 that perhaps the E350 will get that engine update as well.

Going from BMW to MBZ to me is a very big change, after all it was a big adjustment for me to go from MBZ to BMW. The cars appeal to completely different types of drivers or at least in my opinion they do. I'd think going from a 335d to a E350 Blutec simply because no 5 series diesel is offered will result in a disappointing purchase for a lot of people. Heck why not just go to a Passat TDI which is going to be near half the cost of the MBZ but is it really half the car?

Here is an interesting note though towards MBZ cars, the latest M Blutec does not use run flats any more. They now have spare tires and their DEF fillup is by the diesel fillup instead of spare tire well. I wonder if they can or will do this with the E.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

Since AMG is now owned by Mercedes you only get AMG stuff on AMG specific cars such as the E63. You could special order the wheels of course but it is a purchase outside the car when you get down to it. Back when AMG was a separate company you could more easily buy any new Mercedes and get select AMG upgrades done to it as all part of the ordering process. Now of course if you did an ED on one you could drive over to AMG and get wheels/suspension and maybe a few other things but no engine/hp enhancements since it is being shipped out.

The E350 Sport is not much of a leap over the regular E350. You get a different front bumper cover(although not sure if that is even true in the latest year, I actually prefer the round foglights on the non sport over the LED bars) and tighter springs, not sure if anything else. I have driven both the E350 Sport and non-sport and all were Blutecs. Those cars are nothing at all like a 335d, acceleration is good enough for the MBZ but light years behind the 335d and I do not mean just WOT blasts but normal driving such as in the city, on the freeway, pulling onto the freeway and speeding up to pass cars on the freeway. Now of course the E350 makes a fair amount less power too and I'd imagine weighs a fair amount more. Plus the E350 uses a single turbo instead of the two turbo setup the BMW has. So the lower power and different approach to make that power ends up drastically changing the driving "dynamics" of the car. Then factor in a Mercedes is typically a less "aggressive" car than BMW, softer shifting transmissions being a big part of that but also a smoother ride quality. Wheel selection does not bother me a whole lot but I will agree that an E series really needs at least an 18" wheel to look right, AMG E63s actually as of 2012 MY come with 19" wheels by default unless you get the special option for 18" wheels. It would appear the E350 actually nets better mpg and I am betting it is because you are not in boost as quickly for city and traffic driving plus the MBZ has something like a 21 gallon fuel tank, you could see some very long ranges per tank.

One thing that annoys me with MBZ is how they do the options on the E350. For example out cars come by default with some headlights that I absolutely love. When I was shopping the MBZ though to get those same sort of headlights I had to get the P2 option which means I end up getting a ton of options at a hefty price tag that I actually rather not pay money for. This is a little strange because when I was shopping the C63 they had a specific "Lighting Package" that got me exactly what I wanted at a more reasonable price tag.

Now in the new ML and S classes they are coating the Blutec engine blocks with a coating that used to be used just on AMG engines. This is increasing the power output and fuel economy of the motors. It does not get them to the levels of the 335d but any little bit helps. I'd personally have a very hard time buying an E350 that makes less power knowing those other two get the better engine. I am guessing in MY 2013 that perhaps the E350 will get that engine update as well.

Going from BMW to MBZ to me is a very big change, after all it was a big adjustment for me to go from MBZ to BMW. The cars appeal to completely different types of drivers or at least in my opinion they do. I'd think going from a 335d to a E350 Blutec simply because no 5 series diesel is offered will result in a disappointing purchase for a lot of people. Heck why not just go to a Passat TDI which is going to be near half the cost of the MBZ but is it really half the car?
Here is an interesting note though towards MBZ cars, the latest M Blutec does not use run flats any more. They now have spare tires and their DEF fillup is by the diesel fillup instead of spare tire well. I wonder if they can or will do this with the E.

This statement (in bold) is very true and excactly why I opted for the 535i over the E350BT. Even if the 18 inch AMG wheels were available on the BT I would still have picked the 535i. I think the reality is that I am not the person MB marketing is targeting.

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

This statement (in bold) is very true and excactly why I opted for the 535i over the E350BT. Even if the 18 inch AMG wheels were available on the BT I would still have picked the 535i. I think the reality is that I am not the person MB marketing is targeting.

More than just marketing, it is the very design of things. Don't get me wrong though, the MBZ I think is a great car. The MBZ just lacks the power and power band that I know I prefer in a car. This is all coming from a person who was set on getting a E350 Blutec then when I went and drove more of them I just was hugely disappointed in them. I am much more a MBZ buyer than I ever will be a BMW buyer. The 335d has spoiled me and changed my expectations for a diesel sedan.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

More than just marketing, it is the very design of things. Don't get me wrong though, the MBZ I think is a great car. The MBZ just lacks the power and power band that I know I prefer in a car. This is all coming from a person who was set on getting a E350 Blutec then when I went and drove more of them I just was hugely disappointed in them. I am much more a MBZ buyer than I ever will be a BMW buyer. The 335d has spoiled me and changed my expectations for a diesel sedan.

some very good points Snipe
I dont need bigger car than 3 for another decade. And driving d for nearly 2 yrs has changed my tastes a lot. As of now I dont see any vehicle which could replace d (in same or lower price range). Cars I have looked at: Passat TDI, GolfTDI, F30 328, Audi A3TDI, WRX, Accord Coupe V6. 3-4yrs something comes up

After having test driven a new MB E-class recently, I think I'd rather buy a Chevy Cruze diesel then an E-Class. I found the MB neither luxurious nor sporting, and overall just plain boring.

-Graham

Chevy sells a diesel Cruze in the states?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...ighlight=cruze

First post in that says "to sell" so I ask again do they sell a diesel Cruze in the states?

Originally Posted by Snipe656

First post in that says "to sell" so I ask again do they sell a diesel Cruze in the states?

Confirmed for MY2013 but on sale date not know yet AFAIK.

I remember Honda saying when the diesel Accrod would get here. After that, I believe it when they are being sold.

So the Cruze is the same size car as a 5 series, E class and Passat? They sure look much smaller driving down the road.

@Alpine300ZHP & Aaron,

The reason I'm asking rmorin49 to provide feedback because I have similar test driving experience compare to you both. E350 BlueTEC feels slower and less torque. Also, it doesn't do proper downshifting when pressing the gas pedal during an overtaking maneuver .

Originally Posted by rmorin49

I agree. MB E350 BlueTech Sport here I come!

I need to clarify my previous post:

1. The E350BT will be my wife's car, not mine.
2. Yes, it is bigger, slower and heavier than the 335d but what is the option if you want a bigger diesel car than a Passat? (I would consider a Passat CC diesel but don't like the styling of the new Passat sedan)
3. Longevity of MB diesels is well proven and personally I think it is a very nice looking car, albeit a bit boring compared to a BMW.

I will not be in the market for at least a year so perhaps BMW will come through with a 5 series diesel or perhaps Audi will offer a diesel in the A6.

Time will tell.

Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel

some very good points Snipe
I dont need bigger car than 3 for another decade. And driving d for nearly 2 yrs has changed my tastes a lot. As of now I dont see any vehicle which could replace d (in same or lower price range). Cars I have looked at: Passat TDI, GolfTDI, F30 328, Audi A3TDI, WRX, Accord Coupe V6. 3-4yrs something comes up

Whats the A3 TDI like? I always thought a TT AWD TDI would rock, but wont happen.

Originally Posted by bayoucity

@Alpine300ZHP & Aaron,

The reason I'm asking rmorin49 to provide feedback because I have similar test driving experience compare to you both. E350 BlueTEC feels slower and less torque. Also, it doesn't do proper downshifting when pressing the gas pedal during an overtaking maneuver .

I noticed this too and actually was the biggest let down about the car when I drove the last one. But in hindsight their transmissions are adaptive and perhaps that behavior would not be near as bad as it learned me. But then it still comes down to is it really twice the car as the Passat since it is roughly twice the money.

Originally Posted by rmorin49

I need to clarify my previous post:

1. The E350BT will be my wife's car, not mine.
2. Yes, it is bigger, slower and heavier than the 335d but what is the option if you want a bigger diesel car than a Passat? (I would consider a Passat CC diesel but don't like the styling of the new Passat sedan)
3. Longevity of MB diesels is well proven and personally I think it is a very nice looking car, albeit a bit boring compared to a BMW.

I will not be in the market for at least a year so perhaps BMW will come through with a 5 series diesel or perhaps Audi will offer a diesel in the A6.

Time will tell.

On the MBZ forum I get on I have seen people say that the newer V6 diesel motors are not near as long lasting as the previous engines. It supposedly is one of the reasons why people for awhile now try to find really nice conditioned CDI models over Blutecs. I have no clue how much truth there is behind their comments though.

I like the looks of the E series and do not think the interior is crummy by any means. To me it is a mid class luxury car and that is what it seems to be marketed as. I do not think they do an E350 Blutec wagon stateside but if they did then I'd still consider one even after all the drawbacks I have listed. Supposedly they have some very good reliability ratings for the latest body style being made since 2010. Although I think the next driver I get, if I am still commuting so much at that point in time, is going to be something around $30k or even less, so MBZ will not even be a consideration.

Originally Posted by wanderlust

Whats the A3 TDI like? I always thought a TT AWD TDI would rock, but wont happen.

It's like a really nice Jetta Sportwagon with just a little less interior room. I looked at them a couple times, but knowing it basically is a Sportswagon at a very large premium is a thought I can't get out of my head.

I was being somewhat facetious with the comparison to considering a Cruze over the E350, and suppose I should have added when the diesel Cruze is available to my statement. But I did have a [turbo gas] Cruze as a rental car recently (livin' large, I know ) and I was really surprised how fun and engaging it was to drive, not unlike the 3-Series experience. The turbo diesel should have about double the torque compared to the gas options...which sounds like a reasonably fun time to me for around $20k.

-Graham

I was supposed to have a Cruze for a rental during my last trip. At the very last minute they changed it to I think it was a Malibu(not fun car BTW). I have yet to get inside a Cruze. I have heard people talk of have Cruze Ecos(?) and thought maybe those are diesels. The only announced GM diesel I have tried to look into was the ATS and I could find nothing but speculation on the diesel even though tons of information on the gas ones.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

More than just marketing, it is the very design of things. Don't get me wrong though, the MBZ I think is a great car. The MBZ just lacks the power and power band that I know I prefer in a car. This is all coming from a person who was set on getting a E350 Blutec then when I went and drove more of them I just was hugely disappointed in them. I am much more a MBZ buyer than I ever will be a BMW buyer. The 335d has spoiled me and changed my expectations for a diesel sedan.

You are right on the design comment. I too have been spoiled by the 335d and since that was my first experience with diesel the bar is set pretty high. You certainly have changed your position because a year ago you were all but set to get the E350BT.

Originally Posted by bayoucity

@Alpine300ZHP & Aaron,

The reason I'm asking rmorin49 to provide feedback because I have similar test driving experience compare to you both. E350 BlueTEC feels slower and less torque. Also, it doesn't do proper downshifting when pressing the gas pedal during an overtaking maneuver .

Yes I noticed this too, but I attributed it to MB transmission programming and thought it might be that way intentionally to maximize fuel economy. I also think the BT gets stuck with 17 inch wheels also to maximize fuel economy. It is no secret that non sport 335d's with 17's get better fuel economy than sport package 335d's with the 18's. BMW is BMW and they built the 335d to be the performance diesel and it shows.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

I noticed this too and actually was the biggest let down about the car when I drove the last one. But in hindsight their transmissions are adaptive and perhaps that behavior would not be near as bad as it learned me. But then it still comes down to is it really twice the car as the Passat since it is roughly twice the money.



On the MBZ forum I get on I have seen people say that the newer V6 diesel motors are not near as long lasting as the previous engines. It supposedly is one of the reasons why people for awhile now try to find really nice conditioned CDI models over Blutecs. I have no clue how much truth there is behind their comments though.

I like the looks of the E series and do not think the interior is crummy by any means. To me it is a mid class luxury car and that is what it seems to be marketed as. I do not think they do an E350 Blutec wagon stateside but if they did then I'd still consider one even after all the drawbacks I have listed. Supposedly they have some very good reliability ratings for the latest body style being made since 2010. Although I think the next driver I get, if I am still commuting so much at that point in time, is going to be something around $30k or even less, so MBZ will not even be a consideration.

Yeah...what evidence do those people have to support their comments? The new diesel engines are too new for anyone to know how reliable they are. We will not know that until a few of us run these cars well past 100k and see how they hold up. I understand your comment regarding a 30k commuter car and if that was my target it would be, without a doubt, a Jetta TDI. For less than 30k the TDI is the safest and most fuel efficient car sold in America. I considered the TDI on two occasions and almost got one. I was fortunate to be able to afford a nicer car so I got the BMW, but I still think that the TDI is the best sub 30k car there is in America.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

It's like a really nice Jetta Sportwagon with just a little less interior room. I looked at them a couple times, but knowing it basically is a Sportswagon at a very large premium is a thought I can't get out of my head.

I didnt know that, it would bother me as well.

powered by lemings

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

You are right on the design comment. I too have been spoiled by the 335d and since that was my first experience with diesel the bar is set pretty high. You certainly have changed your position because a year ago you were all but set to get the E350BT.

It is because I did not really test them on the freeway until I was prepared to buy one. Prior to that it was all city tests. I had not been driving my 335d much at all for the year prior to that so not even sure it was the BMW that spoiled me.

Yes I noticed this too, but I attributed it to MB transmission programming and thought it might be that way intentionally to maximize fuel economy. I also think the BT gets stuck with 17 inch wheels also to maximize fuel economy. It is no secret that non sport 335d's with 17's get better fuel economy than sport package 335d's with the 18's. BMW is BMW and they built the 335d to be the performance diesel and it shows.

I really lack understanding about such a concern with wheels. I'd just swap them out if I did not like them.

Yeah...what evidence do those people have to support their comments? The new diesel engines are too new for anyone to know how reliable they are. We will not know that until a few of us run these cars well past 100k and see how they hold up. I understand your comment regarding a 30k commuter car and if that was my target it would be, without a doubt, a Jetta TDI. For less than 30k the TDI is the safest and most fuel efficient car sold in America. I considered the TDI on two occasions and almost got one. I was fortunate to be able to afford a nicer car so I got the BMW, but I still think that the TDI is the best sub 30k car there is in America.

I do not think the basic engine is actually all that young. They do state some numbers and give reasons but it just is not something I have been overly concerned with to commit to memory. I read those forums more for my old diesel and interest in the AMG models so can't say I have invested much interest in the newer diesels. I do know the comments are out there and if I were buying a new MBZ diesel with thoughts I was getting a long lasting engine then I'd go and research their comments. I think though the rest of the car would force me to sell long before the engine ever had issues. These cars are just way too complex with very expensive items to break and have to fix.

Amigos before I bought my 35d I had test driven the Jetta SW DIESEL and the Jetta sedan DIESEL and was i trhilled with them, but the STEALERSHIP wanted to screw me with TAXES!! I decided to test drive a 35d and man did I want one but since I was on a weekend excursion I could not do it, so I decided later on my next trip to rent a MBZ 300(for 5 days), and man the car is BEAUTIFUl, but lacks the HUMF of the 35d. My girlfriend and I were disappointed with the car overall and we both looked at each other and we both said at the same time BMW!!! But i did not stop there I had my son test drive the 300 although he had test driven the 35d before, he drove the car for approx. 20 minutes, he said Dad the car is lovely but damn, the BMW is the one!!! Needless to say DIESELS have changed my thinking towards gassers