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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 03-30-2012, 09:48 AM
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voip-ninja voip-ninja is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD 335is View Post
That's the best that you've got??!!

We get it, you don't like Car and Driver any more, but apparently you feel the need to bash to go out of your way to bash them. I've had a subscription to both Car and Driver and Road & Track since high school (and that's been a few years) and I still like both of them. But I fail to see why you'd bash an enthusiast magazine in an enthusiast forum just because they don't place the same emphasis on comfort and features that you now do.
So now I'm bashing on them? Wow. Ya know what, we'll just agree to disagree and let you guys who find C&D to be the authority on these cars proceed with this discussion. Adios.
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  #27  
Old 03-30-2012, 09:50 AM
sr5959 sr5959 is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Hmmm, C&D had no problem when the A4, IS350 and the C-class got bigger. BMW does need to work on their electric steering, steering and handling is BMW's bread and butter, the new electric steering just doesnt feel as good as the E90's steering.
I have to agree on this point, F30 has very little road feel through the steering.
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  #28  
Old 03-30-2012, 10:28 AM
Bimmer3oi Bimmer3oi is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
It's funny to me that when a BMW wins a comparison that everyone makes posts and comments how it destroys the competition, yet when a magazine provides a little of negative feedback then the reviewers have no clue what they are talking about.
lol....so true
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  #29  
Old 03-30-2012, 10:28 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Whatever works for you. If performance was all you cared about you should have bought a Subaru WRX or a Mitsubishi Evo.
And if you want a comfortable car, go buy a Lexus
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  #30  
Old 03-30-2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by stampchez View Post
It doesn't seem very bright of BMW to keep rolling out these test cars to the magazines with crummy tires.
That was one thing I noticed about the F30 335i I test drove a couple weeks ago. The car had the Sport Line but it came with those wimpy looking Pirelli tires. It seems almost unthinkable that BMW would put these kinds of tires on the "Sport" version and I'm sure proper summer tires would go a long way towards making the car feel better. The 70-0 braking distance they measured on the 328i is embarrassingly long. Even Camrys stop shorter than that.
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  #31  
Old 03-30-2012, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
I used to be an avid reader of C&D and have about 10 years of rags sitting in my basement. However, increasingly I am just annoyed reading their reviews. Perhaps it is because what is important to them is less important to me (handling at a racetrack circuit) and what is completely irrelevant to them (interior comfort, features) are increasingly important to me.
Like others have said, C&D is an enthusiast magazine, not Consumer Reports. The bottom line for me is that BMWs are expensive cars and have up until now been worth the extra cost because they offered unmatched driving dynamics compared to everything else. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. The outcome of this C&D comparo could very well be different once Lexus and Infiniti release the new IS and G. C&D had no problem ranking the F10 5er in 3rd place in a similar recent comparo.
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  #32  
Old 03-30-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AK View Post
That was one thing I noticed about the F30 335i I test drove a couple weeks ago. The car had the Sport Line but it came with those wimpy looking Pirelli tires. It seems almost unthinkable that BMW would put these kinds of tires on the "Sport" version and I'm sure proper summer tires would go a long way towards making the car feel better. The 70-0 braking distance they measured on the 328i is embarrassingly long. Even Camrys stop shorter than that.
I am very happy with my 19 in Bridgestone S001s but some of the other OEM tires sound like they have no business being on a sport package car.
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  #33  
Old 03-30-2012, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
But this is THE 3 series, driving dynamics made this car what it is today. I could of bought a G37 or a IS350 which provide more power and features for the money but lack the driving precision of the 3 series.
For the record, here are the shockers in the comparo;

1. The engine NVH for the 328i was worse than the Audi.... wait; it is the WORST OF THE GROUP at 7/10.... all others were 8 and above. This confirms my initial impression of the N20 - *I didn't like it*.

2. Chassis performance is the WORST.

3. Steering feel is the 2nd worst.

4. A G25 is rated more fun-to-drive (and top pick in this regard).

Quote:
Originally Posted by C&D 05/2012
Could the previous 3-series have beaten this Audi? Probably. But we'd wager that the old 3-series might also have beaten the new 3-series.
I'll keep my beloved E90 for a while...
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Last edited by Saintor; 03-30-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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  #34  
Old 03-30-2012, 03:58 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
For the record, here are the shockers in the comparo;

1. The engine NVH for the 328i was worse than the Audi.... wait; it is the WORST OF THE GROUP at 7/10.... all others were 8 and above. This confirms my initial impression of the N20 - *I didn't like it*.

2. Chassis performance is the WORST.

3. Steering feel is the 2nd worst.

4. A G25 is rated more fun-to-drive (and top pick in this regard).



I'll keep my beloved E90 for a while...
What scares me the most is that C/D is usually dead-on with their reviews.
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  #35  
Old 03-30-2012, 04:50 PM
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I purchased e90 because of
* RWD
* 50%\50%
* handling
* lower than competition weight
* nice MT
that were unmatched in sedan world at the time (except Mazda RX8, but it's not true sedan)

Luxury qualities? No. I6? I'd own BMW3 with I4 with no issues. Not sure what all the fuss around I6 is. It's not much smoother than I4 engines I owned.

I needed something like 4 door Honda S2000... and while you can't compare these two, e90 delivers as much as possible. There simply is no sedan that delivers as much as e90 for me.

Because of that I tolerate high maintenance cost, lower that competition reliability, RFT, no spare tire, and time bombs like electric water pump.

If BMW looses these qualities... so there isn't much difference with competitors.... design wise I'd prefer Mercedes C class much more. reliability is much better in G37...

Once Honda made similar move and instead of driver oriented cars like Si, Integra, Prelude switched into Toyota cloning path. Why? If I need Toyota - I'll buy Toyota.
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  #36  
Old 03-30-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Any time a car gets bigger C&D whines about it. They should be happy a 6MT is even still available on the damn thing... and considering that the outgoing 2011 car had less power, less torque, weighed more, etc, it's almost impossible that it would have beaten the new one.

Oh ya, electric steering, that's sure to piss them off too.
Not sure how the outgoing 328i weighed more when the F30 clearly weighs more than the e90 (regardless of BMW's early press clippings/lies).

The old one in subjective feel drove better. That has nothing to do with acceleration. An e46 was often slower than an e90 too, and yet a better car in pretty much every way.
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  #37  
Old 03-30-2012, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by blueguydotcom View Post
An e46 was often slower than an e90 too, and yet a better car in pretty much every way.
Having owned both for 3+ years each, I *disagree*. E46 were a better BMW (more emotionally involving), E90 is a better athlete specially for handling, accuracy and poise.
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  #38  
Old 03-31-2012, 07:27 AM
accel accel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Having owned both for 3+ years each, I *disagree*. E46 were a better BMW (more emotionally involving), E90 is a better athlete specially for handling, accuracy and poise.
back in 2010 I cross shopped e46 zhp vs e90 328i zsp, MT. My impressions agree with your statement.

I decided to go with e90, 'cause it just felt "sportier". Also my decision was impacted by positive C&D reviews of e90.

What's happening in this thread is normal - e90 owners are happy for their investment, f30 owners will protect their investment. So the arguments will never stop.0
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  #39  
Old 03-31-2012, 02:07 PM
calmwinds calmwinds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accel View Post
back in 2010 I cross shopped e46 zhp vs e90 328i zsp, MT. My impressions agree with your statement.

I decided to go with e90, 'cause it just felt "sportier". Also my decision was impacted by positive C&D reviews of e90.

What's happening in this thread is normal - e90 owners are happy for their investment, f30 owners will protect their investment. So the arguments will never stop.0
spot on. more accurately though, e90 owners will try to justify their purchase of the e90 by finding faults in the f30. Same thing will most likely happen with the f30 owners when the 7th gen comes out. But so far, f30 seems much much better than the e90 during its launch.
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  #40  
Old 03-31-2012, 02:10 PM
calmwinds calmwinds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
If you want reviews on interior comfort or features, you need to read consumer report. I dont know about you, I bought my BMW because of its performance. If I want interior comfort or features, there are other cars that lost less and they are better in those areas than BMW.
If you want performance, there are also other cars out there that cost less and they are better in those areas than BMW
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  #41  
Old 03-31-2012, 03:19 PM
Decelerate Decelerate is offline
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The brake distance for the 328 is disturbing to say the least. Hopefully the 335 doesn't have the same issue.
I just don't understand how BMW can get away with a sports sedan that brakes worse than an SUV...
Kind of tarnishes the notion of "the ultimate driving machine", and I was really looking forward to a test drive next week.
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  #42  
Old 03-31-2012, 05:33 PM
stampchez stampchez is offline
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Originally Posted by Decelerate View Post
The brake distance for the 328 is disturbing to say the least. Hopefully the 335 doesn't have the same issue.
I just don't understand how BMW can get away with a sports sedan that brakes worse than an SUV...
Kind of tarnishes the notion of "the ultimate driving machine", and I was really looking forward to a test drive next week.
C&D got 164 feet with its 335.

tires, tires, tires
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  #43  
Old 03-31-2012, 05:57 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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I think C&D's point was, what set the 3 apart from its competitors, the N/A I6 and the steering feel, are now lost, so the 3 must compete in other areas, such as comfort, interior and braking. And in those areas the 3 does not hold a distinctive advantage.

What the N20 engine does gain is its torque and 0-60 time over previous 3 generations. Is this enough to compensate for the loss of the smooth I6 and the unique steering feel?

I don't think most new 3 drivers will even understand the above arguments made by C&D, if they had been driving Lexus, Audi or MB before.
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  #44  
Old 03-31-2012, 07:12 PM
jeffjaz jeffjaz is offline
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I've read the comparos in Car and Driver and Motortrend and find it interesting that while the bottom line is the same in each - 328i wins - they have significantly differing comments. MT is much more effusive in their praise of the new 3er and claims it blew away the competition. The rank order of other vehicles in the two tests also varies quite a bit. I suppose to each his own.
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  #45  
Old 03-31-2012, 08:01 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Originally Posted by calmwinds View Post
spot on. more accurately though, e90 owners will try to justify their purchase of the e90 by finding faults in the f30. Same thing will most likely happen with the f30 owners when the 7th gen comes out. But so far, f30 seems much much better than the e90 during its launch.
This same thing happens with virtually every new iteration of all BMWs. The E46 guys are still lamenting the move onward to the E9x.
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  #46  
Old 04-01-2012, 06:03 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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For all of you bashing the F20 based on the C and D article, here is exactly what they said: "Start the new turbo 4 cold, and its clicking and pulsing direct injectors make it sound, from the outside anyway, like you've fired a diesel. Once warm, the engine quiets down and excellent sound deadening keeps the clatter from approaching the driver's eardrums. It's 40-decibel idle is whisper quiet. Accelerate, and the 328i jets from 0-60 in 5.6 seconds, tying the Audi as the quickest non-Volvo of the test. A tiny bit of 4 cylinder coarseness asserts itself, but the engine revs almost as smoothly as the outgoing NA six. With 240 hp and 255 pound-feet of torque, the turbo four easily surpasses that old six's output. Power is delivered evenly from just off of idle all the way to the 7000 rpm redline. Not that the BMW is the only car here that shifted at redline. The 328i's new 8 speed auto-similar in design to the A4's auto-was deemed the best applied transmission in the test. Even after hammering the 2.0 liter for 300 miles, it returned the best fuel economy of the bunch-21 mpg."

In the test, it's powertrain rating won the test. This sounds like to me a great little engine that is smooth, flexible, fast and efficient. The NVH was 1 point behind the rest but it was way more flexible than the Audi 4 cylinder.
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  #47  
Old 04-01-2012, 07:28 PM
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I have no doubt it's great car but I am glad to have my 335d. Same fuel efficiency with the handling we expect. I just hope that by the time my 2010 is ready to be replaced, the diesel version of the F30 makes it over here.
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  #48  
Old 04-01-2012, 08:59 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Any time a car gets bigger C&D whines about it. They should be happy a 6MT is even still available on the damn thing... and considering that the outgoing 2011 car had less power, less torque, weighed more, etc, it's almost impossible that it would have beaten the new one.

Oh ya, electric steering, that's sure to piss them off too.
I doubt anyone will feel the difference in the claimed 50 lb. reduction in the new 3 series, let alone make any difference in seat of the pants handling or performance.
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  #49  
Old 04-01-2012, 09:18 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I doubt anyone will feel the difference in the claimed 50 lb. reduction in the new 3 series, let alone make any difference in seat of the pants handling or performance.
Except the real world F30 weight seemed to be more than the similarly equipped E90.

On a side note, did C&D say the "old" A4 achieved 0-60 in 5.6s, equaled to the F30? If so I don't think it is good news, not to mention Volvo was even faster.

Last edited by dtc100; 04-01-2012 at 09:20 PM.
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  #50  
Old 04-01-2012, 09:50 PM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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must be a typo, i have seeen over 10 tests on the a4 and none are faster than 5.9, most are mid 6's
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