Motor Trend: F30 Absolutely Annihilates Every Potential Competitor

Guys - prime opportunity here to deploy your ignore function.

Originally Posted by The X Men

I have a 2012 A6 prestige with full LED headlights.

I came close to buying that car, but in the end decided on the bimmer. But the A6 is an outstanding car.

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot

Guys - prime opportunity here to deploy your ignore function.

It is on.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

Uh, the 535xi has hydraulic steering. Are you sure you drove one?

The throttle lag on the 535 has been hit or miss on particular cars, just like the varied acceleration performance on particular A6s.

BTW, as a former A6 owner, Audi lost me as customer with their hideously cheap looking pop-up NAV screen. You might as well stick a Garmin on the windshield. It's not a look that belongs in an A6 or an A8.

Here is a quote from a car and driver article:

"Be it the V-8–powered 550i automatic or manual, the 535i automatic or manual, or the entry-level 528i, all members of the 5-series family are generally swift, cushy cruisers, with a competent chassis that connects all the dots, with one exception: the numb and artificially heavy electrically assisted power steering. Like the flimsy seats in the Corvette, this is something we'll continue to rant about until it's fixed. It is that bad, and the xDrive model's steering is no different."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-xdrive-review

The f10's steering is a big disappointment compare to the last gen. As far as I know, there is no complain of any type of throttle lag on any of the A6 forum. Speaking of pop up screens, the wife and I were going to buy a 2012 3 series until we realized that the pop up screen doesn't retract, that was the deal breaker for us. We ended up with the 2011 3 series. The steering on the 2011 feel much better than the new 3 series but even the new 3 series' steering is better than the F10's. Sorry if you guys don't agree with my opinion, but my opinion also mirrors most of the professional reviews out there.

There are 3 things that belongs to another man that one should never criticized about, their wife, their dog and their car. I apologize if I offended any 5 series owners here in this forum. It was not my intention, my intention was to point out that the 5 series and the 3 series are two totally different car. The F10 actually drives and feel more like the 7 series than the E9X, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Originally Posted by The X Men

Here is a quote from a car and driver article:

"Be it the V-8–powered 550i automatic or manual, the 535i automatic or manual, or the entry-level 528i, all members of the 5-series family are generally swift, cushy cruisers, with a competent chassis that connects all the dots, with one exception: the numb and artificially heavy electrically assisted power steering. Like the flimsy seats in the Corvette, this is something we'll continue to rant about until it's fixed. It is that bad, and the xDrive model's steering is no different."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-xdrive-review

The f10's steering is a big disappointment compare to the last gen. As far as I know, there is no complain of any type of throttle lag on any of the A6 forum. Speaking of pop up screens, the wife and I were going to buy a 2012 3 series until we realized that the pop up screen doesn't retract, that was the deal breaker for us. We ended up with the 2011 3 series. The steering on the 2011 feel much better than the new 3 series but even the new 3 series' steering is better than the F10's. Sorry if you guys don't agree with my opinion, but my opinion also mirrors most of the professional reviews out there.

There are 3 things that belongs to another man that one should never criticized about, their wife, their dog and their car. I apologize if I offended any 5 series owners here in this forum. It was not my intention, my intention was to point out that the 5 series and the 3 series are two totally different car. The F10 actually drives and feel more like the 7 series than the E9X, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

These magazine reviews are based on just a select few people with opinions like any of us...they all differ; it's not the word of God or anything.

Just like going to a movie; there have been some horrible reviews of movies that I personally disagreed with and liked. I choose not to base my opinion on something that someone else says...let alone the crowd.

This kinda reminds me of all the auto start/stop complaints...I totally don't mind it.

Here we go again...

A6 and the F10 are both fine cars. Personally I prefer the Audi, but that doesn't mean the F10 is junk. They're both fantastic cars.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

the dealer network blows.

I have more Audi dealers in the Boston area than BMW dealers, where I live.

Even back in Maine where I got my BMW, there are 3 Audi dealers in the state, whereas 1 BMW dealer

Needless to say, I don't hate either. I look forward to owning many cars from both makers in the future.

Originally Posted by The X Men

Here is a quote from a car and driver article:

"Be it the V-8–powered 550i automatic or manual, the 535i automatic or manual, or the entry-level 528i, all members of the 5-series family are generally swift, cushy cruisers, with a competent chassis that connects all the dots, with one exception: the numb and artificially heavy electrically assisted power steering. Like the flimsy seats in the Corvette, this is something we'll continue to rant about until it's fixed. It is that bad, and the xDrive model's steering is no different."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-xdrive-review

The f10's steering is a big disappointment compare to the last gen. As far as I know, there is no complain of any type of throttle lag on any of the A6 forum. Speaking of pop up screens, the wife and I were going to buy a 2012 3 series until we realized that the pop up screen doesn't retract, that was the deal breaker for us. We ended up with the 2011 3 series. The steering on the 2011 feel much better than the new 3 series but even the new 3 series' steering is better than the F10's. Sorry if you guys don't agree with my opinion, but my opinion also mirrors most of the professional reviews out there.

There are 3 things that belongs to another man that one should never criticized about, their wife, their dog and their car. I apologize if I offended any 5 series owners here in this forum. It was not my intention, my intention was to point out that the 5 series and the 3 series are two totally different car. The F10 actually drives and feel more like the 7 series than the E9X, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Plain and simple, C&D is wrong. The 535xi has hydraulic steering and the BMW replacement catalog only has hydraulic steering replacement parts for the 535xi, which has been widely recognized as having more feel than the EPS. My hydraulic steering is lighter than my E90, but it provides plenty of feedback.

I do agree on the F30 NAV is also hideous. The F12 NAV is more tolerable, but it isn't all that good looking either. The F01 & F10 are the clear winners here.

Finally, I made no claim of throttle lag, but the wide variation in the tested acceleration performance on the A6.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

Plain and simple, C&D is wrong. The 535xi has hydraulic steering and the BMW replacement catalog only has hydraulic steering replacement parts for the 535xi, which has been widely recognized as having more feel than the EPS. My hydraulic steering is lighter than my E90, but it provides plenty of feedback.

Look, maybe you are right about the 535xi steering, but I feel that the steering on the last gen 535xi is much better than the 2012 335xi I just test drove. I was merely responding the OP's assertion that the new 5 series perform as well as the 3 series. In my opinion, the new 5 series drives more like a 7 series than the 3 series. It’s not just the steering either, it’s the whole package. BMW have design the new 5 series to be more of a highway cruiser than a sport sedan. It’s not a bad thing if that is what you are looking for in a car, but personally, I think BMW is making a mistake by swaying away from its bread and butter, which is performance.

Read this, and you will understand why I no longer trust any review that any car "glossy" publishes.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...e/#more-416377

Car and Driver used to rank BMW's number one in every single comparo. About 3 years ago, Audi started winning and have been on a roll since.

Coincidence? I doubt it.

I have said before, I wouldn't say one bad thing about anyone who buys an A6. It is a great car, and has it's plusses and minuses just like the BMW. How those plusses and minuses line up with your personal view set will determine which car you end up with.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Read this, and you will understand why I no longer trust any review that any car "glossy" publishes.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...e/#more-416377

Car and Driver used to rank BMW's number one in every single comparo. About 3 years ago, Audi started winning and have been on a roll since.

Coincidence? I doubt it.

I have said before, I wouldn't say one bad thing about anyone who buys an A6. It is a great car, and has it's plusses and minuses just like the BMW. How those plusses and minuses line up with your personal view set will determine which car you end up with.

Top Gear is of course an exception to this since it is government funded media.

They love the F10. No coincidence.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Car and Driver used to rank BMW's number one in every single comparo. About 3 years ago, Audi started winning and have been on a roll since.

Coincidence? I doubt it.

I have said before, I wouldn't say one bad thing about anyone who buys an A6. It is a great car, and has it's plusses and minuses just like the BMW. How those plusses and minuses line up with your personal view set will determine which car you end up with.

I think Audi has been on a roll the last 6 to 7 years, its no coincidence, every gen of their new design have been vastly improved over the last. That might explain why car magazine such as C&D have given Audi such good reviews.
I think A6 and the 5 series is the segment leaders in their class, one cannot go wrong with either car. The 5 series is bit more of a cruiser and the A6 is a bit more sporty. The 5 series has a softer and more comfortable ride and it is a bit quieter than the A6. The A6 is bit more Agile, its quick off the line and the steering feels a bit better. Its almost ironic that the A6 and the 5 series have a bit of role reverval going on here with their lastest deisgns.

Originally Posted by The X Men

I think BMW is making a mistake by swaying away from its bread and butter, which is performance.

When has BMW been about performance? Seriously!

BMW has been all about mastering compromise, from ride, handling, power, expression, ... it's about driving, day to day. Some cars are sportier, some or more luxurious, but other than the M's when have BMW's been about performance?

Now I'd argue that you are absolutely reversed in your position, all you have to do is look at newer M's and you'll see that BMW is taking performance much more seriously and within the rest of the lineup giving a much broader range of driving experiences.

If you don't like the 5, fine, go whine elsewhere or choose a different car (BMW or not) that's more to your liking, but if you ever get a chance to drive the new M5 (or M6) you'll find that there is more performance in BMW now. But it's never been the bread and butter of BMW.

Originally Posted by The X Men;6733615... but [I

I feel[/I] that the steering on the last gen 535xi is much better than the 2012 335xi I just test drove. ... In my opinion, the new 5 series drives more like a 7 series than the 3 series. It’s not just the steering either, it’s the whole package. BMW have design the new 5 series to be more of a highway cruiser than a sport sedan. It’s not a bad thing if that is what you are looking for in a car, but personally, I think BMW is making a mistake by swaying away from its bread and butter, which is performance.

I respectfully disagree with your view. I owned an '08 550i and now own a '12 550i (and a Porsche and a Spec Miata) and (as a HPDE driving instructor with extensive experience in high performance cars at speed) I can honestly state that my '12 550i handles amazingly well. My initial impression was less rosy as it took me some time behind the wheel to adjust to its handling. The steering is different from my prior e60, but not particularly worse or better... just different. The steering in my F10 provides good feedback, responds accurately to driver inputs and is not overly assisted as was the steering in my e46 330Ci some years back. My only major complaint with this car is that BMW discontinued the adjustable side bolsters in the F10 so you really have to brace yourself when taking tighter corners at a high rate of speed (which this car does quite well).

In summary, while my prior '08 550i handled differently from this car, it did not necessarily handle better. And, just because something is different does not mean it is better or worse. Also, sometimes it takes a little time to appreciate something that is different. My $.02.

Originally Posted by mdstx330ci

I respectfully disagree with your view. I owned an '08 550i and now own a '12 550i (and a Porsche and a Spec Miata) and (as a HPDE driving instructor with extensive experience in high performance cars at speed) I can honestly state that my '12 550i handles amazingly well. My initial impression was less rosy as it took me some time behind the wheel to adjust to its handling. The steering is different from my prior e60, but not particularly worse or better... just different. The steering in my F10 provides good feedback, responds accurately to driver inputs and is not overly assisted as was the steering in my e46 330Ci some years back. My only major complaint with this car is that BMW discontinued the adjustable side bolsters in the F10 so you really have to brace yourself when taking tighter corners at a high rate of speed (which this car does quite well).

In summary, while my prior '08 550i handled differently from this car, it did not necessarily handle better. And, just because something is different does not mean it is better or worse. Also, sometimes it takes a little time to appreciate something that is different. My $.02.

I agree entirely. I have owned in sucession a 540i sport, E39 M5, 650i sport, and 550i xDrive. My F10 with xDrive with DDC and ARS and decent summer tires actually handles better than the prior cars even though it feels more like a 7 series. I would like to see a direct comparison test of the RWD drive versions of these cars with the F10 properly equipped with ARS, DDC, IAS, and decent performance tires. I think the F10 would blow the other cars off completely on a road course.

Originally Posted by The X Men

I think BMW is making a mistake by swaying away from its bread and butter, which is performance.

Please, define performance.

Originally Posted by geo3515

Please, define performance.

If you consider the major players in the luxury car segment, its BMW. Mercedes, Audi and Lexus. Out of those 4 big hitters, BMW have always been the sportiest of the 4. While the 3 series and the 7 series are still the sportiest when compare to its counterpart, the 5 series have fallen behind the A6 and the GS350. While I still think that the 5 series is a comfortable and well built car, its design mission has certainly changed.

Originally Posted by The X Men

, the 5 series have fallen behind the A6 and the GS350. While I still think that the 5 series is a comfortable and well built car, its design mission has certainly changed.

Oh, come on. Audi and Lexus do not even offer V8 option in this segment.

Originally Posted by The X Men

If you consider the major players in the luxury car segment, its BMW. Mercedes, Audi and Lexus. Out of those 4 big hitters, BMW have always been the sportiest of the 4. While the 3 series and the 7 series are still the sportiest when compare to its counterpart, the 5 series have fallen behind the A6 and the GS350. While I still think that the 5 series is a comfortable and well built car, its design mission has certainly changed.

So now we're only concerned about the luxury car segment?

I thought we were talking about performance?

You're lost in the marketing hype.

Marketing hype?
Audi A6's.
Bashing the 5 series on this forum?
XXX VAG driven commercial posting.
Come on guys let it go.
These FWD overpowered platformed cars are also German built.
Enough said about compairing them to Bimmers.
Big chance my next car puchase will be an F30 though.
Very nice car, hate the formula thing how to put hem together, sport, luxe, contempary...
Overtime that will fade away I hope...

Originally Posted by geo3515

Oh, come on. Audi and Lexus do not even offer V8 option in this segment.

The Audi S6 has a twin-turbocharged 4.0-liter TFSI V-8 engine. If you want to talk about high performance, Audi has the R8 and Lexus has the LFA, Mercedes has the SLS AMG, where is BMW's counterpart for those three car?

Originally Posted by The X Men

The Audi S6 has a twin-turbocharged 4.0-liter TFSI V-8 engine. If you want to talk about high performance, Audi has the R8 and Lexus has the LFA, Mercedes has the SLS AMG, where is BMW's counterpart for those three car?

Well, there is F10 M5. And why are you bringing R8 and LFA to the discussion? They do not belong to the 5-series segment.

Originally Posted by geo3515

Well, there is F10 M5. And why are you bringing R8 and LFA to the discussion? They do not belong to the 5-series segment.

The Audi RS6 will be the M5's direct competitor. I bought up those 2 cars as an example as to what Audi and Lexus have to offer as far as performance is concerned.
All I am say is that BMW Americanized the F10 a bit and I think the F30 as well, a bit softer and a bit more isolated.

Originally Posted by The X Men

The Audi S6 has a twin-turbocharged 4.0-liter TFSI V-8 engine. If you want to talk about high performance, Audi has the R8 and Lexus has the LFA, Mercedes has the SLS AMG, where is BMW's counterpart for those three car?

The Audi A6 is similar to the 535i, the Audi S6 competes with the 550i. Here's a quick quote from the review of the S6 on Edmund's:

"The Audi S6 is a high-performance version of the A6 sedan powered by a Lamborghini-sourced 5.2-liter V10. While slightly revised and detuned, it still produces 425 hp and 398 pound-feet of torque. A six-speed automatic and a 40/60 rear-biased Quattro all-wheel-drive system are standard. Despite this impressive-sounding pedigree, the S6 is unfortunately disappointing. Audi claims a 0-60-mph time in the low 5-second range, though in our testing we did no better than 5.7 seconds. That's slower than the supercharged V6-powered A6 3.0T, let alone its hard-core competitors from BMW, Jaguar and Mercedes-Benz."

The 550i has 450 ft lbs of torque compared to the S6 with only 398. The 550i is much faster 0-60. The 550i is simply way more car than the S6 and the S6 starts at around $75,000 which is about 10 grand more than a 550i xDrive.

So, the real question is where is Audi's competetor to the F10 M5 which has more than 100 more hp and 150 more ft-lbs of torque than the S6. BMW is way ahead of Audi in this class of car. We'll have to wait and see how the RS6 stacks up against the M5. In the meantime the 550i xDrive will blow the socks off an S6.

Originally Posted by The X Men

The Audi S6 has a twin-turbocharged 4.0-liter TFSI V-8 engine. If you want to talk about high performance, Audi has the R8 and Lexus has the LFA, Mercedes has the SLS AMG, where is BMW's counterpart for those three car?

lol and it took how long for Audi to get the r8 right?

Those first few attempts were a joke until the 5 liter came out.