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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
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  #1  
Old 11-17-2014, 10:06 AM
Jat007 Jat007 is offline
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P0171 & p0174 cel

Hello guys!

For the life of me, I cannot find any info on the P0171 & P0174 CEL code appear only when the weather is cold and if I don't let it warm up for 3-4 mins during start-up in my 2004 X3 w/2.5L motor. I can find these codes (P0171 & P0174), but they're not in the same symptom as mine. I can go days without this code reappearing, but as soon as my daughter gets inside of this car, she would trigger this code all over again until I reset it. I told her to let the car warm up before drive off and she said, she did. However, my son and I never ever triggered this code when we use the car. My son and I are very discipline about letting the engine warm up before driving off... My the life of me, I can't seem to get that through my daughter thick skull...

Is this means my air pump is getting weak or on its way out? The X3 only has 84K miles on it and it does runs very well and I do regular maintenance as the manual described.

Any thoughts on this guys??

Thanks,

Jay
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2014, 11:29 AM
Supercourse Supercourse is online now
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Doesn't the Owner's Manual recommend driving off after about 30 secs. rather than letting it idle for 3 or 4 minutes? I think your daughter is doing it right.

As long as you are easy on the gas pedal, driving it to get the engine up to full operating temperature is better for the engine.

Idling on the driveway you are accumulating more byproducts in the engine from incomplete combustion.

But I agree it is displaying an unusual symptom with those codes.

Could be there is a hairline split in the intake boot that opens up a bit if the car is driven from cold, but not when idled on the driveway.

Or something happening with internal corrosion in the secondary air pump as you surmise.

Or just the very beginnings of a clogged crankcase vent valve system that fails the drive cycle diagnostics when the engine is driven from cold but not when partially warmed up.

I think we agree that 3 or 4 minutes of idling doesn't get the engine anywhere near full operating temperature - that takes at least 5 miles or about 15 minutes of driving.
And contrary to popular perception - it's not when the temp. gauge needle first gets to 12 o'clock but quite a few miles or minutes after that.

You could disconnect the CVV tube that connects to the valve cover and see if that has any yellow buildup in it.

Among many other possibilities, did it have the recall on the Bremi coils in its early days?
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  #3  
Old 11-17-2014, 03:52 PM
Jat007 Jat007 is offline
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I was not aware of any recalls for Bremi coils... If so, probably out of grace period by now. I am in the process of buying a new intake boot this coming week and going to replace that for now. While I'm there doing the intake boot, I will take a look at the CVV tube and see if I can see buildup.

Thanks,

Jay
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  #4  
Old 11-17-2014, 04:08 PM
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legalfee legalfee is offline
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I would suspect a torn intake boot. Also clean your MAF sensor.
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  #5  
Old 11-17-2014, 04:24 PM
joylove joylove is offline
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How 'cold' is cold? Like 40 below?
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  #6  
Old 11-17-2014, 05:04 PM
Supercourse Supercourse is online now
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Here's the Bremi voluntary recall notice, but you probably have Bosch coils or would have had a problem before now.

It affected 2004 and 2005 E83 models up to Dec. 2004 build date.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BREMI Ignition Coils Recall Letter.pdf (42.2 KB, 14 views)
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  #7  
Old 11-17-2014, 07:29 PM
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Ishniknork Ishniknork is offline
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P0171 and P0174 is a lean condition on banks 1 and 2 most likely caused by a tear in the pigtail of the air intake boot that leads to the Idle Air Control Valve.
Resetting the code will not keep it from reappearing. It will reappear after about 100 miles unless the problem causing the code is fixed.

You should also run through the FTP drive cycle before the code will clear. (see attached PDF, page 2)

BTW, I do not believe a bad CCV will trigger the CEL light. I recently replaced mine, it was definitely bad, and I did not get any light at all. SES or CEL.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BMW FTP72 Drive Cycle Procedure.pdf (212.5 KB, 29 views)
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Last edited by Ishniknork; 11-17-2014 at 08:30 PM.
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  #8  
Old 11-18-2014, 08:16 AM
Jat007 Jat007 is offline
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Minneapolis cold (0 degree). I cleaned the MAF sensor in the fall where the temperature dropped low 30's... I did not have any issues with these codes last year at this time. It all started in this fall when the temperature dipped.

You guys might be right, the intake boot might have a small crack and now gotten bigger since the last time I removed the MAF to clean it. I ordered a new intake boot last night, so I should see it early next week and do an R & R on teh intake boot and get back to you guys.

Thanks,

Jay
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  #9  
Old 11-18-2014, 08:29 AM
jdauria jdauria is offline
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When my E46 threw this code years ago it was cracked intake boot. You can feel around the back of it, mine had a huge hole in it.
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  #10  
Old 11-18-2014, 10:30 AM
Jat007 Jat007 is offline
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Yeah, I hope that just it... The intake boot probably been there since new. The harsh frigid winter here in Minnesota is too hard for cars even though this model is equipped with the winter package. I can't even drive my 328ic during the winter because it does not have the winter package or do I want to have any rust on it. Therefore, I either drive my X3 or my Saab 9-5. The wife got the Volvo XC90 with a V8 motor, which built like a tank, but I still prefer to the X3. I just recently bought 4 new snow tires for it, so it's all setup to conquer the weather here in Minnesota.

Thanks guys!!

Jay
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  #11  
Old 11-18-2014, 10:32 AM
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AzNMpower32 AzNMpower32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishniknork View Post
BTW, I do not believe a bad CCV will trigger the CEL light. I recently replaced mine, it was definitely bad, and I did not get any light at all. SES or CEL.
I disagree. My SES light illuminated when I had a bad CCV, and nothing else, go figure. I had a bad DISA and CCV over the lifetime of the car that triggered the SES codes but never an air intake boot.
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2014, 08:41 PM
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Ishniknork Ishniknork is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
I disagree. My SES light illuminated when I had a bad CCV, and nothing else, go figure. I had a bad DISA and CCV over the lifetime of the car that triggered the SES codes but never an air intake boot.
Maybe I have it backwards then. It has been a while but my CCV didn't throw the light, it was just busted and causing white smoke on startup.
Did you have a broken hose on the CCV, like the oil return hose? I had that hose break once and it DID throw the SES light but when I finally replaced the smoking CCV I didn't have SES or CEL on.
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Last edited by Ishniknork; 11-18-2014 at 08:47 PM.
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  #13  
Old 11-18-2014, 09:14 PM
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AzNMpower32 AzNMpower32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishniknork View Post
Maybe I have it backwards then. It has been a while but my CCV didn't throw the light, it was just busted and causing white smoke on startup.
Did you have a broken hose on the CCV, like the oil return hose? I had that hose break once and it DID throw the SES light but when I finally replaced the smoking CCV I didn't have SES or CEL on.
Yeah, I think it was badly rotted hose leading to the CCV, which itself had failed as well. It idled worse than usual once the SES light illuminated. My mechanic was surprised my original CCV lasted 260k km (160k mls)......"we usually see those go bad much earlier".

Wasn't a debilitating failure, no big deal but it was costly due to 4,5h of labour to get to it. Nonetheless, I miss quite a few aspects of my X3......
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2014, 11:13 PM
Jat007 Jat007 is offline
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Idle perfect and I get around 17 MPG in town. No white smoke or any smoke at all (knock on wood) at this time. I believe the intake hose is a culprit at this point as I recalled, my 323i e46 had the same codes and plus 5 more codes, a total of 8 different codes and I took care of them all 1 by 1 several years ago. There was 1 hose that was a bitch to do was the small hose that came off from the pod that connects to the air pump and went all the way around the engine by the firewall and connects to the intake manifold. It took me several days going back and forth until I go it. The reason it took so long I was too upset that I couldn't find the nipple under the intake manifold so I just left after 45 mins each time that I tried.

Either the air pump vacuum hose or the intake boot at this time.

Thanks,
Jay
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  #15  
Old 11-19-2014, 09:37 AM
Supercourse Supercourse is online now
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The air intake hose for the 2.5 engine is longer than the one on the 3.0. (And costs more!)

Don't know if this makes it more prone to crack from flexing over the years, nor whether it makes it even harder to install.

Most owners report that the clip for the small takeoff is positioned so that it is very difficult to get a small socket on it.

But at least one owner reported that it was positioned just right so you might get lucky.

Hope you have a well-heated garage to work in.
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  #16  
Old 11-19-2014, 12:15 PM
Jat007 Jat007 is offline
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Well heated garage? Not chance of that. However, my oldest live in a townhouse, which also has underground heated parking space - This is where I will be doing the R & R of the intake boot. The bad part is, no extra outlets for my work light and no additional tools nearby, so I would have to bring extra tools in case I'm in the jam or ??? But beats working outside at this time of the year.

Thanks,

Jay
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  #17  
Old 11-20-2014, 11:37 AM
SonicBoom SonicBoom is offline
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Jat007,

If you are a trustworthy guy, I have a garage in MPLS 'burbs you could possibly use.

I have a lot of tools and such, and can't just let anybody into my garage.

How did you get your codes pulled?
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  #18  
Old 11-21-2014, 09:10 AM
Jat007 Jat007 is offline
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Hi SonicBoom! Wow, you're generous person! I am ok using my son's underground garage for now. I pulled the code from a code reader that I bought couple of years back. Why do you ask?

Thanks,

Jay
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  #19  
Old 12-15-2014, 09:29 PM
softtop323 softtop323 is offline
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Hi guys My wifes 2006 x3 85000 miles got the p0171 and p0174 codes athe same time. I put a new boot on it and cleaned the MAF and installed a new air cleaner. I cleared the code and after about a hundred miles both codes were back. Iremoved the Disa valve while replacing the boot and it appeared ok. Car runs great idles great and doesnt have the white smoke or strong suction at the oil filler cap when removed while idling. I am at a loss as to what keeps triggering the lean codes. Also recently got the code for insufficient secondary air flow -so I put on a new check valve and that code has not come back. The secondary air pump seems to run fine in the mornings on cold start up. Any ideas would be helpful at this point. Thanks
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2014, 06:43 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is online now
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smoke test

cease and desist parts swapping ....yaggotta wanna and gotta smoke test it FIRST ....to eliminate lots of possibles .....make a tester or run it by the indy.....look up my posts and search the many youtubes for smoke testing

if you have the 54 engine there are dastardly vac hoses under rear of intake manifold .....also a bad actor vac hose just below them going to the rear / vac canister .....10 cents to change but hidden ....an easy diy though.....also the seal on the 54 and other disas can leak .....smoke will show it .....also valve cover/oil filler cap can leak

if you have the 52 engine there are two disas ....one on outside of intake and one tucked under manifold

ps ....was the boot cracked ?????

Last edited by swampX3; 12-16-2014 at 06:49 AM. Reason: add tips
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  #21  
Old 12-16-2014, 02:17 PM
swampX3 swampX3 is online now
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dastardly 54 engine hoses

look up part nos 15 and 17 .....rear under manifold drivers side

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...79&hg=11&fg=40
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  #22  
Old 12-16-2014, 02:36 PM
swampX3 swampX3 is online now
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vacuum canister images link

its often item 4 ....a small diameter vac hose that rots front and rear ....an easy diy....check under the vehicle when smoke testing

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...52&hg=18&fg=20


http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j...18852089600254

Last edited by swampX3; 12-16-2014 at 02:39 PM. Reason: add tips
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  #23  
Old 12-16-2014, 09:17 PM
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Ishniknork Ishniknork is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softtop323 View Post
Hi guys My wifes 2006 x3 85000 miles got the p0171 and p0174 codes athe same time. I put a new boot on it and cleaned the MAF and installed a new air cleaner. I cleared the code and after about a hundred miles both codes were back. Iremoved the Disa valve while replacing the boot and it appeared ok. Car runs great idles great and doesnt have the white smoke or strong suction at the oil filler cap when removed while idling. I am at a loss as to what keeps triggering the lean codes. Also recently got the code for insufficient secondary air flow -so I put on a new check valve and that code has not come back. The secondary air pump seems to run fine in the mornings on cold start up. Any ideas would be helpful at this point. Thanks
Check my post #12 in this thread. You may need to run the FTP drive cycle (PDF Linked) to get those codes cleared. I did.

The thing is if you don't complete the FTP cycle during normal driving the codes will come back in about 100 miles.

It's not hard to do. On the second page there is a diagram outlining the procedure. If you break any of the speeds/time limits on the test it will fail that portion. I do not believe all the portions have to be completed at the same time either. The one that kept me from keeping the codes cleared was the "Decelerate and come to a stop. Idle in gear for approximately 5 minutes ". Once I did that the codes stayed off.
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Last edited by Ishniknork; 12-16-2014 at 09:27 PM.
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