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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:12 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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I suspect the next 5 will use a lot of carbon fiber like the next 7. Saving weight will be key to the next level of performance.

I also think V8 will be reserved only for the M5 in the next iteration and the 550i may be replaced with a tri turbo 6.
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  #27  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
I suspect the next 5 will use a lot of carbon fiber like the next 7. Saving weight will be key to the next level of performance.

I also think V8 will be reserved only for the M5 in the next iteration and the 550i may be replaced with a tri turbo 6.
Yeah, weight loss, and dynamics is about the only place left they can go, beyond getting into super car levels of hp.
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  #28  
Old 03-25-2012, 06:20 PM
gmblack3 gmblack3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kzang View Post
There was a reason why the pontiac aztek = fail.. lol
Another who has never experienced the GT=fail.
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  #29  
Old 03-25-2012, 06:36 PM
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I drove the new F30 this weekend. It was fully loaded, including speed limit information. (I want to try and retrofit this more than anything now - but after my experience with the ceramic controls debacle I'm probably going to pass.)

I came away very impressed. Very nice power in the N55. Smooth. I found the handling superior to the F10 (stock). The bells and whistles were also very much derivative of the F10, so it felt like I was in a shrunken version of my car.

We're in the market for another vehicle and I suspect this may be the model we select. I'm just waiting for BMW to offer some clarity on engines and whether a diesel will be expected, or xDrive.

In short I was really impressed.
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Last edited by wdimagineer; 03-25-2012 at 06:54 PM.
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  #30  
Old 03-25-2012, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
The F10 is not a scaled up version of the F30. The F30 has a different design and engineering philosophy.

It used to be said that a 5 was a big 3. Now it's a small 7. Having spent a decent amount of time with the F30, I agree with this whole heatedly.
I agree here. The F10 has strayed more away from the "3-Series" drive, and the new 3-Series seems to be much more focused in terms of BMW ideals. As far as look, IMO they look extremely similar, however the 3 looks ever so subtly "accented" differently from that same language: More cunning, aggressive, less smooth and elegant.

All in all, I feel like the F30 can practically compete in sales from the F10. Previously, during the E60 and E90 gens, those two cars looked and felt far more dissimilar. If I'm not mistaken, they weren't on shared chassis' either (?). IMO, where the F10 holds is biggest supremacy card over the F30 is in interior luxury and ambiance, as the F10 is practically a carbon copy interior of the F01's, while the F30 shares its theme with the 1-Series and smaller BMW's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason60050 View Post
I just can't believe how expensive the f30 is. I was at the local BMW dealer and they had one with a sticker of $57k. That is insane for a 335...for the price they are charging it better beat any competition out there!!!
Damn! Between this and the 6-Series pricing, BMW are getting in over their heads with prices. No wonder why they have the best profit margins in the business. BMW buyers are paying the biggest premium over the sum of the parts their cars consist of then either of their competitors! (Audi has second highest margins, and M-B is last).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmblack3 View Post
Another who has never experienced the GT=fail.
Man, GT guys are like the touchiest bunch, lol. I think the point is that they chose not to experience it.
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Last edited by K-A; 03-25-2012 at 06:42 PM.
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  #31  
Old 03-25-2012, 06:43 PM
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Is the steering electic?

If so, why can't BMW update the software in our F10s to give the same precise feeling?
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  #32  
Old 03-25-2012, 07:12 PM
gmblack3 gmblack3 is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post

Man, GT guys are like the touchiest bunch, lol. I think the point is that they chose not to experience it.
His choice.

I highly prefer paying $20k less for 7 series interior room and having something different.

I tried to talk my wife into a CTS-V wagon, once she drove the GT it was all over with. I think the interior in the CTS-V sedan is about the same as a F30.
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  #33  
Old 03-25-2012, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdimagineer View Post
I drove the new F30 this weekend. It was fully loaded, including speed limit information. (I want to try and retrofit this more than anything now - but after my experience with the ceramic controls debacle I'm probably going to pass.)

I came away very impressed. Very nice power in the N55. Smooth. I found the handling superior to the F10 (stock). The bells and whistles were also very much derivative of the F10, so it felt like I was in a shrunken version of my car.

We're in the market for another vehicle and I suspect this may be the model we select. I'm just waiting for BMW to offer some clarity on engines and whether a diesel will be expected, or xDrive.

In short I was really impressed.
Good to hear that. I was going to get an f10 next year, but the high raves given to the f30 by f10 owners has convinced me to get the f30 335 m sport.. In understand that the msport adds 30 horsepower as well
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  #34  
Old 03-25-2012, 08:25 PM
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A different perspective, if I may post mlai's review comparing the F30 with his modded F10 http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=654781

Sometimes, we may get carried away with mag reviews
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  #35  
Old 03-25-2012, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
A different perspective, if I may post mlai's review comparing the F30 with his modded F10 http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=654781

Sometimes, we may get carried away with mag reviews
Everything I gazed over in that Thread got upstaged by this....

"I test drove the 328i and finally bought a F10. F10 interior is way better!
and 700K+ for a 335i is quite pricey"


.... Holy SHEIT!!
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  #36  
Old 03-25-2012, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
It is pointless to make this argument unless you have actually driven both cars, and for decent periods of time. You can argue weights, sizes, equipment, price all you want but when you actually spend time behind the wheel, you will clearly see the outcomes of the engineering designs.

One thing I personally found interesting was that when I used to go from an E90 328 loaner to my F10 535, my 535 felt HUGE when I got back into it. It felt big, aloof and a bit bargy. By comparison, going from the F30 to the F10 did not produce such an immediate response.

However at the same time, there is no loss of immediacy when driving the F30. It is still nimble and light. Interesting.

I would like to drive an E90 and an F30 back to back.
I agree, magazine reviews or F10 owner reviews of the F30 are fun to read but F30 reviews from current E90 owners would be the most interesting IMO. Say what you want about the E90's look, size and finish but I don't know any keen driver who doesn't love how these cars drive. The M3 is so different from the other E90s that it's neither a good or fair reference to the F30s virtues. ( I haven't driven an F30 myself yet ).
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  #37  
Old 03-25-2012, 11:11 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Everything I gazed over in that Thread got upstaged by this....

"I test drove the 328i and finally bought a F10. F10 interior is way better!
and 700K+ for a 335i is quite pricey"


.... Holy SHEIT!!
That's in HK dollars, far far lower than the price here but parking charges are extremely high in HK.
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  #38  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:17 AM
kc1953 kc1953 is offline
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
That's in HK dollars, far far lower than the price here but parking charges are extremely high in HK.
Still, even in Yankee green backs, a loaded 335i is very pricey, compared to how much more car you get in a 535i comparably equipped. But it all depends on your tastes. For me, the 535i was the best combination of fun and luxury.
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  #39  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by PsychDoc1 View Post
I don't agree. I think, at this point, they are really all (i.e. 3/5/7) pretty much the same car in different sizes and with different levels of trim. Sure, if you nit pick you can isolate one or another characteristic and argue that that one characteristic renders one of the cars significantly different from the others but it's pretty obvious that they all share the same archetecture, design cues, suspension geometry, transmissions and engines. Hell, the N20 is just a 4 cylinder version of the N55.
The 3 series is the bench mark of the small luxury sedan segment. However, my friend, the 2012 A6 has everything over the 535xi. I test drove both cars and the E350 last year and I left the BMW and the MB dealer wondering who on earth would spend $6000+ for less of a car. The electric steering on the new BMW 5 series is horrible, the throttle lag is very pronounce and it looks way too much like the new 3 series.
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  #40  
Old 03-26-2012, 03:32 PM
kc1953 kc1953 is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
The 3 series is the bench mark of the small luxury sedan segment. However, my friend, the 2012 A6 has everything over the 535xi. I test drove both cars and the E350 last year and I left the BMW and the MB dealer wondering who on earth would spend $6000+ for less of a car. The electric steering on the new BMW 5 series is horrible, the throttle lag is very pronounce and it looks way too much like the new 3 series.
No doubt the A6 is a fine car. However, the choice of A6 or 535i depends entirely on subjective preferences. Qualify your statement with an "in my opinion", and there is no disagreement. Stated as an objective fact, well, you do not get my agreement. I too test drove both cars and the 535i was my choice. Did you buy the A6, X Men?
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  #41  
Old 03-26-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kc1953 View Post
No doubt the A6 is a fine car. However, the choice of A6 or 535i depends entirely on subjective preferences. Qualify your statement with an "in my opinion", and there is no disagreement. Stated as an objective fact, well, you do not get my agreement. I too test drove both cars and the 535i was my choice. Did you buy the A6, X Men?
I have a A6, my wife just bought a 3 series. In my opinion, those two luxury sport sedans are at the top of their segment right now. My post was based on magazine test numbers and my own test drives.
I was hoping the new 5 series would handle at least as well as the last gen. I was very disapointed after the test drive, they pretty much Americanized the 5 series, soft suspension, isolated steering and over 300 pounds heavier. Its a shame, the new 5 series actually looks much better than the old Bangle mess, too bad the new 5 series is actually going backwards as far as performance is concernd.
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  #42  
Old 03-26-2012, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I have a A6, my wife just bought a 3 series. In my opinion, those two luxury sport sedans are at the top of their segment right now. My post was based on magazine test numbers and my own test drives.
I was hoping the new 5 series would handle at least as well as the last gen. I was very disapointed after the test drive, they pretty much Americanized the 5 series, soft suspension, isolated steering and over 300 pounds heavier. Its a shame, the new 5 series actually looks much better than the old Bangle mess, too bad the new 5 series is actually going backwards as far as performance is concernd.
I would say each of us is happy with our choice of autos. We each had the opportunity to buy an A6 or a 535i, and we each made our choice. The 535i disappointed you but did not disappoint me.
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  #43  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
the new 5 series actually looks much better than the old Bangle mess
Bangle actually helmed over the design of the F10 as he did the E60 (and of course the F01, which was his teams first implementation of the design language that the F10 mirrors).
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  #44  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
The 3 series is the bench mark of the small luxury sedan segment. However, my friend, the 2012 A6 has everything over the 535xi. I test drove both cars and the E350 last year and I left the BMW and the MB dealer wondering who on earth would spend $6000+ for less of a car. The electric steering on the new BMW 5 series is horrible, the throttle lag is very pronounce and it looks way too much like the new 3 series.
And the electric steering on the Audi is worse, the throttle pedal is dangerously close to the brake pedal and it looks WAY too much like an A4.

Oh, and the interior quality sucks. The LED headlight eyebrows are gimmicky and overplayed and the dealer network blows.
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  #45  
Old 03-26-2012, 08:11 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I have a A6,
Which model and year do you have?
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  #46  
Old 03-27-2012, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
And the electric steering on the Audi is worse, the throttle pedal is dangerously close to the brake pedal and it looks WAY too much like an A4.

Oh, and the interior quality sucks. The LED headlight eyebrows are gimmicky and overplayed and the dealer network blows.
The electric steering on the A6 tighten up very nicely on the highway, it also have more feedback when in dynamic mode than the 535xi. The throttle and the brake pedal distance is fine, unless you wear size 16 shoes. The 5 series looks much more like the new 3 series than the A6 does the A4. Pretty much all the magazine agree that the A6's interior blows away the 5 series'. Here in MA, there are as many Audi dealer as the BMW dealer. The A6 LED head lights are very much functional and not gimmicky, BMW is way behind in LED lighting technologies. The LED DRL on the A6 is not a eyebrow, the LED DRL is under the headlights, not over it. That last statment tells me how much you know about the new A6.

Last edited by The X Men; 03-27-2012 at 05:58 PM.
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  #47  
Old 03-27-2012, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Which model and year do you have?
I have a 2012 A6 prestige with full LED headlights.
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  #48  
Old 03-27-2012, 06:07 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
The electric steering on the A6 tighten up very nicely on the highway, it also have more feedback when in dynamic mode than the 535xi. The throttle and the brake pedal distance is fine, unless you wear size 16 shoes. The 5 series looks much more like the new 3 series than the A6 does the A4. Pretty much all the magazine agree that the A6's interior blows away the 5 series'. Here in MA, there are as many Audi dealer as the BMW dealer. The A6 LED head lights are very much functional and not gimmicky, BMW is way behind in LED lighting technologies. The LED DRL on the A6 is not a eyebrow, the LED DRL is under the headlights, not over it. That last statment tells me how much you know about the new A6.
Personally I don't give a flying fig what any magazines say about the interior, they're all bought and paid off by the manufacturers.

My point was that your opinion is yours and not necessarily reflective of actual reality. You have your opinion, I have mine. And actually I know quite a bit about the A6. I cross shopped both it and the A7 when I bought my 535. In both cars, my feet snagged on the pedals. I don't wear 16's, just 13's. Oh, and would you rather me call the LED's eye liner than an eyebrow? LOL.

Thanks for taking the bait. Next time you log onto a BMW board slamming the car, don't expect less. Expect worse. You're entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't give you the right to slam others for theirs.
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  #49  
Old 03-27-2012, 06:23 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Personally I don't give a flying fig what any magazines say about the interior, they're all bought and paid off by the manufacturers.

My point was that your opinion is yours and not necessarily reflective of actual reality. You have your opinion, I have mine. And actually I know quite a bit about the A6. I cross shopped both it and the A7 when I bought my 535. In both cars, my feet snagged on the pedals. I don't wear 16's, just 13's. Oh, and would you rather me call the LED's eye liner than an eyebrow? LOL.

Thanks for taking the bait. Next time you log onto a BMW board slamming the car, don't expect less. Expect worse. You're entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't give you the right to slam others for theirs.
Hear hear!
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  #50  
Old 03-27-2012, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
The 3 series is the bench mark of the small luxury sedan segment. However, my friend, the 2012 A6 has everything over the 535xi. I test drove both cars and the E350 last year and I left the BMW and the MB dealer wondering who on earth would spend $6000+ for less of a car. The electric steering on the new BMW 5 series is horrible, the throttle lag is very pronounce and it looks way too much like the new 3 series.
Uh, the 535xi has hydraulic steering. Are you sure you drove one?

The throttle lag on the 535 has been hit or miss on particular cars, just like the varied acceleration performance on particular A6s.

BTW, as a former A6 owner, Audi lost me as customer with their hideously cheap looking pop-up NAV screen. You might as well stick a Garmin on the windshield. It's not a look that belongs in an A6 or an A8.
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