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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:18 AM
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MachtSchnell MachtSchnell is offline
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E60 535 rough idle misfire only when cold

I had been traveling for a week and when I got back is was a cold evening about 40 degrees. I got into my car and started it up, idled rough and and you could feel cyclinder not hitting every once and awhile, then the CEL came on with no message in iDrive. I turned the car off and restarted after a few minutes of idling. The CEL stayed on but the car was fine. I drove it home, put it in the garage and got up saturday morning to go and start it to see what happens. Its about 40 degrees and again the same thing, after a idling for a few minutes I turn it off and back on the issue goes away. I take it to the Indy Monday morning and leave it with him, he duplicates it. I can't remember what the exact codes he pulled but there were 3, HPFP, Bank of cylinders misfiring, and then a thermastat stuck open on radiator system. He tells me to take it to dealer as it looks to be the HPFP (which I have the latest.) So I call BMW assist to pick up the car and take it to the dealer (70K miles on the car but 44 months in service so getting monies worth.

This is was the dealer notes to check

C/S Engine Malfunction - Running rough - throwing codes - cylinders knocking.

This what they found (the tempratures warmed drastically lows were now in the 60's and highs in the 70's.

Perf Short test found misfire faults that were not present at this time. Fault in thermostat present jammed open. cleared faults and test drove vehicle several times. let vehicle sit overnight and test drove vehicle and vehicle ran nomal.

So I get the car, and take it to the indy to have thermostat changed and save $160. Everything seems fine. Tempratures are warm, 60's at night high 70's in the day. Last week a cooler morning in low 50's have the issue restart the car the CEL goes way and everything is fine until this morning, 49 is the low I go to take my son to school and the same problem is back, CEL stays on when restarting the car. I am going to take back to indy later today, but suppose to be almost 80.

Issue only happens when its cold outside. (cold by Georgia standards)

Any ideas. Replace a cracked pvc recently replaced the spark plugs about 2 months ago or so.
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  #2  
Old 03-26-2012, 08:44 AM
SoLucky SoLucky is offline
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Originally Posted by MachtSchnell View Post
Any ideas. Replace a cracked pvc recently replaced the spark plugs about 2 months ago or so.
Only thing I can come up with is coils. Ask your indy to test them.
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:40 AM
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Oceans10 Oceans10 is offline
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+1 on coils. You can replace them yourself, not a bad idea given the mileage on the car. Plus as I recall you are tuned. The tuned 3 series guys have a lot of issues with their coils. BMW replaced mine with the latest HPFP last April, so they must have felt this was prudent policy.

I don't think outside temps have anything to do with your problem. If you can get your hands on the codes, you can look them up and see excatly where the issues emanate from. They can identify a Specific cylinder misfire for example. You could also have a bad sparkplug even though they are new. I would check them and maybe swap banks. That could be another way to diagnose and eliminate failure points.

Coils run around $40 each. http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/200...tion_coil.html I don't know which are best, but these should work.
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:40 PM
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MachtSchnell MachtSchnell is offline
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Replaced the coils and same problem. Car is sitting with the Indy. All cylinders registered a mis fire, low fuel on one misfire, hpfp issue. And is smoking a greyish blueish color. They are going to clear the codes and start it in the morning to see what codes are throwing in what order. Pretty bummed can't wait to get her back to normal.
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:49 PM
tchavera tchavera is offline
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bad injector
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:58 PM
nitsewj nitsewj is offline
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Have your Indy reset your Valvetronics and retrain this should take care of your rough idle.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:30 PM
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Fuel related??
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:51 PM
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It's been going on for sometime so 10 plus tanks of gas. My indy thinks its the hpfp and I am on the latest. Indy said take it to dealer for warranty work. He gave me a stack of information to go with it. SA at the dealer is pretty good and took everything, put me in a new 528 and sent me on my way with a I will call you tomorrow. So hope to know more soon.
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  #9  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:55 PM
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I bet it is either injectors or HPFP. But at least you are under warranty and will have it covered. I have had zero issues with both of mine. Been a full year now and both are tuned!
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  #10  
Old 04-19-2012, 06:19 PM
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MachtSchnell MachtSchnell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceans10 View Post
I bet it is either injectors or HPFP. But at least you are under warranty and will have it covered. I have had zero issues with both of mine. Been a full year now and both are tuned!
I am in warranty to hpfp but nothing else. I just hit 75k miles. I have put 37k miles on car in past 18 months.

I am just ready to get it fixed. I haven't had the tune in for 4 months. I miss it so bad...
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  #11  
Old 04-19-2012, 08:58 PM
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Could be carbon on the intake valves

I had a similar rough idle, but only when cold. The dealer eventually traced it down to carbon build-up on the intake valves. This is a common problem on the 535xi, as it is direct-injected, so the fuel and fuel additives never touch the intake valves to clean off the oil blow-by and drip-down from the valves, so it cakes on the valves and hardens.

The dealer removed the intake manifolds, blasted off the carbon (with crushed walnuts in a media blaster).

The idle is not only perfect now, but the throttle is more responsive, and I am getting 4-5 mpg better gas mileage. -- Pretty dramatic.

My car had 36k miles when this was done. This certainly a design flaw, and this media blasting is now a regular service item on the direct-injected cars. If your car has more than 30k miles, I would have them look at the intake valves.
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:15 AM
HPIA4v2 HPIA4v2 is offline
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Originally Posted by mostroad View Post
I had a similar rough idle, but only when cold. The dealer eventually traced it down to carbon build-up on the intake valves. This is a common problem on the 535xi, as it is direct-injected, so the fuel and fuel additives never touch the intake valves to clean off the oil blow-by and drip-down from the valves, so it cakes on the valves and hardens.

The dealer removed the intake manifolds, blasted off the carbon (with crushed walnuts in a media blaster).

The idle is not only perfect now, but the throttle is more responsive, and I am getting 4-5 mpg better gas mileage. -- Pretty dramatic.

My car had 36k miles when this was done. This certainly a design flaw, and this media blasting is now a regular service item on the direct-injected cars. If your car has more than 30k miles, I would have them look at the intake valves.
Wow, @36K when you got it done!

My car is @35K, no rough cold idle but cold crank/start is not right away ala N55 on my 335i. Though if I go somewhere, park then restart the engine, it's crank on the first turn of the starter (right away). Maybe I need to take off the intake to see in there.
BTW, my SA told me BMWNA told dealer to charge $375 for walnut blasting (used to be $800) so it's not that bad if you need to do it once every 35-40Kmiles.
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  #13  
Old 04-22-2012, 07:51 PM
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Nube1kenobi Nube1kenobi is offline
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Originally Posted by HPIA4v2 View Post
Wow, @36K when you got it done!

My car is @35K, no rough cold idle but cold crank/start is not right away ala N55 on my 335i. Though if I go somewhere, park then restart the engine, it's crank on the first turn of the starter (right away). Maybe I need to take off the intake to see in there.
BTW, my SA told me BMWNA told dealer to charge $375 for walnut blasting (used to be $800) so it's not that bad if you need to do it once every 35-40Kmiles.
Is this with Bellevue or Seattle? If it costs that low, I may just have them do it even though I am deathly afraid for them to get near my engine bay...
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:11 PM
HPIA4v2 HPIA4v2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nube1kenobi View Post
Is this with Bellevue or Seattle? If it costs that low, I may just have them do it even though I am deathly afraid for them to get near my engine bay...
That's what Bellevue SA told me.
I may check with Seattle BMW next. I heard some dealers use Chemical instead walnut blasting, the result is not as good.

I want walnut blasting cause I feel my car is slugish now, Not sure I can check timing on all cylinders with BT tools to see if DME sense knocking then retard the timing.

Last edited by HPIA4v2; 04-22-2012 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:30 AM
Munich77 Munich77 is offline
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$375 seems a bit cheap to me for the process. To get it done they have to take off the head from the engine. Now sure how long that would take but at the rates for mechanics I suspect at least $200-300 for the removal alone.
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  #16  
Old 04-23-2012, 06:14 AM
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I don't believe they remove the head. From what I've been told and supported by others here that have had it done, they only remove the intake manifold. Of course, I could be wrong...
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:38 AM
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$375 seems a bit cheap to me for the process. To get it done they have to take off the head from the engine. Now sure how long that would take but at the rates for mechanics I suspect at least $200-300 for the removal alone.
That is incorrect. There is a tool/attachment that is used to blast the intake valves without removing the head, only the intake manifold needs to be removed. The tool hooks up to a shop vac and inserts into the intake valve "channel". There is a small hole in the tool that allows the walnut blaster nozzle to insert and move up, down and around to reach different areas of the intake.

$375 does seems low though.
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:39 AM
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Oceans10 Oceans10 is offline
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The Nube is rarely wrong. It's just the intake cover and you close the valves off, then have the machine blast shells. Or you use a cleaning liquid to dissolve the deposits and then use a wire brush, suck out the crud with a wet vac. People also get gun cleaning fluid and brushes at Walmart for a cheap DIY.

Oops, the Xman beat me to it!
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:17 PM
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Update

The car is done. They had to put in a new hpfp and a low pressure fuel sensor I believe. I will look at the invoice when I get home tomorrow and post it up.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:18 PM
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Assume most is covered by BMW? Anything HPFP related anyway.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:10 PM
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Well the fix lasted a day or two, well I don't think it was ever fixed. Was gone for 4 days and it sat at airport, started up fine. Drove to florida for a week of meetings and the morning of the last day went out and started her up, got the rough idle. It sat at the home for 2 days and when starting it u Monday morning, it was smoking like an old bus. Took the car back to the dealer yesterday. When I got within a mile the check engine light turned off, WTF. They pulled the codes showing the misfires. Living with the problem for a bit allows me to pick up on a few new things. The longer the car sits the worse the problem. If I drive it 10 minutes the blue smoke goes away and the car acts fine. I am thinking oil is leaking into the heads somewhere and causing the misfires and the smoke. Once the oil burns off everything is fine. I did notice a noise under acceleration kind of like a tapping noise. it's not present at idle. SA called today saying it didn't do it this morning so the tech and Forman are going to look at it again tomorrow if nothing they are going to let it sit over the weekend and try Monday morning. In the mean time I am rolling in a 2012 X3. Gutless and not as nice of an interior as the 2012 528 I had last time. Thanks for listening.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:03 PM
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Oceans10 Oceans10 is offline
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Sorry to hear about these continuing gremlin. I bet it just sucks not having it all ironed out.
Just keep pestering BMW until they solve it for good.
You may be on to something with the suspicion of an oil leak. Maybe they need to take the header off and check the seal, redo it.
That would explain the smoke and the stuttering.
This is the sort of situation you need BMW for, there must be someone who can trace this down to the source and fix it.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:29 PM
06530IDAN 06530IDAN is offline
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Have they done a cylinder leak test on it? Check out link:
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:51 PM
06530IDAN 06530IDAN is offline
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Here is another good link:
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Old 05-18-2012, 11:05 AM
rijc99 rijc99 is offline
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Valve stem seals?
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