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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 07-26-2014, 06:24 PM
erwinqk erwinqk is offline
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Should I buy a car that has been modified?

Hi everyone, I don't know much about cars, and the only BMW I've owned is a 2008 328xi. I'm shopping for a newer used vehicle, and one has caught my interest: 2012 335i with xDrive. I spoke to the sales guy, and he has notified me the car has had a couple of mods. I know nothing of the sorts, and I have no one I know that can help me (I'm a girl.), so hopefully someone can help me make a better decision. So far, he's told me the previous owner had it so theres cool air intake and after market catalytic converter or some thing? He also told me in order to have it here in my state (PA), I'd have to do some thing in order to pass emission. I was concerned if these mods will void the factory warranty that is balanced left on the vehicle. It is a '12 with 30 some thing miles.
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  #2  
Old 07-26-2014, 06:57 PM
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a) Find out exactly what the mods are. Not all mods are created equally. Cosmetic mods are usually benign. Engine mods? be careful.
b) a word of warning mods are often associated with a car that has been driven hard and abused. It's certainly not always and I'm sure I'll get some flak for saying that.
c) given that the car would not currently pass emissions is a huge red flag. If I were you I would run very fast very far away from this car.
d) are dealers even legally able to sell a car that will not pass emissions? This must not be a BMW dealer.
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Old 07-26-2014, 07:00 PM
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galahad05 galahad05 is online now
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Point d) is pretty interesting.

Can a used car even be registered if it doesn't pass emissions?
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Old 07-26-2014, 07:05 PM
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Um, by that I mean, a first-time registration.
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Old 07-26-2014, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galahad05 View Post
Point d) is pretty interesting.

Can a used car even be registered if it doesn't pass emissions?
Not typically.

I guy I used to work with traded in his Jeep on a new car. He had removed the cat, but it would still pass the tailpipe emissions test (back when they were doing those instead of OBD scans). The dealer called him 6 months later, said the car had failed an inspection for the new owner, and insisted he (a) pay a stupid amount of money to replace the cat or (b) void the deal and pay back what they gave him. His lawyer told him to go with plan (a) as they could apparently enforce (b) if they wanted to.
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Old 07-26-2014, 07:31 PM
DEFKON99 DEFKON99 is offline
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Personally stay away if the modifications are half fast. The way most punks just out of high school do em these days is ghetto. But if the mods are legit and done by a reputable shop IE: Dinan , AA or by a PO who actually knows what the hell he was doing. yea! Otherwise Id find a virgin car as much as possible.
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Old 07-26-2014, 07:58 PM
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CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinqk View Post
Hi everyone, I don't know much about cars, and the only BMW I've owned is a 2008 328xi. I'm shopping for a newer used vehicle, and one has caught my interest: 2012 335i with xDrive. I spoke to the sales guy, and he has notified me the car has had a couple of mods. I know nothing of the sorts, and I have no one I know that can help me (I'm a girl.), so hopefully someone can help me make a better decision. So far, he's told me the previous owner had it so theres cool air intake and after market catalytic converter or some thing? He also told me in order to have it here in my state (PA), I'd have to do some thing in order to pass emission. I was concerned if these mods will void the factory warranty that is balanced left on the vehicle. It is a '12 with 30 some thing miles.

Well, if you're not mechanically inclined and experienced, pass on this one. Guessing the price was low - there's a reason for that.

Not a good car for general transportation and pleasant travel - it's been modded for a 'Sporting' driver....may not have been knowledgeable either. There's risk.

.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY DUE; 07-26-2014 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 07-26-2014, 08:00 PM
alpinweiss alpinweiss is offline
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I would run, run, run away from this car.

IMO, if it was a simple fix to get the car to pass an emissions test, the dealer would have already done it.

If the after-market catalytic converters are preventing the car from passing the emissions test, these may have to be replaced with BMW factory parts. There is a potential for this car to need thousands of dollars in repairs.

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Old 07-26-2014, 08:06 PM
erwinqk erwinqk is offline
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Thank you for the inputs, I definitely take it into consideration and will be using it as reference when I talk to the sales guy tomorrow. I'll be looking forward to hear anymore responses
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Old 07-26-2014, 10:20 PM
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When you talk to the sales guy tomorrow write down exactly what the mods are. Intake I get but seeing how it's a 335i I'd be inclined to say the catalytic issue is that it has downpipes without cats. And if it has downpipes and an intake I would bet that it also had (or has) an aftermarket tune. Not saying that is a definite deal breaker but it would definitely make the emissions issue difficult as you mentioned.

Rule of thumb on buying a car - if in doubt walk out. Plenty of cars out there. Worth it to find the right one. Let us know what you find.
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  #11  
Old 07-27-2014, 05:32 AM
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Should I buy a car that has been modified?

Run away.
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2014, 05:37 AM
roadkillrob roadkillrob is offline
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Avoid that for sure - sounds like it has catless downpipes and needs a downpipe fix installed in the ECU box to pass emissions, only reason for a cold air intake and DP's is if it has or had modified engine software, either a flash or piggyback tuner, either way, if you are not looking for a tuned car and have the skills to deal with it, keep looking and yes all those things can void warranty if the dealer finds or has found them in the past.
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Old 07-27-2014, 05:44 AM
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CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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Originally Posted by Dwight_Schrute View Post
When you talk to the sales guy tomorrow write down exactly what the mods are. Intake I get but seeing how it's a 335i I'd be inclined to say the catalytic issue is that it has downpipes without cats. And if it has downpipes and an intake I would bet that it also had (or has) an aftermarket tune. Not saying that is a definite deal breaker but it would definitely make the emissions issue difficult as you mentioned.

Rule of thumb on buying a car - if in doubt walk out. Plenty of cars out there. Worth it to find the right one. Let us know what you find.

Yes, well, I suppose those pesky EPA nerds would insist that - only a technicality - cat removal is a flagrant violation of Federal law and a criminal offense if driven on public roads.

OP, you should prob bring this up with "your salesperson" at some point in the negotiation. Uh, did you take it for a test drive?


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Old 07-27-2014, 10:50 AM
alpinweiss alpinweiss is offline
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Originally Posted by erwinqk View Post
Thank you for the inputs, I definitely take it into consideration and will be using it as reference when I talk to the sales guy tomorrow. I'll be looking forward to hear anymore responses
I do not know the true story behind this car, so I propose the following fictional account:

The dealer now selling the car is an independent, and bought the car at a dealers' auction. Auctions are typically "buyer beware" and "purchase at your own risk".

The independent dealer knew the "check engine light" was illuminated, but thought it would be either covered under BMW factory warranty, or at minimal cost. So he bid and won the auction for a beautiful late-model low-mileage BMW. With an unknown mechanical problem.

The independent dealer took the car to a BMW dealer, only to be informed the car has extensive modifications, and is not covered by factory warranty. It will cost thousands of dollars to correct the car.

So now, the independent dealer is stuck with a car that cannot pass an emissions test.

Again, this is just fiction....

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Old 07-27-2014, 11:27 AM
Flatland328 Flatland328 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinqk View Post
Hi everyone, I don't know much about cars, and the only BMW I've owned is a 2008 328xi. I'm shopping for a newer used vehicle, and one has caught my interest: 2012 335i with xDrive. I spoke to the sales guy, and he has notified me the car has had a couple of mods. I know nothing of the sorts, and I have no one I know that can help me (I'm a girl.), so hopefully someone can help me make a better decision. So far, he's told me the previous owner had it so theres cool air intake and after market catalytic converter or some thing? He also told me in order to have it here in my state (PA), I'd have to do some thing in order to pass emission. I was concerned if these mods will void the factory warranty that is balanced left on the vehicle. It is a '12 with 30 some thing miles.
If you really, really like the car and the price is right, call a BMW dealer in the area and see what they would charge to look at the car and run the key. You may want to see if an independent shop can look at it if a dealer isn't an option. Without knowing more, I think you'd be crazy to buy a BMW that you know has repairs looming. As others have said, repairs can run into the thousands of dollars on a BMW. I wouldn't buy the car until they can show that the car has no service or warranty issues and that it can pass emissions.

Along with that, any BMW that has had performance modifications should be assumed to have been abused by its prior owner. People don't put CAI and exhaust modifications onto a car that they drive gently. They typically thrash the hell out of their cars at times, and any car, regardless of its pedigree, is probably going to be expected to have a shorter life in that situation. If it's a great deal and you can get a good feel for the costs that you are looking at and the money works, and you know that you only want the car for a few years, it might be worth considering.

Everything else suggests that you take the advice of the posters above and find a different car.
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Old 07-27-2014, 11:48 AM
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Dwight_Schrute Dwight_Schrute is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY DUE View Post
Yes, well, I suppose those pesky EPA nerds would insist that - only a technicality - cat removal is a flagrant violation of Federal law and a criminal offense if driven on public roads.

OP, you should prob bring this up with "your salesperson" at some point in the negotiation. Uh, did you take it for a test drive?


Attachment 454737
Which is the same reason I didn't buy that used mattress that had the tag removed..... And it was a used mattress.
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:10 PM
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Counterpoint to those who say a modified car means an abused car:

There are two 335i's for sale. One has been modified - tune, intake, exhaust, etc - but has also been properly maintained. Oil and other fluids have been changed at the proper intervals if not sooner. Owner followed the proper break-in guidelines. Always made sure the vehicle was up to operating temperature before putting a load on the engine or revving it past 3k RPM's. He/she would always give a cool down period after driving spirited before shut down.

The other one has never had the oil changed, or the one time it was it wasn't approved synthetic. The previous owner had no idea what the word maintenance means. They would start it up back out of the driveway and immediately take it to redline. Didn't care to let the oil warm up before flogging the turbos or other components and felt the same about cooling down. Hitting potholes was a game as was kissing curbs.

Which car would you rather buy? Yes a modified car can spell abuse but so can an unmodified one. Tunes and the like can shorten the lifespan of a vehicle but so can lack of maintenance and proper care. Buying a used car is a crapshoot. (Heck, buying a new car can be too.) I guess it's all about your comfort level with the previous owner (if you're fortunate enough to meet them) and the mods. I think the OP is uncomfortable with what's been done to the car, probably because she isn't aware of what it is or what it means, but that doesn't mean it's been abused and it's a bad buy for everyone.
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Old 07-27-2014, 02:35 PM
Flatland328 Flatland328 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight_Schrute View Post
Counterpoint to those who say a modified car means an abused car:

There are two 335i's for sale. One has been modified - tune, intake, exhaust, etc - but has also been properly maintained. Oil and other fluids have been changed at the proper intervals if not sooner. Owner followed the proper break-in guidelines. Always made sure the vehicle was up to operating temperature before putting a load on the engine or revving it past 3k RPM's. He/she would always give a cool down period after driving spirited before shut down.

The other one has never had the oil changed, or the one time it was it wasn't approved synthetic. The previous owner had no idea what the word maintenance means. They would start it up back out of the driveway and immediately take it to redline. Didn't care to let the oil warm up before flogging the turbos or other components and felt the same about cooling down. Hitting potholes was a game as was kissing curbs.

Which car would you rather buy? Yes a modified car can spell abuse but so can an unmodified one. Tunes and the like can shorten the lifespan of a vehicle but so can lack of maintenance and proper care. Buying a used car is a crapshoot. (Heck, buying a new car can be too.) I guess it's all about your comfort level with the previous owner (if you're fortunate enough to meet them) and the mods. I think the OP is uncomfortable with what's been done to the car, probably because she isn't aware of what it is or what it means, but that doesn't mean it's been abused and it's a bad buy for everyone.
Running a car up to the redline (or near) on a regular basis is hard on a car whether you warm it up and cool it down properly or not. Taking a car to a track and flogging it is incredibly hard on it, regardless of how much TLC you put into it. Part of the fun of owning a sports sedan is giving it a beating every now and again. In general, someone who has taken the time to put performance modifications on a car is telling the world, "I push my car so hard that stock wasn't good enough". There are exceptions of course, but a well maintained, modified 335i that goes to the track and/or gets thrashed is still far more likely to have mechanical issues than option 3 which you failed to list......a well maintained stock 335i. If someone is concerned about a car's reliability, they should look for that instead of the two examples you gave.
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Old 07-27-2014, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Flatland328 View Post
Running a car up to the redline (or near) on a regular basis is hard on a car whether you warm it up and cool it down properly or not. Taking a car to a track and flogging it is incredibly hard on it, regardless of how much TLC you put into it. Part of the fun of owning a sports sedan is giving it a beating every now and again. In general, someone who has taken the time to put performance modifications on a car is telling the world, "I push my car so hard that stock wasn't good enough". There are exceptions of course, but a well maintained, modified 335i that goes to the track and/or gets thrashed is still far more likely to have mechanical issues than option 3 which you failed to list......a well maintained stock 335i. If someone is concerned about a car's reliability, they should look for that instead of the two examples you gave.
I understand what you are saying and you make a good point. What I'm saying is that many times options 2 and 3 are sometimes impossible to tell apart. Even if one has records it doesn't tell you how it was driven. Like I said, it's a crapshoot.

I still contend that just because a car has been modded doesn't mean it's been abused. In fact, someone who has the skill and knowledge to mod their vehicle might just also know how to maintain and drive it so as to minimize unneeded wear and tear. If two cars each are redlined every morning on their way to work, a stock one as soon as it leaves the garage and a modified one after it has been properly warmed up, I'll buy the modified one every day. Of course, that's just my opinion. To each their own. I'm not saying you're wrong, just giving an alternate viewpoint.

Of course I don't think we'd agree on the Apple Cup either. Go Dawgs!
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Old 07-27-2014, 05:19 PM
alpinweiss alpinweiss is offline
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Although the discussion about the car being abused is important, I view this as a secondary problem. Right now, the main problem is the car will not pass an emissions test. Therefore, it may not be possible to license the car. I think the factory warranty may also be in jeopardy, on parts related to the modifications.

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Old Yesterday, 10:06 AM
erwinqk erwinqk is offline
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Thank you everyone for your input it was definitely helpful for me to ask him the right questions. It is true it's catless and they put a CO2 sensor to keep the check engine light down and after he told me that I declined the offer.
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Old Yesterday, 11:23 AM
Turborascal Turborascal is offline
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Old Yesterday, 12:26 PM
alpinweiss alpinweiss is offline
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Thank you everyone for your input it was definitely helpful for me to ask him the right questions. It is true it's catless and they put a CO2 sensor to keep the check engine light down and after he told me that I declined the offer.
I think you made a wise choice. This car sounds like real trouble.

The right car will come along; keep looking.

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