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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 03-29-2012, 07:31 PM
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C&D Comparo review

Just got a new Car and Driver in the mail. The 328i wins the comparo but here are a couple noteworthy quotes:

Regarding the 2nd place Audi A4 2.0T Quattro: "Could the previous 3-series have beaten this Audi? Probably. But we'd wager that the old 3-series might also have beaten the new 3-series."

"Low-rolling-resistance rubber is designed to keep rolling, which is why the 328i stopped from 70 mph in a full-size-SUV-like 191 feet." (um, WOW!!)

"Our beef is that the primary communication between driver and road-the steering-is now pleading the Fifth. Please, BMW, remedy this fault."
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  #2  
Old 03-29-2012, 07:44 PM
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"But we'd wager that the old 3-series might also have beaten the new 3-series."
...reinforcing my decision to buy the extended warranty and keep the old wagon for a few more years.
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  #3  
Old 03-29-2012, 07:54 PM
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If they are using those good year or pirelli tires then thats a fail
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:00 PM
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Any time a car gets bigger C&D whines about it. They should be happy a 6MT is even still available on the damn thing... and considering that the outgoing 2011 car had less power, less torque, weighed more, etc, it's almost impossible that it would have beaten the new one.

Oh ya, electric steering, that's sure to piss them off too.
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  #5  
Old 03-29-2012, 09:52 PM
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Just got a new Car and Driver in the mail...
Is that the April 2012 issue of Car and Driver?
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  #6  
Old 03-29-2012, 10:41 PM
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Is that the April 2012 issue of Car and Driver?
The May issue.
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  #7  
Old 03-30-2012, 06:23 AM
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It doesn't seem very bright of BMW to keep rolling out these test cars to the magazines with crummy tires.
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  #8  
Old 03-30-2012, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Any time a car gets bigger C&D whines about it. They should be happy a 6MT is even still available on the damn thing... and considering that the outgoing 2011 car had less power, less torque, weighed more, etc, it's almost impossible that it would have beaten the new one.

Oh ya, electric steering, that's sure to piss them off too.
Hmmm, C&D had no problem when the A4, IS350 and the C-class got bigger. BMW does need to work on their electric steering, steering and handling is BMW's bread and butter, the new electric steering just doesnt feel as good as the E90's steering.

Last edited by The X Men; 03-30-2012 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Any time a car gets bigger C&D whines about it. They should be happy a 6MT is even still available on the damn thing... and considering that the outgoing 2011 car had less power, less torque, weighed more, etc, it's almost impossible that it would have beaten the new one.

Oh ya, electric steering, that's sure to piss them off too.
I like C/D because they tell it how it is, unlike other car magazines.
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  #10  
Old 03-30-2012, 07:34 AM
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I used to be an avid reader of C&D and have about 10 years of rags sitting in my basement. However, increasingly I am just annoyed reading their reviews. Perhaps it is because what is important to them is less important to me (handling at a racetrack circuit) and what is completely irrelevant to them (interior comfort, features) are increasingly important to me.

But you do have a valid point which is that the E90 was considered to have the best steering setup of any sedan in any class.

Last edited by voip-ninja; 03-30-2012 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:27 AM
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They just repeat talking points. Paying attention to reviews is waste of time, they are written by jaded writers who keep writing the same stuff over and over.
We may talk mucho about 0-60 numbers etc etc, in real world majority of people do not care.

Therefore, go to dealership and test drive the thing if you like it you buy it if you do not you do then move on.

Form your own opinion with information from the reviews (if you think they provide value) but do not rely on them as 100% source of know it all.

I will give you the best example about the fact that reviewers out of touch with real world. This forum is full of posts of people asking for opinion/reviews on different packages and how technology works, etc, etc.

Every single review I have read so far on F30 did not do a dicent coverage of those areas and those which did (CNET) where full of errors.
I would trust opinions and reviews of people on this forum because after driving my F30 for over a month by opinion/review matches everybody else.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
I used to be an avid reader of C&D and have about 10 years of rags sitting in my basement. However, increasingly I am just annoyed reading their reviews. Perhaps it is because what is important to them is less important to me (handling at a racetrack circuit) and what is completely irrelevant to them (interior comfort, features) are increasingly important to me.
If you want reviews on interior comfort or features, you need to read consumer report. I dont know about you, I bought my BMW because of its performance. If I want interior comfort or features, there are other cars that lost less and they are better in those areas than BMW.
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  #13  
Old 03-30-2012, 09:06 AM
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Whatever works for you. If performance was all you cared about you should have bought a Subaru WRX or a Mitsubishi Evo.
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  #14  
Old 03-30-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Any time a car gets bigger C&D whines about it. They should be happy a 6MT is even still available on the damn thing... and considering that the outgoing 2011 car had less power, less torque, weighed more, etc, it's almost impossible that it would have beaten the new one.

Oh ya, electric steering, that's sure to piss them off too.
That's a cheap shot. Did you even read the article? Car and Driver is not the only enthusiast magazine (or online publication) who decries the fact that cars get bigger and heavier every model change, pretty much all of them do, along with many, many enthusiasts. Electrical steering is also pissing off many automotive journalists and enthusiasts because, from everything I've read, it significantly numbed the steering in the current 5 Series and they were dreading that the unique steering feel and feedback of the 3 Series would be gone.

You are also using only statistical performance data in your argument that it would be "almost impossible" that the previous gen would have beaten the current one. Car and Driver weighs many factors to determine the winner of their comparison tests and it was pretty clear from the article that they didn't think that the F30 had the same steering and handling satisfaction than the E90. It's not just about acceleration.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:22 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by nofuture View Post
They just repeat talking points. Paying attention to reviews is waste of time, they are written by jaded writers who keep writing the same stuff over and over.
We may talk mucho about 0-60 numbers etc etc, in real world majority of people do not care.

Therefore, go to dealership and test drive the thing if you like it you buy it if you do not you do then move on.

Form your own opinion with information from the reviews (if you think they provide value) but do not rely on them as 100% source of know it all.

I will give you the best example about the fact that reviewers out of touch with real world. This forum is full of posts of people asking for opinion/reviews on different packages and how technology works, etc, etc.

Every single review I have read so far on F30 did not do a dicent coverage of those areas and those which did (CNET) where full of errors.
I would trust opinions and reviews of people on this forum because after driving my F30 for over a month by opinion/review matches everybody else.
It's funny to me that when a BMW wins a comparison that everyone makes posts and comments how it destroys the competition, yet when a magazine provides a little of negative feedback then the reviewers have no clue what they are talking about.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:23 AM
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I did read the article, but only skimmed it. Where did I read it? At the local dealership where I was test driving the F30. I have test driven the E90 also (last year). Admittedly, 1 hour test drives don't tell the full story but I thought that the F30 had more enjoyable driving dynamics and a more comfortable cockpit than the outgoing car.

C&D care very little about interior ergonomics, interior materials quality, etc. They don't own the cars and drive them day to day week after week other than their long term test cars.

If you want a good review from an actual BMW enthusiast who owns an E90, go look at the Youtube review of the F30 from the Auto Spies founder Agent 001. He has owned the last three versions of the 3-series sedan and he says that the F30 is better in pretty much every way.

I understand that because C&D has been a long time champion of BMW that people feel a need to defend C&D criticism, but I feel justified doing so, having slogged through literally hundreds (if not thousands) of C&D reviews, by the same staff, over a decade+ of being a subscriber. I'm as entitled to my opinion of their journalism as you are.

Last edited by voip-ninja; 03-30-2012 at 09:25 AM.
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  #17  
Old 03-30-2012, 09:23 AM
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That's a cheap shot. Did you even read the article? Car and Driver is not the only enthusiast magazine (or online publication) who decries the fact that cars get bigger and heavier every model change, pretty much all of them do, along with many, many enthusiasts. Electrical steering is also pissing off many automotive journalists and enthusiasts because, from everything I've read, it significantly numbed the steering in the current 5 Series and they were dreading that the unique steering feel and feedback of the 3 Series would be gone.

You are also using only statistical performance data in your argument that it would be "almost impossible" that the previous gen would have beaten the current one. Car and Driver weighs many factors to determine the winner of their comparison tests and it was pretty clear from the article that they didn't think that the F30 had the same steering and handling satisfaction than the E90. It's not just about acceleration.
Well put sir.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
I used to be an avid reader of C&D and have about 10 years of rags sitting in my basement. However, increasingly I am just annoyed reading their reviews. Perhaps it is because what is important to them is less important to me (handling at a racetrack circuit) and what is completely irrelevant to them (interior comfort, features) are increasingly important to me.
So because youve changed your priorities in what you want in a car you're pissed off at Car and Driver because they don't place the same increasing emphasis on interior comfort and features that are increasingly important to you. They're still an enthusiast magazine, maybe you aren't an enthusiast anymore, which is no fault of theirs. Too bad that the AARP magazine doesn't do car reviews or you could settle for Motor Trend.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:30 AM
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So because youve changed your priorities in what you want in a car you're pissed off at Car and Driver because they don't place the same increasing emphasis on interior comfort and features that are increasingly important to you. They're still an enthusiast magazine, maybe you aren't an enthusiast anymore, which is no fault of theirs. Too bad that the AARP magazine doesn't do car reviews or you could settle for Motor Trend.
Wow, classy retort.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:31 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
I did read the article, but only skimmed it. Where did I read it? At the local dealership where I was test driving the F30. I have test driven the E90 also (last year). Admittedly, 1 hour test drives don't tell the full story but I thought that the F30 had more enjoyable driving dynamics and a more comfortable cockpit than the outgoing car.

C&D care very little about interior ergonomics, interior materials quality, etc. They don't own the cars and drive them day to day week after week other than their long term test cars.

If you want a good review from an actual BMW enthusiast who owns an E90, go look at the Youtube review of the F30 from the Auto Spies founder Agent 001. He has owned the last three versions of the 3-series sedan and he says that the F30 is better in pretty much every way.

I understand that because C&D has been a long time champion of BMW that people feel a need to defend C&D criticism, but I feel justified doing so, having slogged through literally hundreds (if not thousands) of C&D reviews, by the same staff, over a decade+ of being a subscriber. I'm as entitled to my opinion of their journalism as you are.
Insideline shared the same opinion as C/D:

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-seri...and-video.html

"What Needs Work:
Doesn't handle, steer or stop as well as its predecessor"

Listen, I drive the E90 and I love everything about it. I also drove a E46 330 on multiple occasions and I hate to admit it but the E46 provided better driving dynamics and experience.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
Insideline shared the same opinion as C/D:

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-seri...and-video.html

"What Needs Work:
Doesn't handle, steer or stop as well as its predecessor"

Listen, I drive the E90 and I love everything about it. I also drove a E46 330 on multiple occasions and I hate to admit it but the E46 provided better driving dynamics and experience.
Well at least you pointed out that they also thought the previous than E90 generation also had better handling.

I can appreciate that C&D is an "enthusiast" oriented magazine... I understand that people who read it want to know which car is going to give them maximum satisfaction if they are attacking the twisties or attending a track day event.

However, most of us drive these cars in the real world, so a bit of real world tempering would be a nice thing to see in their reviews.

The bottom line is that they've bitched and moaned about everything that's changed on cars since the mid 90's which, to them, was the pinnacle of automotive achievement. It's like listening to guys who grew up in the 60's talking about how all music since the Beatles split up sucks.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:43 AM
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Wow, classy retort.
That's the best that you've got??!!

We get it, you don't like Car and Driver any more, but apparently you feel the need to go out of your way to bash them. I've had a subscription to both Car and Driver and Road & Track since high school (and that's been a few years) and I still like both of them. But I fail to see why you'd bash an enthusiast magazine in an enthusiast forum just because they don't place the same emphasis on comfort and features that you now do.
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Last edited by SD Z4MR; 03-30-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Well at least you pointed out that they also thought the previous than E90 generation also had better handling.

I can appreciate that C&D is an "enthusiast" oriented magazine... I understand that people who read it want to know which car is going to give them maximum satisfaction if they are attacking the twisties or attending a track day event.

However, most of us drive these cars in the real world, so a bit of real world tempering would be a nice thing to see in their reviews.

The bottom line is that they've bitched and moaned about everything that's changed on cars since the mid 90's which, to them, was the pinnacle of automotive achievement. It's like listening to guys who grew up in the 60's talking about how all music since the Beatles split up sucks.
But this is THE 3 series, driving dynamics made this car what it is today. I could of bought a G37 or a IS350 which provide more power and features for the money but lack the driving precision of the 3 series.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by nofuture View Post
They just repeat talking points. Paying attention to reviews is waste of time, they are written by jaded writers who keep writing the same stuff over and over.
We may talk mucho about 0-60 numbers etc etc, in real world majority of people do not care.

Therefore, go to dealership and test drive the thing if you like it you buy it if you do not you do then move on.

Form your own opinion with information from the reviews (if you think they provide value) but do not rely on them as 100% source of know it all.

I will give you the best example about the fact that reviewers out of touch with real world. This forum is full of posts of people asking for opinion/reviews on different packages and how technology works, etc, etc.

Every single review I have read so far on F30 did not do a dicent coverage of those areas and those which did (CNET) where full of errors.
I would trust opinions and reviews of people on this forum because after driving my F30 for over a month by opinion/review matches everybody else.
Hey nofuture you stole my post!!!

This is almost word-for-word what I was going to post!

I think magazine reviews are entertaining, and I do like reading C&D, but as for info/likes/dislikes this forum is much more useful to me.

Also, the braking numbers C&D got are worrying but in Motor Trend's Group Test the F30's braking distance is virtually top of the class...
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:47 AM
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But this is THE 3 series, driving dynamics made this car what it is today. I could of bought a G37 or a IS350 which provide more power and features for the money but lack the driving precision of the 3 series.
Valid point and fair enough. Frankly, I don't know why I've even put the energy in to this. I cancelled my subscription to C&D for a reason, I got tired of the same old fat-guy reviewers making the same comments about the same cars over and over again. I'll leave it to the "real" enthusiasts to provide feedback on what C&D thought in their comparo.
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