335D life, price question, etc.

Hey everyone,

I'm new to this forum but I've been lurking it for the past day or so, scrubbing through different threads on the 335D and whatnot. I've admired the car for a while but now am actually contemplating or in the market to buy one.

I've seen a few threads where people seem to have rare instances of trans failure at mileage far below what seems acceptable, and obviously the warranty or extended warranty covered it thankfully and some of you brought up the idea of BMW buying back the car as a lemon.

The new diesels coming out don't really appeal to me like a lot of you. I'd also rather have a nice balance of power and fuel efficiency.

I only saw one comment as to transmission life where someone mentioned they didn't expect the transmission to last until 200,000. So how long do you guys think your transmissions will last?

I've seen a few people ask about prices of 335d's they're considering. I found a 2010 with 62k miles or so for about $23,000 with navigation and stability. I was wondering if that's a decent one considering the amount of miles. I saw someone post something similar and was worried because his prospective 335d had 78k, but people seemed to give good feedback on the lack of problems besides scheduled stuff and a few minors. I'd plan on getting the extended warranty.

I guess I'm seeking out this car because of the potential it has to last me longer than some gasoline options while remaining powerful and efficient. But $23k for a car that might only last another 100,000 miles might not seem worth it to me if I can spend half that on a used Acura or something that will last another 150,000. Granted it won't be as powerful, thrilling, or even fuel efficient but maintenance will be cheaper and overall cost will be too.

I'd appreciate any comments or insight. Thanks for reading.

If you are getting one make sure to buy the extended warranty.
My D was trouble free for the first 65,000 miles or over 3 years.
But unfortunately it developed issues with fuel injector leak and intake manifold with serious carbon build-up requiring over $10,000.00 repairs ($3,000.00+ for replacing the injector and $7,000.00+ for the intake manifold and cleaning out the carbon build-up).
Fortunately BMW covered all the parts and I paid the labor of over $3,500.00!
So this blows away all the FE savings and take away some of the thrills of such a high performance Diesel powertrain!

Other than that it's a great vehicle. If you have extended warranty and can put up with likely injector, carbon build-up and tranny issues then go for it.

Originally Posted by DC-IT

If you are getting one make sure to buy the extended warranty.
My D was trouble free for the first 65,000 miles or over 3 years.
But unfortunately it developed issues with fuel injector leak and intake manifold with serious carbon build-up requiring over $10,000.00 repairs ($3,000.00+ for replacing the injector and $7,000.00+ for the intake manifold and cleaning out the carbon build-up).
Fortunately BMW covered all the parts and I paid the labor of over $3,500.00!
So this blows away all the FE savings and take away some of the thrills of such a high performance Diesel powertrain!

Other than that it's a great vehicle. If you have extended warranty and can put up with likely injector, carbon build-up and tranny issues then go for it.

Thanks for your input. I just read a 5 page thread about the reliability that I just missed but for the most part it's over a year old. Some people were speculative for long-term care the fuel quality could be affecting the injectors and buildup etc. Some people were adamant on Chevron or Shell.

Man that's pretty terrible news. So you had to pay $3500 because you didn't have the extended warranty?

I do not believe there is any transmission issues with the cars, they are certainly better now than a decade ago. But I plan on changing the fluid before the 100K mile recommendation.

Based on all I've read, the single most concerning issue is carbon build-up. While it can be corrected/cleaned, can be expensive. Now if all the various updates have truely fixed the issue, then we may be all worrying for nothing. It does seem lately there has been a reduction in NEW carbon cases mentioned on the boards.

There is also the frequent injector issues, but it seems this has turned out to be more of a DME/programming problem than the actual injectors. Even gas engines with the new direct injection have injector issues.

With that said (and my fingers crossed) at 30K miles have yet to see an SES...

Originally Posted by KeithS

I do not believe there is any transmission issues with the cars, they are certainly better now than a decade ago. But I plan on changing the fluid before the 100K mile recommendation.

Based on all I've read, the single most concerning issue is carbon build-up. While it can be corrected/cleaned, can be expensive. Now if all the various updates have truely fixed the issue, then we may be all worrying for nothing. It does seem lately there has been a reduction in NEW carbon cases mentioned on the boards.

There is also the frequent injector issues, but it seems this has turned out to be more of a DME/programming problem than the actual injectors. Even gas engines with the new direct injection have injector issues.

With that said (and my fingers crossed) at 30K miles have yet to see an SES...

Are the various updates to address carbon buildup all DME updates? So I imagine a DME update has come out in effort to address the injectors?
Thanks for the input.

I also can't find this information on a BMW website. If I buy a 2010 that isn't pre-owned certified, what kind of warranty coverage is there? I imagine it's not the same as the CPO warranty.

If you buy a 2010 that is not certified, you will just have whatever is left (if anything) on the factory warranty. But if you are looking at a car with 63K miles, then there is no warranty. And what is bad is (if I'm not mistaken) because the factory warranty has expired, you do not have the option of purchasing an factory extended warranty. If this is a BMW dealer I would ask them to CPO the vehicle, else no deal.

I got the platinum extended warranty when I originally purchased mine. But that really was for all the electronics in the car (which is not covered by CPO), more than the engine.

Yes most of the updates were to deal with carbon issues in one way or another as well as injector issues. But the jury is still out if the problems really have been solved. Another trend seems to be cars driven hard tend not to have carbon issues.

Originally Posted by KeithS

If you buy a 2010 that is not certified, you will just have whatever is left (if anything) on the factory warranty. But if you are looking at a car with 63K miles, then there is no warranty. And what is bad is (if I'm not mistaken) because the factory warranty has expired, you do not have the option of purchasing an factory extended warranty. If this is a BMW dealer I would ask them to CPO the vehicle, else no deal.

I got the platinum extended warranty when I originally purchased mine. But that really was for all the electronics in the car (which is not covered by CPO), more than the engine.

Yes most of the updates were to deal with carbon issues in one way or another as well as injector issues. But the jury is still out if the problems really have been solved. Another trend seems to be cars driven hard tend not to have carbon issues.

USAA offers an extended warranty that covers a lot including turbos, etc. etc. They quoted 36 months/36k miles for $4600. That seems like the same price for the extended warranty.
I know people who have done that on their non-diesel BMW's, that would definitely make sense. So for once driving a car hard will actually prevent a major issue? Awesome

Originally Posted by rd929

...I've seen a few threads where people seem to have rare instances of trans failure at mileage far below what seems acceptable, ...
...I found a 2010 with 62k miles or so for about $23,000 with navigation and stability.
...But $23k for a car that might only last another 100,000 miles might not seem worth it to me

I think you're reading way too much into this transmission stuff. 1) The tranny in the 335d and X5d is different (much beefier) than the ones in the 328i and 335i. 2) you can't put *ANY* credence upon anecdotal stories here, as there is no statistical relevance to the sampling. 3) previous BMW models have had tranny problems; current ones seem much more reliable. 4) I can think of only 1 instance posted in this diesel forum (quite low). There are always random failures, of no consequence to MTBF.

Forget the transmission.

Stability: you shouldn't consider whether it has stability control or not - it's a standard feature of all BMWs, and has been for 20 years. It's just window-dressing in the listing.

"Another 100K miles": All BMWs, diesel or gas, will last for 200K miles. However, they all will require maintenance (probably not on the engines) during that time. Don't be thinking: "oh, a diesel will run longer", because it's not the engine (or transmission) that is going to be the cost driver in that conversation.

IMHO, you're simply not looking at this possible purchase from the right perspective. You need to consider the cost to maintain the cooling system, the suspension, the fact that oil changes cost around $80 JUST FOR THE OIL AND FILTER, the fact that a navigation updated costs several hundred $ every other year, the cost to maintain the emissions system (!!! this has been the killer here !!!), the roll-your-dice with possible intake coking - read Pierre's post in the "fuel injector..." thread for a better perspective, if you have sport package the RFT tires cost (currently) around $1500 for a set EVERY 25K miles, etc.

One final thing: Mike Miller (BMWCCA Tech column writer): "The price is the price; these cars are extremely expensive to own, properly maintain, and repair."

Update: my injector and intake manifold issues are still not fixed.
I took my D back from the dealer yesterday after they had it for 26 days and told me its fixed and good for another 100,000 KM.

Today I drove it and within 60 KM the check engine light came back on!

Looks like it's not fixed and BMW or the dealer doesn't have a clue how to fix this issue?

I'm taking it back in and leaving it there till its fixed properly.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Bimmer App

Originally Posted by floydarogers

I think you're reading way too much into this transmission stuff. 1) The tranny in the 335d and X5d is different (much beefier) than the ones in the 328i and 335i. 2) you can't put *ANY* credence upon anecdotal stories here, as there is no statistical relevance to the sampling. 3) previous BMW models have had tranny problems; current ones seem much more reliable. 4) I can think of only 1 instance posted in this diesel forum (quite low). There are always random failures, of no consequence to MTBF.

Forget the transmission.

Stability: you shouldn't consider whether it has stability control or not - it's a standard feature of all BMWs, and has been for 20 years. It's just window-dressing in the listing.

"Another 100K miles": All BMWs, diesel or gas, will last for 200K miles. However, they all will require maintenance (probably not on the engines) during that time. Don't be thinking: "oh, a diesel will run longer", because it's not the engine (or transmission) that is going to be the cost driver in that conversation.

IMHO, you're simply not looking at this possible purchase from the right perspective. You need to consider the cost to maintain the cooling system, the suspension, the fact that oil changes cost around $80 JUST FOR THE OIL AND FILTER, the fact that a navigation updated costs several hundred $ every other year, the cost to maintain the emissions system (!!! this has been the killer here !!!), the roll-your-dice with possible intake coking - read Pierre's post in the "fuel injector..." thread for a better perspective, if you have sport package the RFT tires cost (currently) around $1500 for a set EVERY 25K miles, etc.

One final thing: Mike Miller (BMWCCA Tech column writer): "The price is the price; these cars are extremely expensive to own, properly maintain, and repair."

Thank you for that perspective. Yea you're right, maintenance was a factor but you're painting a better picture. I've heard of logic system dying, $120 oil changes etc. So I guess I just need to be willing to pay the price to keep the bad boy running well and just hope nothing major goes wrong outside of warranty.

Well I asked about the transmission because I honestly didn't know. I saw a few examples, but like you said they were few. You hear about diesels running 500,000 miles, my question is whether the transmission will last that long.

Yea I had no idea on stability control. You guys have all the ZHF, ZHPF, ZBBQ, ZMSN hahaha so I wasn't sure if that was an extra package or not.

Wow, DC-IT. You should demand that they open a Puma case on it ASAP. This is totally unacceptable what's going on with your D.

Originally Posted by GreekboyD

Wow, DC-IT. You should demand that they open a Puma case on it ASAP. This is totally unacceptable what's going on with your D.

Thanks bud.
The dealer has been working under the instructions of BMW.
All replacement parts were provided by BMW on goodwill.
Looks like BMW is also not sure how to fix these issues.
That's the impression I'm getting.

Sent from my SGH-I717D using Bimmer App

Originally Posted by rd929

...Yea I had no idea on stability control. You guys have all the ZHF, ZHPF, ZBBQ, ZMSN hahaha so I wasn't sure if that was an extra package or not.

Yeah, well some of the most expensive things that go wrong with current BMWs are the electronics, unfortunately. Corrosion in the wheel-position sensor circuits is quite a common problem. The braking system consists of 5 or more different systems: ADB, TCS, DTC, DSC, hill-holder, "soft" stop, brake drying to name them off the top of my head. On older BMWs, the hydraulic control module costs (?) $600 (?) from BMW, but there's a cheaper re-build option available for (?) $125+shipping/handling. Haven't seen any/many E9x go yet.

Most E9x are only now approaching or exceeding 100K miles. A few have much more, but sample size is very limited. Even my 2010 335d only has 62K miles, and it's actually one of the higher-mileage ones (18K/year does that).

Originally Posted by DC-IT

Thanks bud.
The dealer has been working under the instructions of BMW.
All replacement parts were provided by BMW on goodwill.
Looks like BMW is also not sure how to fix these issues.
That's the impression I'm getting.

Sent from my SGH-I717D using Bimmer App

Lots of technicians don't know diesels. I have a friend who is a BMW technician and says that the "master" technician might know diesels at every dealership and the hope is that their knowledge will "trickle" down to the other techs.

Originally Posted by rd929

USAA offers an extended warranty that covers a lot including turbos, etc. etc. They quoted 36 months/36k miles for $4600. That seems like the same price for the extended warranty.
I know people who have done that on their non-diesel BMW's, that would definitely make sense. So for once driving a car hard will actually prevent a major issue? Awesome

I looked at the USAA option but for $4,400 (through PacificBMW) I got both the extended warranty and the maintenance for an additional 50k miles/2 years, which in my case will give me three more years as I have 50k at 3 yrs, so now got to 100k/6 years.

My D has never left me stranded on the side of the road, which is the crucial issue that determines if I'm keeping a car or not. The dealer is on my way to work so dropping it off and continuing on my way in a loaner is a minor nuisance.

Other than the scheduled services I may have been in twice for SES or other warning all related to the DEF or DPF. I bought the Garmin Ecoroute HD which has a code scanner and I can reset any nuisance code and at least "diagnose" if my problem is really a serious issue or not. Anything to do with the DEF is a non-issue as it has no affect on the cars ability to drive, unless you get the "999 miles to shutdown" due to low DEF level!

Driving this car continues to put a smile on my face every morning and I plan to hold on as long as it doesn't leave me stranded on the side of the road. Then I'll shoot it, if that is still legal.

Originally Posted by Flyingman

I looked at the USAA option but for $4,400 (through PacificBMW) I got both the extended warranty and the maintenance for an additional 50k miles/2 years, which in my case will give me three more years as I have 50k at 3 yrs, so now got to 100k/6 years.

My D has never left me stranded on the side of the road, which is the crucial issue that determines if I'm keeping a car or not. The dealer is on my way to work so dropping it off and continuing on my way in a loaner is a minor nuisance.

Other than the scheduled services I may have been in twice for SES or other warning all related to the DEF or DPF. I bought the Garmin Ecoroute HD which has a code scanner and I can reset any nuisance code and at least "diagnose" if my problem is really a serious issue or not. Anything to do with the DEF is a non-issue as it has no affect on the cars ability to drive, unless you get the "999 miles to shutdown" due to low DEF level!

Driving this car continues to put a smile on my face every morning and I plan to hold on as long as it doesn't leave me stranded on the side of the road. Then I'll shoot it, if that is still legal.

Good to know ill have to look into other options. And no, I believe they're gonna pass car cruelty and you're going to have to wait for a kosher or similar guideline to come up on how to euthanize your car hahaha

It'd be great to have a car that will last a decade that you enjoy driving and gets
Good mileage like the 335D. What are you guys going to do come time for a new car, if you don't like the new BMW diesels? Unless you can afford the 535 seems like the 328D got the shaft on power.

Originally Posted by GreekboyD

Lots of technicians don't know diesels. I have a friend who is a BMW technician and says that the "master" technician might know diesels at every dealership and the hope is that their knowledge will "trickle" down to the other techs.

That makes a lot of sense. The question is, do those speciality shops that claim to work on just BMW or a small combo of BMW, MB, Saab or what have you really know diesel
Engines as well or are they also listening to the computer?

Originally Posted by DC-IT

Update: my injector and intake manifold issues are still not fixed.
I took my D back from the dealer yesterday after they had it for 26 days and told me its fixed and good for another 100,000 KM.

Today I drove it and within 60 KM the check engine light came back on!

Looks like it's not fixed and BMW or the dealer doesn't have a clue how to fix this issue?

I'm taking it back in and leaving it there till its fixed properly.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Bimmer App

New to this site because I got bad news this week from dealer about my 2010 335d with 71k miles on it. $6000 to clean possible clogged cylinder head intake ports due to carbon buildup. I am not a tech so don't get this and I am furious because my last car was a BMW 1995 540i which I drove for 239,000 with no repair that ever came close to that. I bought this car thinking I would save on gas and that it would last even longer AND that the repairs would not be as bad because I was informed by others who know cars that diesel is easier on your engine. I do not have the resources to be paying these kind of repair bills. Oh...do have the extended warranty which they just informed me was for maintenance only, not for mechanical problems. Another surprise. So...my question to any of you who really know cars, is this an ongoing problem for this car and I can expect to fork out this much every 70k miles or is it a one time thing. I do drive the car hard BTW when I enter the freeway. Or should I just sell the car and forget about these BMW diesels? I love this car and sick about this but it is all about money. Would appreciate any info I can get out there.

Roadlvr, These cars definately have a carbon build-up problem. BMW has been experimenting with various ECU and EGR valve changes for the past year or so to try and resolve this. There are patterns, but nothing black and white to go on.

The pattern that I have seen is any of the d's that have accumulated a lot of miles before the ECU/EGR changes were made (like yours), almost all have carbon build up issues. For cars that did not have too many miles before the upgrades, it seems these are for the most part OK, but only time will tell if the changes made really solve the carbon issue for the long term. This is caused by the heavy use of EGR which is deliberately feeding back exhaust and soot into the engine to reduce NOx emissions. This in term solidifies/cokes up creating large carbon deposits fouling the entire intake and cylinder head.

My car is an example of the latter. Only had about 15K miles on it before the first update was applied and now at 30K miles have had zero issues. You will have to ask me in a few years when mine has 70K+ miles on it if the problem really is solved (but as I did get the extended warranty - will be covered regardless).

Due to the evidence this is a design/programming issue, I would ask for a goodwill repair to cover all or at least a good part of the cleaning.

Originally Posted by KeithS

Roadlvr, These cars definately have a carbon build-up problem. BMW has been experimenting with various ECU and EGR valve changes for the past year or so to try and resolve this. There are patterns, but nothing black and white to go on.

The pattern that I have seen is any of the d's that have accumulated a lot of miles before the ECU/EGR changes were made (like yours), almost all have carbon build up issues. For cars that did not have too many miles before the upgrades, it seems these are for the most part OK, but only time will tell if the changes made really solve the carbon issue for the long term. This is caused by the heavy use of EGR which is deliberately feeding back exhaust and soot into the engine to reduce NOx emissions. This in term solidifies/cokes up creating large carbon deposits fouling the entire intake and cylinder head.

My car is an example of the latter. Only had about 15K miles on it before the first update was applied and now at 30K miles have had zero issues. You will have to ask me in a few years when mine has 70K+ miles on it if the problem really is solved (but as I did get the extended warranty - will be covered regardless).

Due to the evidence this is a design/programming issue, I would ask for a goodwill repair to cover all or at least a good part of the cleaning.

Thanks Keith. This is very informative. What is EGR? Also, these cars have been running in Europe for quite some time and I did not hear that there were problems with them there when I bought the car. Why problems here? Is it a different car?

Originally Posted by roadluvr

Thanks Keith. This is very informative. What is EGR? Also, these cars have been running in Europe for quite some time and I did not hear that there were problems with them there when I bought the car. Why problems here? Is it a different car?

Exhaust Gas Recirculation. It's a system that reduces NOx emissions and has been used for quite some time in EU, on VW and MB engines, and in the US on the bigger rigs.

The EGR valve in use in the US/CA is different than the one used in EU. The control system is also different. There is some (SOME) evidence that there were problems with the first use of this EGR system on the US/CA engines; supported by the replacement of many valves and re-programming of the DDE (ECU) last year in a recall. There is speculation that the observed carbon buildup on the intake valves is caused by this - however most people (me included) have not had problems.

Although Keith and others swear there are problems, claim that it's a design flaw and that BMW should fix it are unsupported by statistical evidence (at least any that is available to us.) Indeed, the majority of forum members have not had this problem (by my count).

Originally Posted by roadluvr

New to this site because I got bad news this week from dealer about my 2010 335d with 71k miles on it. $6000 to clean possible clogged cylinder head intake ports due to carbon buildup. I am not a tech so don't get this and I am furious because my last car was a BMW 1995 540i which I drove for 239,000 with no repair that ever came close to that. I bought this car thinking I would save on gas and that it would last even longer AND that the repairs would not be as bad because I was informed by others who know cars that diesel is easier on your engine. I do not have the resources to be paying these kind of repair bills. Oh...do have the extended warranty which they just informed me was for maintenance only, not for mechanical problems. Another surprise. So...my question to any of you who really know cars, is this an ongoing problem for this car and I can expect to fork out this much every 70k miles or is it a one time thing. I do drive the car hard BTW when I enter the freeway. Or should I just sell the car and forget about these BMW diesels? I love this car and sick about this but it is all about money. Would appreciate any info I can get out there.

It really looks like the EGR recall was issued to address this carbon/soot/gunk buildup issue. BMW knows that this happens and it is not the result of owners doing anything but driving the car. I would tell the dealer this and ask them to open a PUMA case (or whatever it is called) asking BMW NA to cover the repairs for what really is a design issue.

I have read about at least one other person that was out of warranty who had BMW help with the repairs (BMW covered the parts). Personally, I don't think that this is enough because of the nature of the failure, but it is definitely better than nothing. The other point is that the standard remedy is replacement of the head and in some cases the intake manifold. Probably because the gunk is soft and gooey as opposed to the hard crusty carbon that builds up on the valves in DI engines. I am no expert, but if BMW is replacing them for everyone else there probably is a reason. Plus cleaning really sounds more labor intensive than replacement (assuming you get the parts covered of course).

Good luck, and let us know how things work out.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682116

The direct injected gas engines have some major intake clogging issues. A lot of those guys are doing walnut shell blasting procedures every 40-50k miles to deal with it. Your dealers quote for cleaning the intake/valves seems excessive.

Originally Posted by roadluvr

New to this site because I got bad news this week from dealer about my 2010 335d with 71k miles on it. $6000 to clean possible clogged cylinder head intake ports due to carbon buildup. I am not a tech so don't get this and I am furious because my last car was a BMW 1995 540i which I drove for 239,000 with no repair that ever came close to that. I bought this car thinking I would save on gas and that it would last even longer AND that the repairs would not be as bad because I was informed by others who know cars that diesel is easier on your engine. I do not have the resources to be paying these kind of repair bills. Oh...do have the extended warranty which they just informed me was for maintenance only, not for mechanical problems. Another surprise. So...my question to any of you who really know cars, is this an ongoing problem for this car and I can expect to fork out this much every 70k miles or is it a one time thing. I do drive the car hard BTW when I enter the freeway. Or should I just sell the car and forget about these BMW diesels? I love this car and sick about this but it is all about money. Would appreciate any info I can get out there.

I too was under the impression that a diesel powertrain was built to last a million KM of heavy duty driving when I decided to switch my three vehicles to diesel!
Apparently we may have to go through this every 60-70k miles as my SA said I should be good for another 100k miles when I picked up my D after the cleaning of the cylinder head + replacement of the intake manifold and fuel injector during the last month.
It lasted 50 KM of driving and the check engine light returned!

I feel BMW should fix these issues on good will as its a powertrain / design failure. So far I've paid over $3,600.00 for the labor costs while BMW provide the parts on good will.
The total costs including parts would have been over $10,000!
This is unacceptable as its a design flaw and happen at only 65K miles which is just shortly after the warranty.

If my D can be fixed I would either trade it in or drive it for the next 2 years as it now has a 2 year warranty for the repair work. If I keep it I will trade it in before the 2 years up.

I certainly would not buy another BMW after this experience.


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From what I have read BMW had a recall to change the EGR strategy. The very stringent EPA standards have taken some time to practically achieve. Besides changing the EGR strategy, when Ford designed the 6.7L they moved the EGR valve to the hot side(before the cooler) to preclude issues they experienced with previous engines(6.0, 6.4) and EGR coking. I have not traced my 3.0 out yet but I suspect that it is on the cold side. We need fuel standards here. A higher cetane value would help due to a more complete burn of the fuel....

I am still a bit confused about the BMW figuring-it-out-as-we-go-along strategy. That may a bit harsh, knowing how real life is on technical matters in my own industry. I will give one example. Last summer they had a recall to replace the SCR metering unit. That was followed by the major one that replaced the EGR valve and SCR mixer. Two different dealers told me the SCR metering unit one was superseded by the newer one, and based on the numbering of the recalls it seems that was maybe the intent. But there is no SCR Metering unit part replaced in the newer and supposedly more comprehensive recall. So in one month they must have decided that the SCR Metering Unit wasn't really an issue after all, and so it was not needed. Both of those recalls covered my engine and production month. At this point of only 12k miles I have no problems, but I had planned to keep this beast for a long time. I do drive it kinda briskly, although being a bit more senior than the average boy racer, I try not to take on all comers at every opportunity so as to preserve a modicum of decorum.