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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 03-17-2012, 03:19 PM
Gfabry Gfabry is offline
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Engine misfiring

Hi everyone,

Got the JB4 and DCI on my 2008 335i with 70k miles, everything was great until last night. The engine was misfiring under WOT and even more under WOT in low RPMs running map 1. If I keep pushing I get the Service Engine Soon and creates a code: cylinder 3 misfiring.
I inverted coil 3 with coil 1 this morning, deleted the codes, and still have the same problem and still showing the cylinder 3 misfiring. Spark plugs have 23000 miles. It doesn't seems to misfire while on Map0 so stock boost. Idle is perfect, car runs great if you dont push it hard.
When I removed the coil number 3, I noticed some oil on it, no oil on the coil one tho.

I hate to feel the car like this, any help or past experience input would be greatly appreciated

Thank you!
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2012, 08:51 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfabry View Post
Hi everyone,

Got the JB4 and DCI on my 2008 335i with 70k miles, everything was great until last night. The engine was misfiring under WOT and even more under WOT in low RPMs running map 1. If I keep pushing I get the Service Engine Soon and creates a code: cylinder 3 misfiring.
I inverted coil 3 with coil 1 this morning, deleted the codes, and still have the same problem and still showing the cylinder 3 misfiring. Spark plugs have 23000 miles. It doesn't seems to misfire while on Map0 so stock boost. Idle is perfect, car runs great if you dont push it hard.
When I removed the coil number 3, I noticed some oil on it, no oil on the coil one tho.

I hate to feel the car like this, any help or past experience input would be greatly appreciated

Thank you!
Magic 8 Ball says "Injector, without a doubt"
Wow, imagine that, experience based internet diagnosis! I'll PM you the bill.
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  #3  
Old 03-17-2012, 08:58 PM
Gfabry Gfabry is offline
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Yes no pb, I will be waiting for it, pretty sure it will be less expensive than the stealership.. What makes you think it's the injector without a doubt?
Thanks for you message
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  #4  
Old 03-17-2012, 09:32 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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I used to take wild ass guesses, but found my Magic 8 Ball far more reliable. It has 35 years experience as a mechanic, but more importantly it reads every post it can find on the internet in regard to engine problems on 335's. Believe me, this diagnosis is worth every penny you're paying me for it.
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  #5  
Old 03-17-2012, 11:11 PM
RGBiMMER RGBiMMER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfabry View Post
Hi everyone,

Got the JB4 and DCI on my 2008 335i with 70k miles, everything was great until last night. The engine was misfiring under WOT and even more under WOT in low RPMs running map 1. If I keep pushing I get the Service Engine Soon and creates a code: cylinder 3 misfiring.
I inverted coil 3 with coil 1 this morning, deleted the codes, and still have the same problem and still showing the cylinder 3 misfiring. Spark plugs have 23000 miles. It doesn't seems to misfire while on Map0 so stock boost. Idle is perfect, car runs great if you dont push it hard.
When I removed the coil number 3, I noticed some oil on it, no oil on the coil one tho.

I hate to feel the car like this, any help or past experience input would be greatly appreciated

Thank you!
I would call BMS and ask them.
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  #6  
Old 03-18-2012, 05:13 PM
Gfabry Gfabry is offline
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DSXmachina you were probably just right, here is today's update.
I did swap fuel injector 3 with 2 as i initially had a misfire on cylinder 3, then deleted the codes and took the car out for a few pulls, same problem but the codes were showing a misfire on cylinder 2 now. I didn't change the plugs yet because I'm waiting for the socket, but the bad injector followed the misfire.. And that injector was black when I pulled it out..
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  #7  
Old 03-18-2012, 05:44 PM
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Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is offline
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new injectors need to be coded to the dme. also if you move them from cylinder to cylinder
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  #8  
Old 03-18-2012, 05:59 PM
Gfabry Gfabry is offline
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Oh oh. What are the risks involved with switching 2 injectors and no coding?
So I will probably replace the injectors 2 in cylinder 2 and get a new injector for cylinder 3. Is coding a difficult thing to do or following a DIY should be enough?
Thanks!
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  #9  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:03 PM
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Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfabry View Post
Oh oh. What are the risks involved with switching 2 injectors and no coding?
So I will probably replace the injectors 2 in cylinder 2 and get a new injector for cylinder 3. Is coding a difficult thing to do or following a DIY should be enough?
Thanks!
only the dealers computer (or the leaked copies of INPA) can code an injector. i suspect since the coding tells the dme the fuel flow rate of the injector, you might have a cylinder run rich or lean if not coded.

not sure if the autologic that indys have can do coding.
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  #10  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:05 PM
Gfabry Gfabry is offline
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Ok, thanks. So if I replace the injector 2 back in cylinder 2, I will be ok, it's only if I place a new injector in cylinder 3 that I need coding right?
Or can I get a shop to clean the bad injector? Or should I just replace it?
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  #11  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:17 PM
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Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfabry View Post
Ok, thanks. So if I replace the injector 2 back in cylinder 2, I will be ok, it's only if I place a new injector in cylinder 3 that I need coding right?
Or can I get a shop to clean the bad injector? Or should I just replace it?

have it replaced. i dont think you can clean it. if you put the cyl 2 injector back in cyl 2, no need to code. right now the engine thinks all injectors are where they are supposed to be.
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:34 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfabry View Post
Oh oh. What are the risks involved with switching 2 injectors and no coding?
So I will probably replace the injectors 2 in cylinder 2 and get a new injector for cylinder 3. Is coding a difficult thing to do or following a DIY should be enough?
Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC View Post
only the dealers computer (or the leaked copies of INPA) can code an injector. i suspect since the coding tells the dme the fuel flow rate of the injector, you might have a cylinder run rich or lean if not coded.

not sure if the autologic that indys have can do coding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfabry View Post
Ok, thanks. So if I replace the injector 2 back in cylinder 2, I will be ok, it's only if I place a new injector in cylinder 3 that I need coding right?
Or can I get a shop to clean the bad injector? Or should I just replace it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC View Post
have it replaced. i dont think you can clean it. if you put the cyl 2 injector back in cyl 2, no need to code. right now the engine thinks all injectors are where they are supposed to be.
Orient is correct about coding the injectors BUT it is really just to make it so the computer knows the flow rate of a new injector right from the start.
If you don't code the computer it will still learn entirely on its own, but it will take a while. What's a while? I don't know, but I suspect it's a couple of EPA drive cycles at least. What 's an EPA drive cycle for your car? Damned if I remember, but normal driving over the course of a few days is usually enough.
(Orient, no we can't flash the darned things because BMW doesn't care to trust us with the flow rate info for each new injector. Why not? It's emission related and the government says they have to tell us everything involved with emissions. Right. But since the part warranty lasts as long as the emissions warranty BMW's response is that they don't have to tell us because it's on the warranty and they will fix it for free. What about once its off the part warranty? Wellllll...then it's also off the emissions warranty so they aren't required to tell us squat. So it goes.)

Note about cleaning. I would also buy a new injector rather than try to have one of these things cleaned. For regular fuel injectors we use a rebuild shop which tears them apart, replaces a few things, flow tests and pattern tests them, and does it for about a third the cost of a new injector. They operate at 50-100 psi, the 335 injectors are popping at up to a couple thousand psi and operate using piezoelectric pulsing rather than solenoid activation. Far more complex devices.

Note to gfabry; never question the Magic 8 Ball again.

Last edited by DSXMachina; 03-18-2012 at 06:42 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:43 PM
Gfabry Gfabry is offline
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Thanks guys, very much. If it is not risky for the engine I might replace the injector 2 back in cylinder 2 and get a new injector for cylinder 3 and let the computer code it by itselft. I don't know if the dealer would accept to just code it, and his much they would charge for it.
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:52 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfabry View Post
Thanks guys, very much. If it is not risky for the engine I might replace the injector 2 back in cylinder 2 and get a new injector for cylinder 3 and let the computer code it by itselft. I don't know if the dealer would accept to just code it, and his much they would charge for it.
One of two things will happen if you just install a new injector without any coding.
The first is that you probably won't notice any difference whatsoever in performance, but the B1S1 sensor will pick up an unusual rich or lean condition and the STFT will go positive or negative and drag the LTFT with it for a couple days. This will have no ill effect whatsoever on your engine or driveability.
The second is that your engine will burst into a ball of flame, seize up and fall out of the car. That's worst case and I'm just covering my ass. The risk is yours.
I know what I would do.
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2012, 07:26 PM
Gfabry Gfabry is offline
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Alright then I will get it coded at the dealer. Do you think I can still drive it a day without coding or same risks?
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2012, 07:49 PM
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galahad05 galahad05 is offline
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lol I do enjoy reading DSX's posts.
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2012, 05:04 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
One of two things will happen if you just install a new injector without any coding.
The first is that you probably won't notice any difference whatsoever in performance, but the B1S1 sensor will pick up an unusual rich or lean condition and the STFT will go positive or negative and drag the LTFT with it for a couple days. This will have no ill effect whatsoever on your engine or driveability.
The second is that your engine will burst into a ball of flame, seize up and fall out of the car. That's worst case and I'm just covering my ass. The risk is yours.
I know what I would do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfabry View Post
Alright then I will get it coded at the dealer. Do you think I can still drive it a day without coding or same risks?
Errrrmm, no, install the new injector and don't code it unless the dealer is doing it for free. The computer will learn the new injector's flow rate over a few days and will then perform as if you coded it.

Here's the story behind the story. Your injectors are always changing flow rate. They are hot. They are cold. Fuel pressure is a little off the target. They are wearing out, and who knows what else.
Your computer is programmed to adjust for all that all the time. Figuring out how to handle one new inector? It can do that with one chip tied behind its motherboard.
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  #18  
Old 03-19-2012, 05:30 AM
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Whew! It all sounds so complicated. I sure am glad my reliable 328i has a carburetor! I love tweaking butterfly valves.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:18 AM
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Your still just guesing with the injector. 23k miles on plugs with a tune it's time to change them. Also, at 70k miles the intake valves are probably seriously carboned up. You need to check more things befor throwing parts at it.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:21 AM
Gfabry Gfabry is offline
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Ok, DSX machina- so I installed it this morning before going to work, so I should be ok leaving the computer figuring it out by itself right?
Thanks
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  #21  
Old 03-19-2012, 06:26 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Originally Posted by Gfabry View Post
Ok, DSX machina- so I installed it this morning before going to work, so I should be ok leaving the computer figuring it out by itself right?
Thanks
Yup. Let us know how it went.
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  #22  
Old 03-19-2012, 06:28 AM
Gfabry Gfabry is offline
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David, do you think it's time to change the valves? If yes how can I check how good/bad they are?
Thanks
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  #23  
Old 03-19-2012, 07:55 AM
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David, do you think it's time to change the valves? If yes how can I check how good/bad they are?
Thanks
Clean, not change. You either have to pull the intake or use a borascope to take a peak, but probably carboned up like all of them are. I have seen bad carbon deposits at 40k miles.
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  #24  
Old 03-19-2012, 07:59 AM
Gfabry Gfabry is offline
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Thanks David, have you ever done it or do you know if there is a DIY online? If not I will go and look.
Thanks again
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  #25  
Old 03-20-2012, 08:37 PM
Gfabry Gfabry is offline
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Hi guys, here is an update:
Went to a shop today, did install the new plugs, coded the injectors and did a valve cover treatment. Not an inexpensive package but the car runs much better now, just wishing the valve cover treatment would have been done every 15k miles by the previous owners...
Sometimes I still have a little hesitation under WOT but it might be the other injectors getting old or the carbon deposit on the valves, they told me only one treatment done at 70k is not enough to get everything out
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